A Homeland for Indian Muslims

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Every Pakistani daily tells us how ugly, smelly, short, unsexy, small organed, hideous, superstitious, backward, oversexed, hateful creatures we Indians are.

That is the stereotype Indians have about what Pakistanis think of them. It does not make it correct.

Our media is way more sophisticated than this, we don't play communalism like this.

This way of thinking is a pure inferiority complex of Indians vis-a-vis Pakistanis. BDs had similar sentiments pre-1971, but now we have made peace and they realized we don't see them this way.

Pakistanis are the most open and hospitable people on the planet, we are not racists .

I resent my people being portrayed this way, as it is not factual.

Not internalised.

Thats the main thing.

They don't convert and stuff.

They've always tried to be a nation within a nation.

Can the same not be said of Parsis in India as well?

Or other groups like Sikhs, Buddhists, Jains, Tribals, Dalits?

Even conservative Hindus who do not share food or drink with Non-Hindus, do not intermarriage, and live by their own religious laws?

You see how this gets slippery.

THE WORLD HATES MUSLIMS.

The West sees Muslims as a threat, as we have ruled over them in the past and offer the only alternative system to their order.

Islam is the last religion left which has not been butchered and dismantled by the secular West, every other faith has been pacified, its adherents rendered mere cultural practitioners.

Many people find the threat of a rising, independent, and strong Islamic world stuff of nightmares. Most of these nations also sit on top of occupied Muslim lands which they would not like to see lost.

 

[padamchen]

That is the stereotype Indians have about what Pakistanis think of them. It does not make it correct.

Our media is way more sophisticated than this, we don't play communalism like this.

This way of thinking is a pure inferiority complex of Indians vis-a-vis Pakistanis. BDs had similar sentiments pre-1971, but now we have made peace and they realized we don't see them this way.

Pakistanis are the most open and hospitable people on the planet, we are not racists .

I resent my people being portrayed this way, as it is not factual.

We also resent this portrayal when it is not factually correct and paints our very diverse population with a broad brush.

However, it is very common to hear these on PDF, so we are going as per that.

Similar to the disrespect to non Muslim religions like Hinduism and Zoroastrianism (never hear it for any other religion).

Its a cultural thing.

And its how you are brought up and what you hear in your surroundings growing up.

As an example.

I have pitch battles with Sanghis on Indian forums. Finally got perma banned from all.

But while there is always the fight about which came first, and who came from whom, no Hindu disrespects Zoroastrianism, and I sure as hell have never disrespected Hinduism.

But Hindus disrespect Islam and Muslims disrespect Hinduism, all the time.

Sikhs do not like Muslims generally. Hate might be a strong word and I'll stay away from that. But between Muslims and Sikhs I've not noticed this disrespect of each others important religious figures. I'm of course basing my post on anecdotal experiences. From personal spheres.

Even Parsis do not like Islam for obvious reasons. But very few go around abusing your Prophet like many Muslims abuse us and ours. You even have an Arabic word for us. Fire. Magii. Right here on PDF. Door ko cchoro ...

Its give and take buddy. In the real world. Outside PDF. Big world.

 

[Kamikaze Pilot]

no Hindu disrespects Zoroastrianism

It might have been different had the Parsis been in greater numbers in India. Right now, they are too microscopic community to be noticed by Hindus. Who knows, Zoroastrian population might have been bigger in India during ancient/distant past times and their numbers dwindled due to persecution in India? And the currently known history doesn't tell about it?

- PRTP GWD

 

[padamchen]

Can the same not be said of Parsis in India as well?

Absolutely.

And there is a significant undercurrent of resentment towards Parsis which comes out when you interact with Sanghis. Same shakha playbook.

Colluded with the British.

Made their fortunes off Opium.

Almost Christian. Almost Muslim.

We gave you shelter. How dare you have an opinion and not toe the shakha line.

Reverse racism ... where we become the Asuras. The Mleccha (most other times its you).

But there is a big difference.

We are not 200 million strong.

And we did not split the country into two.

Also, even though the Sanghis try to "otherize" us valiantly, Hindus by and large (culturally strong and well read ones who drive discourse that permeates top down) recognise that there are strong links between our religions, that predate all other civiliizations and newer Abrahamic faiths.

5000+ years on, EVEN if we (Zoroastrians) are the OOI outcasts after the Battle of the Ten Kings, it still implies that we are the same people.

In comparison to Islam therefore, we are the Brahmin's Brahmins. And we never let them forget that.

It might have been different had the Parsis been in greater numbers in India. Right now, they are too microscopic community to be noticed by Hindus. Who knows, Zoroastrian population might have been bigger in India during ancient/distant past times and their numbers dwindled due to persecution in India? And the currently known history doesn't tell about it?

- PRTP GWD

Absolutely. Please read the above.

 

[Naofumi]

But very few go around abusing your Prophet like many Muslims abuse us and ours.

I read somewhere that Zoroaster was "appropriated" as an old prophet and Zoroastrians as another Ahl-al-Kitab in the post-Sassanian times.

You even have an Arabic word for us. Fire. Magii.

It's Majusi.

 

[padamchen]

I read somewhere that Zoroaster was "appropriated" as an old prophet and Zoroastrians as another Ahl-al-Kitab in the post-Sassanian times.

It's Majusi.

Thats for the Magii. Which is now used as a blanket term for all commoners as well (Behdin).

I was referring to the derogatory term (favored by the likes of Areesh here) Atash parast (fire worshippers).

 

[Naofumi]

EVEN if we (Zoroastrians) are the OOI outcasts after the Battle of the Ten Kings

OOI is pseudo-history contrary to all of the available evidence.

 

[padamchen]

OOI is pseudo-history contrary to all of the available evidence.

Its genetic bollocks.

I read somewhere that Zoroaster was "appropriated" as an old prophet and Zoroastrians as another Ahl-al-Kitab in the post-Sassanian times.

You should discuss this with an open mind with my brother next door @I.R.A

Maybe he will indulge you if you if he knows I've taken you under my wings.

 

[Robbie]

Add to that, @Naofumi and @The_Showstopper.



There used to be another member like him - @mujhaidind, supposedly from Bombay. Now perma-banned. He once even praised OBL as Osama bin Laden ( RA ).

The problem, in my opinion, has been for Dharmics in India to differentiate between Muslims and Islamists.

Unfortunately, Pakistan and its actions have deeply coloured India's perception of its own Muslims and made it easy to conflate Muslims with Islamists.

Ultimately, Islamism has damaged everyone including Islam. I'm not a leftist like you jamahir, but what would you suggest as actual, implementable remedial measures to start getting out of this spiral?

 

[Naofumi]

Its genetic bollocks.

Proto-Indo-Iranians originated outside of India (after the split from proto-Indo-Europeans), with many possible sites like the Bactria–Margiana Archaeological Complex. Then there's genetic drift, intermixing with the existing populations like Elam in the case of Persians and Indus valley for Arya-s and different gene flows notably from Near east and Middle east.

 

[padamchen]

Proto-Indo-Iranians originated outside of India (after the split from proto-Indo-Europeans), with many possible sites like the Bactria–Margiana Archaeological Complex. Then there's genetic drift, intermixing with the existing populations like Elam in the case of Persians and Indus valley for Arya-s and different gene flows notably from Near east and Middle east.

Search this forum.

Huge threads already exist.

I'm very sure of my place in this world and that of my people.

I used to get into genetic and racial stuff 9-10 years ago.

After that I realised how is it helping me? Regardless of my race and what its done, today we are dying out.

Once that became clear, my life changed (in a small way) as did the way I looked at Muslims or Islam in general, or even fellow Indians.

The rise of the Hindu Right further concretized that paradigm shift for me.

 

[Naofumi]

@AfrazulMandal is @EjazR

This was a slimy by the book Indian Muslim debater in the early days. Nothing he said was really wrong then either, but even then the hostility was evident to all.

And he consistently failed what is now universally accepted as the de rigeur test of being an Indian first.

Kashmir.

Remember this was 10 years ago. How much water has flowed under the bridge since then.

India was still staunchly secular.

The UPA was in power.

The economy was booming.

26/11 had just happened.

And this gentleman even then was an ardent proponent of the now classic well recognised Islamist "BUT" paradigm.

Yes that/what they did is wrong (grudgingly, quickly, to get it out of the way first ... like a quick fine print disclaimer)

BUT ... -(insert favorite gripe, harangue here)-

This guy at that time was in Uni in Australia .... where Afrazul Mandal resides permanently now, married.

Then he dropped off PDF for a few years. Which is the time he must have finished Uni. Got a job. Moved his family safely out of India. Got married.

And got radicalised. As many of these guys do in Australia, the UK, Europe, the US.

And then, when things were settled, and the Hindu right wing rose in India, and the expats of the West,

EjazR morphed in brumbyoz of Twitter

And came back to PDF as Afrazul Mandal.

Initially the broken English speaking caricature of a check multicolor lungi wearing Muslim of Malda in Didi's Bengal.

Suddenly to now magically discover fluent English and FUG YOU INDIA , YOU CAN NO LONGER TOUCH ME (permanent citizenship coming through in the interim).

@Nilgiri @Jackdaws @third eye @scorpionx @jbgt90 @Nilu Pule @Gadkari @Andhadhun @Gandhi G in da house

Tag other old Indian members here. I have lost track of old/new IDs and who is still current.

Have a look at the brumby's story in his own words, in his words Modi's election changed him.
https://bharatjournal.wordpress.com/2020/04/19/why-did-i-quit-twitter/
Some of his older tweets are interesting too.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

OK, the forum rules are extremely clear on not tolerating personal attacks.

The discussion on certain Indian Muslim members has crossed a line into targeted harassment at this point and will not be tolerated.

If you have concerns about a particular poster, report the post (FYI - as we get the reported posts backlog resolved, we will no longer be responding to moderators being tagged, so might as well get in the habit of reporting a post).

 

[padamchen]

OK, the forum rules are extremely clear on not tolerating personal attacks and persons.

The discussion on certain Indian Muslim members has crossed a line into targeted harassment at this point and will not be tolerated.

If you have concerns about a particular poster, report the post (FYI - as we get the reported posts backlog resolved, we will no longer be responding to moderators being tagged, so might as well get in the habit of reporting a post).

See, again, I got a message in me Alerts that my post had been deleted.

And why (apologies).

But there is no way of knowing which post has been deleted.

And if its been deleted, is there a point penalty etc. or do those only come in the Inbox (conversations) link on the top?

And if so, how do we respond to know what was deleted and appeal (if contesting ... which I'm not in this case)?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

See, again, I got a message in me Alerts that my post had been deleted.

And why (apologies).

But there is no way of knowing which post has been deleted.

And if its been deleted, is there a point penalty etc. or do those only come in the Inbox (conversations) link on the top?

And if so, how do we respond to know what was deleted and appeal (if contesting ... which I'm not in this case)?

The deleted post isn't visible to members anymore so giving you a link wouldn't really help. No warning points from post deletion.

I deleted a few posts that I came across that were getting personal on this thread, yours wasn't the only one.

No warning points when people get a 'soft warning' either.

Ima delete ma own post to see how it works

So yeah, you just get a notification that a post was deleted, with a reason if the mod chooses to offer one (which they should because a poster should know why a post was deleted to avoid repeating the same mistake).

In your case it was the long discussion on Azraful.

@padamchen so yeah. I can see the issue here. Posters just get a basic one line or phrase (like off topic/trolling) as a reason in the alert (if the mod chooses to put a reason in that field), but no text for the post in question. So if you have multiple posts on a thread like this one (which is the case on most threads for most posters) you would have no idea which post was deleted without going back and looking at everything.