A NEW AIRCRAFT FOR PAF

[MastanKhan]

Before the 1965 war, when plans were being made, a Pakistani Major General was addressing his planners. When you make your plans, remember, he said, that one Pakistani soldier equals seven Indians. The Chief of Staff, General Musa, was present in the room and could not take it any more. He strode up, shouldered the Major General aside and said, Ten, not seven, ten.

plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose

Hi,

Joe---what is wrong with that---. It has been done hundreds of time over thousands of years of war by leaders & generals for pumping up their soldiers who are to go out to fight a much larger enemy.

What do you think the commander at Thermopyle told his 300 soldiers fighting against 7000 persians----!

You talking like this is the first time in history those words were uttered.

 

[RAMPAGE]

Hi,

Joe---what is wrong with that---. It has been done hundreds of time over thousands of years of war by leaders & generals for pumping up their soldiers who are to go out to fight a much larger enemy.

What do you think the commander at Thermopyle told his 300 soldiers fighting against 7000 persians----!

You talking like this is the first time in history those words were uttered.

But in this case, It was not the soldiers being pumped up.

 

[MastanKhan]

a why does this provocation continue? Do these people actually like fighting for survival?

Sir,

There is no continuation of provocation since 2002----.

But I think that it should change---starting with the ouster of Nawaz Sharif---.

But in this case, It was not the soldiers being pumped up.

Hi,

So what the fck is the big deal---have you never attended a corporate meeting where managers and executives get pumped up by the superiors and talk about the opponent companies as if they are mongrels---.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Hi,

Joe---what is wrong with that---. It has been done hundreds of time over thousands of years of war by leaders & generals for pumping up their soldiers who are to go out to fight a much larger enemy.

What do you think the commander at Thermopyle told his 300 soldiers fighting against 7000 persians----!

You talking like this is the first time in history those words were uttered.

He told them, as far as the records go, to die like Spartans. He never held out any illusions about their beating the horde in front.

There was a similar incident at Saragarhi. At no stage did the Sikhs convey that they thought that they were equal to a multiple of the swarming Afghans outside. They fought for honour and died where they stood. The last man to die was the signaller, whose last signal was for permission to shut down his heliograph and take up his rifle. His body was found afterwards with multiple injuries.

What I responded to stank of that same ethno-religious superiority. If anyone in this day and age believes in that as a reality, as the poster seems to have done, I can only respond with amused astonishment.

 

[Athen]

Armed Forces

great video but seriously very bad music does not sync with video!!

 

[RAMPAGE]

Sir,

There is no continuation of provocation since 2002----.

But I think that it should change---starting with the ouster of Nawaz Sharif---.



Hi,

So what the fck is the big deal---have you never attended a corporate meeting where managers and executives get pumped up by the superiors and talk about the opponent companies as if they are mongrels---.

Sir,

You are a fool. That much is evident from your recent comments and your signature. There is no putting it lightly.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Sir,

There is no continuation of provocation since 2002----.

But I think that it should change---starting with the ouster of Nawaz Sharif---.



Hi,

So what the fck is the big deal---have you never attended a corporate meeting where managers and executives get pumped up by the superiors and talk about the opponent companies as if they are mongrels---.

Chief,

I say this as a genuine friend of Pakistan, but as a friend who is losing hope, every day: the perspective is horribly different from where I stand. The four auxiliary divisions of the Pakistan Army,

• the Hizb ul Mujahideen,
• the Jaish e Mohammed,
• the Harkat e Mujahideen and
• the Lashkar e Taiba

flourished throughout this period. Attacks continued, in enervated form, throughout this period, without let-up.

What did you have in mind when you said that there was no continuation of provocation after 2002? We did not see any break.

 

[C130]

OMG....too much exaggeration....
DO NOT compare PAF's professionalism with IAF....just give them (IAF) F-16s and you will see that they will have the same issues with it as they have with Su30s.
Furthermore if both have same machines, then the man-behind the machine decides the outcome. so if you are saying SU30 mki upgraded = SU35 (which i highly doubt since airframes are different but just for the sake of argument) PAF will have both better availability and readiness. Furthermore, 5 billions a year means 50 Su35s or similar and for 5 years means 250 (SU35s + 5th gen A/C).
I'm sure once infrastructure is in place for CPEC and trade starts, setting 10 USB for PAF won't be a big problem and including Russia into CPEC can bring more goodies that may surprise everyone.

I don't doubt Pakistan ability to operate and maintain the Su-35, but I do doubt Russia ability to supply parts for these Su-35 in a timely manner and for a fair price.

 

[RAMPAGE]

Chief,

I say this as a genuine friend of Pakistan, but as a friend who is losing hope, every day: the perspective is horribly different from where I stand. The four auxiliary divisions of the Pakistan Army,

• the Hizb ul Mujahideen,
• the Jaish e Mohammed,
• the Harkat e Mujahideen and
• the Lashkar e Taiba

flourished throughout this period. Attacks continued, in enervated form, throughout this period, without let-up.

What did you have in mind when you said that there was no continuation of provocation after 2002? We did not see any break.

Nothing at all and that's the point. I will ask you and the senior members to not entertain him any further. His whimsical and anarchist notions seem to have a bad effect on our more impressionable members.

 

[YeBeWarned]

Chief,

I say this as a genuine friend of Pakistan, but as a friend who is losing hope, every day: the perspective is horribly different from where I stand. The four auxiliary divisions of the Pakistan Army,

• the Hizb ul Mujahideen,
• the Jaish e Mohammed,
• the Harkat e Mujahideen and
• the Lashkar e Taiba

flourished throughout this period. Attacks continued, in enervated form, throughout this period, without let-up.

What did you have in mind when you said that there was no continuation of provocation after 2002? We did not see any break.

Ok so first , i know you did not refer this Post to me ... but i want to put my input here , that look all those Organizations are headache for not just India but Pakistan as well , and its not just Pakistan Specific but US , USSR has been doing this when both Pakistan and India are teenagers ..

now for the Continuation of the Attacks , if you see in just in Prospectus of that few fidayeen Attack Indians cities than yeah, but if you Directly blaming the Pakistan Army or State than there is a Difference , cause what India claim is a Allegation not a Proven FACT ..

Both countries is Actively Involved in this Proxy War , we can't just single out Pakistan .. after all we have Kulbhoshan Yadev for a reason .
---------

and the Theory of 1 Muslim = 10 Kaffir , for religious sake if i agree to this but i doubt there is a Single Muslim in whole of Pakistan who is Following the Islam as it was Described by the Prophet Himself , or his Companions lived .. we are some " Kaam Chalao Muslims " whatever suites us , we follow whatever does not , we just put it aside by Sayings that is between us and Allah

I don't doubt Pakistan ability to operate and maintain the Su-35, but I do doubt Russia ability to supply parts for these Su-35 in a timely manner and for a fair price.

We can get it from China ... Since they recently Bought 24 Su-35's and very soon they will be producing Spare parts in home .. so i don't think Spare Parts will be a problem , and even if Indians Push Russian to that Extent , than i guess backdoor is always a way for such things .. Remember we got some spare Parts from Israel haha i means Seriously ISRAEL

 

[Joe Shearer]

Ok so first , i know you did not refer this Post to me ... but i want to put my input here , that look all those Organizations are headache for not just India but Pakistan as well , and its not just Pakistan Specific but US , USSR has been doing this when both Pakistan and India are teenagers ..

now for the Continuation of the Attacks , if you see in just in Prospectus of that few fidayeen Attack Indians cities than yeah, but if you Directly blaming the Pakistan Army or State than there is a Difference , cause what India claim is a Allegation not a Proven FACT ..

Both countries is Actively Involved in this Proxy War , we can't just single out Pakistan .. after all we have Kulbhoshan Yadev for a reason

Excellent post. Read my response here as a "Yes, but.......

First, about directly blaming the Pakistan Army or the Pakistan State. No, no direct blame, but look at this:

• Until Pakistan became a key ally in the War on Terrorism, the US Secretary of State included Pakistan on the 1993 list of countries which repeatedly provide support for acts of international terrorism. In fact, many consider that Pakistan has been playing both sides in the fight against terror, on the one hand, pretending to help curtail terrorist activities while on the other, stoking it. Even the noted Pakistani journalist Ahmed Rashid has accused Pakistan's ISI of providing help to the Taliban, a statement echoed by many, including author Ted Galen Carpenter, who states that Pakistan has "assisted rebel forces in Kashmir even though those groups have committed terrorist acts against civilians".
• According to the author Daniel Byman, "Pakistan is probably today's most active sponsor of terrorism."writing in an article published by The Australian stated, "following the terror massacres in Mumbai, Pakistan may now be the single biggest state sponsor of terrorism, beyond even Iran, yet it has never been listed by the US State Department as a state sponsor of terrorism".
• Former Pakistan Ruler Pervez Musharraf has conceded that his forces trained militant groups to fight India in Indian-administered Kashmir. He confessed that the government ″turned a blind eye″ because it wanted to force India to enter negotiations besides raising the issue internationally. He also said Pakistani spies in the Inter-Services Intelligence directorate (ISI) cultivated the Taliban after 2001 because Karzai’s government was dominated by non-Pashtuns, the country’s largest ethnic group, and officials who were thought to favour India.

 

[MastanKhan]

Chief,

I say this as a genuine friend of Pakistan, but as a friend who is losing hope, every day: the perspective is horribly different from where I stand. The four auxiliary divisions of the Pakistan Army,

• the Hizb ul Mujahideen,
• the Jaish e Mohammed,
• the Harkat e Mujahideen and
• the Lashkar e Taiba

flourished throughout this period. Attacks continued, in enervated form, throughout this period, without let-up.

What did you have in mind when you said that there was no continuation of provocation after 2002? We did not see any break.

Sir,

I would rather you say it like an enemy of pakistan---then at least we have a clear vision.

He told them, as far as the records go, to die like Spartans. He never held out any illusions about their beating the horde in front.

There was a similar incident at Saragarhi. At no stage did the Sikhs convey that they thought that they were equal to a multiple of the swarming Afghans outside. They fought for honour and died where they stood. The last man to die was the signaller, whose last signal was for permission to shut down his heliograph and take up his rifle. His body was found afterwards with multiple injuries.

What I responded to stank of that same ethno-religious superiority. If anyone in this day and age believes in that as a reality, as the poster seems to have done, I can only respond with amused astonishment.

Sir,

Okay---so they did---what is the big deal about it---.

Reality or no reality---at times of war strange things happen---God less men start to worship God--and God fearing men lose hope in their religion---.

 

[war&peace]

Sir,

You are a fool. That much is evident from your recent comments and your signature. There is no putting it lightly.

Were you standing in front of a mirror when you uttered those words!! Sir?

 

[Indus Falcon]

Sir,

I would rather you say it like an enemy of pakistan---then at least we have a clear vision.




Sir,

Okay---so they did---what is the big deal about it---.

Reality or no reality---at times of war strange things happen---God less men start to worship God--and God fearing men lose hope in their religion---.

Ignore him, his jingoism blinds him as usual. If he had an ounce of shame he would not been showing his face here, after the surgical strike fiasco and the blatant violation of human rights, not just in Kashmir but across India.

What Pakistan did (which is up for debate), did outside it's borders, unlike India who terrorizes it's own citizens.

 

[war&peace]

@MastanKhan

Sir,
Actually some people are focussing too much on the numbers in the war but I think they have spent more time on typing comments on pdf than reading books perhaps suffering from dementia and purposelessness in life. Can any one of them tell us which famous war was fought between to exactly same in number armies?
Can they throw some light on what were the number for each army in the conflict between Muhammad Bin Qassim and Raja Dahir? Tariq Bin Ziyad and the Spanish, Babur and Ibrahim Lodhi, Ahmed Shah Abdali and Marhattas, Napolean Bonaparte and the English,.....

What I found through even by skimming the history of war the two-totally matched sides in numbers is rather exception than the rule...But a lot of wars were won by numerically much inferior armies and history salutes them.