A NEW AIRCRAFT FOR PAF

[MastanKhan]

I do not understand the gripe against USA

Hi,

The U S offered the F16's under the special program that the funds will be used to pay and pakistan will only pay a small amount.

Pakistan never initiated that part of it being paid out the american funds---the U S offered it---. Then thru political turmoil---it got switched over to 95 mil dollars an aircraft---and then pakistan got lambasted for it.

Well---a BLK 52 is not worth 95 mil dollars a piece even if equipped with aesa HMD and using aim 120 C7--HMD and aim9x.

 

[wiseone2]

That means 83.33 millions / AC for Su-35 and now compare this with 96 million / AC by USA for F16 blk-60

there is a lot more to contracts - whether they are weapons, spares, training and maintainence clauses included

A lot of Pakistani fanboys are going to learn soon that the Su-35 ain't cheap

Hi,

The U S offered the F16's under the special program that the funds will be used to pay and pakistan will only pay a small amount.

Pakistan never initiated that part of it being paid out the american funds---the U S offered it---. Then thru political turmoil---it got switched over to 95 mil dollars an aircraft---and then pakistan got lambasted for it.

Well---a BLK 52 is not worth 95 mil dollars a piece even if equipped with aesa HMD and using aim 120 C7--HMD and aim9x.

it seems pretty excessive. but it is cheap compared to other choices around. IAF is forking $200 million per Rafale which is outrageous

 

[The SC]

Hi,

Someone please correct me---I believe that the sale of the SU35 to china was cancelled.

24 were bought and delivered just lately..

Am sure I will be shot down for this, but do we need such a huge defence budget at the cost of investing in our people with health, education and water?

Defending our borders is paramount, but are there better ways to do it ?

Britain and Germany bombed each other to hell, yet now their economies are so intertwined, same with Vietnam and USA

People are risking their lives to emigrate, suggests we have the balance wrong.

New shiny imported toys don't make us a great nation, a state that educates and supports its population does.

Did you know in 34 years our population will reach 300 million and rising, education and health services are the only real population control, there is a direct correlation.

Anyway, I doubt this post will make any difference, but everything has a knock on effect and I hope I have raised some awareness.

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/pakistan-buy-chinese-submarines.387619/page-23#ixzz4DqOGDUNM

While education, health and social services are paramount to any nation's advancement, defense is also extreemely important; let's take the example of WW2 you talked about, and bear in mind that Europe and Japan would have been the worst off today if it was not from the US Marshall plan to rebuild them completely from almost 0(from the ground up).
And what is the use of highly brilliant minds if a nation can not defend them? they'll end up like the German scientists working and advancing the other side, and in the case of Pakistan, Arabs or Muslims in general, don't even think of something like the Marshall plan to save your souls..

Hi,

The U S offered the F16's under the special program that the funds will be used to pay and pakistan will only pay a small amount.

Pakistan never initiated that part of it being paid out the american funds---the U S offered it---. Then thru political turmoil---it got switched over to 95 mil dollars an aircraft---and then pakistan got lambasted for it.

Well---a BLK 52 is not worth 95 mil dollars a piece even if equipped with aesa HMD and using aim 120 C7--HMD and aim9x.

And PAF was right, for almost a billion $ Pakistan can buy 12 SU-35, since China paid around 2 billion$ for 24..

That means 83.33 millions / AC for Su-35 and now compare this with 96 million / AC by USA for F16 blk-60

Yes 83 million$ fo SU-35 with weapons , support and probably much more, since the base price according to Wikipedia is less than 50 million$ per plane for the SU-35, so there must be a whole lot of goodies coming with it for an additional 25 million $..
It doesn't compare to the F-16 block 52 that was proposed, it didn't even had AESA or any upgrade like Viper or so..and much more expansive, while the SU-35 is in par with the F-15 air superiority fighter..

 

[jupiter2007]

Any new plateform purchase (Su35/J16x/Typhoon) is going to be for long term.

 

[war&peace]

Yes *# million fo SU-35 with weapons , support and probably much more, since the base price according to Wikipedia is less than 50 million$ per plane for the SU-35, so there must be a whole lot of goodies coming with it for an additional 25 million $..
It doesn't compare to the F-16 block 52 that was proposed, it didn't even had AESA or any upgrade like Viper or so..and much more expansive, while the SU-35 is in par with the F-15 air superiority fighter..

That is why Pakistan should strike a deal with Russia...Su35 is a great airplane but there is a pro-West lobby in Pakistan that wants to keep Pakistan enslaved by the West.

 

[wiseone2]

That is why Pakistan should strike a deal with Russia...Su35 is a great airplane but there is a pro-West lobby in Pakistan that wants to keep Pakistan enslaved by the West.

For $1.7 billion budget there is only so much aircraft you can maintain. unless you want to increase your budget by a large amount Russian aircraft won't work out

 

[C130]

That is why Pakistan should strike a deal with Russia...Su35 is a great airplane but there is a pro-West lobby in Pakistan that wants to keep Pakistan enslaved by the West.

buy 12 Su-35 and at any given time only 4 will be combat ready that's the truth , and let's not forget that India has 200 Su-30MKI and they are being upgraded to match the Su-35.


Pakistan is pretty much screwed when trying to level the playing field with India

only way I see Pakistan even getting close to matching India is if China does what the U.S does for Israel give a huge amount of military aid.


3 to 5 billion a year would allow Pakistan to buy the latest Chinese military planes.

if the J-31 is good as the Chinese make it out to be, then buying 36 a year for 5 years would level the playing field.

 

[Asian.Century]

China got 24 SU-35 for 2 billion$..

Is that $2 billion....only per unit cost of 24 Sukois...? can u break down the details???

 

[Joe Shearer]

buy 12 Su-35 and at any given time only 4 will be combat ready that's the truth , and let's not forget that India has 200 Su-30MKI and they are being upgraded to match the Su-35.


Pakistan is pretty much screwed when trying to level the playing field with India

only way I see Pakistan even getting close to matching India is if China does what the U.S does for Israel give a huge amount of military aid.


3 to 5 billion a year would allow Pakistan to buy the latest Chinese military planes.

if the J-31 is good as the Chinese make it out to be, then buying 36 a year for 5 years would level the playing field.

It will never level the playing field, because the Chinese themselves are faced with a debt mountain, excessive investment in infrastructure which will not be saturated in decades, and ecological disaster. Pakistan has already compromised on its aircraft purchase programme and its armoured programme.

Mene mene tekel upharsin.

Just curious is the supply of spares so tightly controlled that PAF cannot operate F-16s for a few weeks of combat ??

More or less. Give or take ten days.

 

[jupiter2007]

For $1.7 billion budget there is only so much aircraft you can maintain. unless you want to increase your budget by a large amount Russian aircraft won't work out

Don't worry about the money, our government has stolen over 5 billons in last 3 years. If we need money, we will sell jati umra and Bilawal house to buy these planes.

 

[war&peace]

buy 12 Su-35 and at any given time only 4 will be combat ready that's the truth , and let's not forget that India has 200 Su-30MKI and they are being upgraded to match the Su-35.


Pakistan is pretty much screwed when trying to level the playing field with India

only way I see Pakistan even getting close to matching India is if China does what the U.S does for Israel give a huge amount of military aid.


3 to 5 billion a year would allow Pakistan to buy the latest Chinese military planes.

if the J-31 is good as the Chinese make it out to be, then buying 36 a year for 5 years would level the playing field.

OMG....too much exaggeration....
DO NOT compare PAF's professionalism with IAF....just give them (IAF) F-16s and you will see that they will have the same issues with it as they have with Su30s.
Furthermore if both have same machines, then the man-behind the machine decides the outcome. so if you are saying SU30 mki upgraded = SU35 (which i highly doubt since airframes are different but just for the sake of argument) PAF will have both better availability and readiness. Furthermore, 5 billions a year means 50 Su35s or similar and for 5 years means 250 (SU35s + 5th gen A/C).
I'm sure once infrastructure is in place for CPEC and trade starts, setting 10 USB for PAF won't be a big problem and including Russia into CPEC can bring more goodies that may surprise everyone.

 

[wiseone2]

Don't worry about the money, our government has stolen over 5 billons in last 3 years. If we need money, we will sell jati umra and Bilawal house to buy these planes.

no one is stopping you

 

[Joe Shearer]

OMG....too much exaggeration....
DO NOT compare PAF's professionalism with IAF....just give them (IAF) F-16s and you will see that they will have the same issues with it as they have with Su30s.
Furthermore if both have same machines, then the man-behind the machine decides the outcome. so if you are saying SU30 mki upgraded = SU35 (which i highly doubt since airframes are different but just for the sake of argument) PAF will have both better availability and readiness. Furthermore, 5 billions a year means 50 Su35s or similar and for 5 years means 250 (SU35s + 5th gen A/C).
I'm sure once infrastructure is in place for CPEC and trade starts, setting 10 USB for PAF won't be a big problem and including Russia into CPEC can bring more goodies that may surprise everyone.

Before the 1965 war, when plans were being made, a Pakistani Major General was addressing his planners. When you make your plans, remember, he said, that one Pakistani soldier equals seven Indians. The Chief of Staff, General Musa, was present in the room and could not take it any more. He strode up, shouldered the Major General aside and said, Ten, not seven, ten.

plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose

 

[SQ8]

Before the 1965 war, when plans were being made, a Pakistani Major General was addressing his planners. When you make your plans, remember, he said, that one Pakistani soldier equals seven Indians. The Chief of Staff, General Musa, was present in the room and could not take it any more. He strode up, shouldered the Major General aside and said, Ten, not seven, ten.

plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose

This being the toadies assigned by Ayub?

More candid history does give better credit to Pakistani troops since they were fighting for survival, the Indians were fighting for a peg; the valor was always to dip in the side fighting to save their homeland.

 

[Joe Shearer]

This being the toadies assigned by Ayub?

More candid history does give better credit to Pakistani troops since they were fighting for survival, the Indians were fighting for a peg; the valor was always to dip in the side fighting to save their homeland.

These were the toadies. It is sad to see the same sense of superiority creeping into the mindsets of today's generation.

When you say fighting for survival, doesn't that beg the question, why did they start a fight that they couldn't finish? Why the nine commando segments into Kashmir? Why the attack across the Jammu Tawi? Why the pre-emptive air strikes? Were those the actions of an army or an air force fighting for survival?

What these actions provoked may have led to a fight for survival. My simple question: why the provocation? And a stupid, naive question: why does this provocation continue? Do these people actually like fighting for survival?