A political solution for Kashmir and lasting peace for India and Pakistan

[Varunastra]

You get secured peaceful western borders with Khalistan part of history. Road access to Afghanistan & Central Asia to boost trade n economy. Can negotiate eastern borders with China fully knowing that Pakistan is out of equation.

Alternately you got a low level insurgency in Kashmir which can flare up anytime. A hostile Afghanistan under Pak/China influence which is a huge security risk. A possible revival of khalistan. Co-ordinated Pak/China miliyary pressure on borders are few headaches.

I'm sure Indian Stretegic planners are fully aware of the risks & how they plan their next move is yet to be seen. The key is to understand that India is no Israel & their Israeli inspired actions in Kashmir will have implications.

Same can be said for Pakistan right? You can get peace, trade and all so just give up on Kashmir?

 

[SIPRA]

Aseen naeen manday tuyadi gull
G wich lae lau apna hull

 

[adelphi]

Same can be said for Pakistan right? You can get peace, trade and all so just give up on Kashmir?

Maybe after 911 but roles have since changed. I'd like to know the benefits.

 

[Maula Jatt]

honestly
the day Kashmiris start feeling Indian, and not only stop the separatism but call themselves as Indians, patriotic ones
support in Pakistan will slowly die down, cause rn we owe it to Kashmiris that when they are feeling oppressed we do something, anything but we feel it as a collective national responsibility to do so

and nothing would stop it unless Kashmiris themselves say they don't want separation, they are Indians and are not facing oppression

cause no nation wants to fight for someone who itself isn't interested in a fight - case in point Indian Muslims

The best solution from Indian pov is make the Kashmiris feel Indians, but if you are failing to do so for 70 odd years
what's our hope for next 70 years?

 

[adelphi]

I humbly state that I have a better idea to achieve the items in the first paragraph and avoid the items in second paragraph if you read the thread OP. A progressive political and social beginning for both India and Pakistan. A common progressiveness.

I've been following the thread & believe Mush formula was the right way to move forward however modi led BJP has pushed itself & the whole process into a corner where it will be difficult for both parties to re-approach without face saving measures.

 

[jamahir]

I've been following the thread

Thank you.

& believe Mush formula was the right way to move forward

Yes his formula was good then and is good even now if both parties do not wish to radically change their political systems ATM.

however modi led BJP has pushed itself & the whole process into a corner where it will be difficult for both parties to re-approach without face saving measures.

Agreed.

But what is Imran's view on Mushy's formula ?

 

[adelphi]

But what is Imran's view on Mushy's formula ?

I've no idea but it's likely that he won't engage without restoration of 371 which might not be possible for BJP led India. It will be a big embarrassment if they choose to do so.
The situation is still evolving due to Afghanistan. Pakistan no longer feels encircled. Regional powers Russia/China seem comfortable with Taliban. The equation has changed for India & price has gone up. It can feel strategically isolated in the region.
China would like assurances from India regarding CPEC & perhaps withdrawal from Quad. Russian expectation would be larger share of defence deals & less US influence.
And finally there's Pakistan, the trouble maker, which can't be trusted.
These are genuine concerns which has caused alarms in India & it has every right to feel abandoned by US & western allies.
I'm waiting to see Indian response. Approaching Taliban last week for talks was the first right step.

 

[DJ_Viper]

A political solution for Kashmir and lasting peace for India and Pakistan
Written by: Jamahir
Category cloud: Opinion, analysis
​

The little I know, or have heard, is that this issue has been settled behind the scenes. Both sides keep their administered regions as is. That's when the no war pact came into existence too. After a few years, they will let the people of Kashmir come and go like semi-open borders and hopefully, the trade will start from other routes too. Not sure what's still left in terms of a "solution".

 

[Naofumi]

Not sure what's still left in terms of a "solution".

It benefits jingoists on both sides to never declare a solution.

 

[Kamikaze Pilot]

A political solution for Kashmir and lasting peace for India and Pakistan
Written by: Jamahir
Category cloud: Opinion, analysis
​

India and Pakistan need to settle the long, sad but frankly immature dispute over Kashmir once and for all. Peacefully and politically. Both have similar social, economic and political problems so any nuanced and generic solution for one country can also be used by the other country. The prescribed solution by the UNO is impractical. As it involves, as far as I understand, India withdrawing military units stationed in India-administered Kashmir and then arranging for a plebiscite there while also accepting the UNO as a mediator. But the Indian Establishment believes, as also its foreign allies, that India-administered Kashmir is primarily a matter internal to India but since Pakistan cannot be wished away the matter should involve both countries settling the matter between themselves, peacefully and politically. But any such settlement should benefit both the countries immediately and in the long term.

Therefore I present one solution as below. The solution is based on Muammar Gaddafi's solution for Kashmir to which I have added some bits.

1. Both countries should adopt the same Progressive political system. Two separate, independent republics but with the same political system, much like what pre-2003 Iraq and Syria were with their same Ba'athist systems. The Progressive political system can be the Direct Democracy Socialism system that governed Libya until the 2011 war. Readers can refer to these pages to understand how this system works. This system is called the Third Universal Theory aka Jamahiriya theory. In India, a form of Direct Democracy called Swaraj is being implemented in Delhi by the ruling AAP party and is also being forwarded by the Swaraj Abhiyan movement and there is no reason why it cannot be extended to Pakistan as well.

2. Let Indian-administered Kashmir and Pakistani-administered Kashmir remain with their respective countries.

3. Convert the LoC into an International Border that is accessible for trade, tourism and family visits.

All this will make the separatists in India-administered Kashmir to understand that their desire to join Pakistan-administered Kashmir is unnecessary because both countries will have become the same, politically.

Furthermore, with separatist militancy reduced in Indian-administered Kashmir, what will remain is regressive religious militancy or activism which can be controlled and removed with social support by progressives among the local population. The side effect will also be a drastic removal of the current military force which will lead to more goodwill for the peace project.

I speak of the troubles and concerns of Muslims in Indian Kashmir and I will also speak of the troubles and concerns of the Kashmiri Pundit refugees. There must be something like Nelson Mandela's Truth and Reconciliation Commission. I would like the refugee Kashmiri Pandits to be allowed to return back to the Valley.

The next step would be resumption of the Aman Ki Asha peace mission as well as resumption of food and clothing festivals to be organized in both countries.

If not for such a solution, how long would the Establishments of India and Pakistan keep up with this cross-border hate? For another 50 years? 100? Until a reformed UNO decides to send in a military arbitrator force? And would the people of both countries not like the money and other resources spent by their respective militaries in positioning against each other to be spent on making each others countries a welfare state where there are things like high quality free medical system like in Cuba?

An important point is that the given solution will not only benefit the Kashmiri's but also will bring progress to India and Pakistan - socially, economically and politically.

Lastly, to extend a point about direct democracy socialism, It worked in Libya and it is being implemented in Venezuela ( the consejos comunales - communal councils ). Two different kinds of countries, ethnically and geographically. No reason why India and Pakistan cannot adopt the system given the fact that both countries have so much in common. And just Direct Democracy without the socialism part has been the system in Switzerland for long.

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Disclaimer: The post only represents writer's own point of views. The post do not represent point of views of Pakistan Defence management. Pakistan Defence Team will not be responsible for disagreements.
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Credits: The post is written by Jamahir, India. The proof reading and some other editing has been done by Think Tank Analyst, Forcetrip. The final formatting, editing and picture uploading is done by Slav Defence., Think Tank Vice Chairman.

If you are so intelligent and Indians are so dumb, why are you unable to defeat India despite India's powerful enemies like Pakistan, China, Bangladesh and Western countries like US, UK and Denmark and India's numerous internal fault lines like insurgencies in Kashmir, Punjab, North East and naxal affected states? Regarding West, you would deny but the classified information is that US, UK and Denmark are hostile countries that create problems for India. If you state numbers, than it would be a lame excuse. After all you (Indian Muslims) claim to have superior intelligence. British numbered only few lakhs yet they ruled entire subcontinent. And here Indian Muslims number at least 15 crores.

- PRTP GWD

 

[jamahir]

If you are so intelligent and Indians are so dumb, why are you unable to defeat India despite India's powerful enemies like Pakistan, China, Bangladesh and Western countries like US, UK and Denmark and India's numerous internal fault lines like insurgencies in Kashmir, Punjab, North East and naxal affected states? Regarding West, you would deny but the classified information is that US, UK and Denmark are hostile countries that create problems for India. If you state numbers, than it would be a lame excuse. After all you (Indian Muslims) claim to have superior intelligence. British numbered only few lakhs yet they ruled entire subcontinent. And here Indian Muslims number at least 15 crores.

- PRTP GWD

Please see my reply in the Karachi students thread.

 

[Shehryar Ashraf]

there is no political solution for this problem.
all possibilities to resolve it peacefully ended with the Deaths of Jinnah, Mountbatten & Nehru.
the UN is too ineffective an organization, very easy to veto any resolution that can do anything.

neither side is going to back down for it would be political suicide for either side.

There is only one way it ends, you know it ,I know it.
just the date and time needs to be formalized.

 

[Chris Logan]

the only way is Independence for Kashmir.

 

[Fireurimagination]

Kashmir issue will be fully resolved only under 3 circumstances:

1. India and Pakistan both agree to make LOC as IB
2. In a war India is defeated decisively by China and Pakistan combined and dis-integrates
3. In a war Pakistan is defeated decisively by India or US + allies (incase of any terror attack on US soil traced back to Pak) and dis-integrates

In option 2 and 3, there is also a nuclear angle and MAD scenario

 

[MH.Yang]

In fact, China does not care about the resources in Ladakh, and Ladakh also has no resources, but China needs to ensure the security of CEPC.
If Kashmir can be independent, then China and India will have no disputed territory, because southern Tibet can be negotiated.
As long as the security of CEPC is guaranteed, China and India can have a new diplomatic relationship.
CEPC is China's core interest. If India can't make China feel safe, China will have no choice.