A Freedom Struggle Is Not Terrorism

[DarkStar]

Lets stick to why Spain was invaded and occupied here.

If Spain regarded its occupation so highly why did they get rid of every last trace of that occupation? You only seem to believe in the version of the occupier! Even the British and others talked of the "white man's burden". You are no better in your arguments.

Do you know anything about the nature of the 'Reconquista'? It's origins in the papacy, and the whole weight of the Catholic North's behind it?

Do you not know the difference between teh Arab Al Andalus, when Muslims, Christians and Jews lived side by side, and enjoyed a golden period of civilisation and learning and the dark age that followed after the reconquista? This is called the Golden Era of the jewish community, with their best philosophers, medicians, historians, writers, exegists all prospering during this era.

This was replaced by inquisition (does the Spanish Inquisition ring a bell), superstition, destruction of bathing houses, forced conversions, expellation, and ultimately the economic and cultural downfall of Spain.

Even now the Spanish have enormous respect for the Moors, who had given them so much, and the Moorish past is being reclaimed by Spanish Historians and intellectuals at this very moment.

Yes, our legacy in Spain carries a burden. The burden of medicine, philosophy, music, paved streets and lights, sewarage systems, irrigation canals, astronomy, civil engineering, chemistry, book manufacture, jewellery manufacture, flower cultivation,poetry, language, history, and many other burdens do we bare.

And don't assume whether I have any idea or not. I may have more "idea" than you for all that matters. Lets move on beyond tried and tested rhetoric.

You are either ignorant, or are willfully witholding the truth. Now at least an ignorant person is honest in his/her ignorance. Now you tell me, which one are you?

Deliberate lies here! Don't you know of the slave traffic conducted by the Arabs? The millions of slaves that were taken to Afghanistan? From your own country.

We were talking about the ARab invasion of Muhammad bin Qasim. NOw you've jumped all the way to Afghanistan, many centuries later. Ok, so tell me, how many slaves, from which areas, were taken by whom at what time?

Even the slaves the muslims gave you, ended up becoming the masters and Kings of Delhi. Ever heard of the slave dynasty of Delhi? Who do you think built Qutub Minar? (now don't say it was prithvi raaj chauhaan).

It is not about today's geopolitical situation at all. It is about those actions were fair and whether you would like the same to be done unto you.

I tell you, if we as muslims were as strong today as we were then, we would still not accept the dishonour upon women that we did not accept then. Yes, the muslims became embroiled in Spain and India to protect the honour of a few maidens, but this only points to the nobility of purupose that we had. Others might have later seen an opportunity for conquest and consolidation, and one can hardly blame them, given the state of the people and the oppression visited upon them in both ancient Spain and India.

Show me the undeniable proof of AIT, then we can discuss your Aryan hypothesis. It is just a conjecture by some European historians. It is discredited now AFAIK.

The issue is not wether they invaded, or settled. It is accepted without dispute that the Aryans were foreigners to India, now whether they came as invaders or as settlers and pastoralists, is neither here nor there. Because the actions of the Aryans once they settled in India is what I have issues with.

 

[DarkStar]

This tale actually comes from the Puranas, specifically the Shiva Purana.

I have read Shiva Purana when my age was in single digit. And I was fascinated by the richness of our mythology. I am sure it is second to none in its richness in the world. Though I would like to study the Greek mythology too some day. That sounds incredibly rich too.

The version in Shiv Purana talks about Lord Shiva killing Ganesha because he won't let him in as ordered by his mother.

I doubt there is any version of this tale that is out there along the lines mentioned by DS.

You need to pay a little more attention. The issue in the Ramleela that I pointed towards, was about AgniPariksha, where Devi Sita is told to prove her innocence and chastity by walking through fire, by Lord Ram.

I will try and find a reference for the Lord Ganesha tale.

 

[Logic note]

You need to pay a little more attention. The issue in the Ramayana that I pointed towards, was about Agnisakshi, where Devi Sita is told to prove her innocence and chastity, by Lord Ram.

I will try and find a reference for the Lord Ganesha tale.

DARKSTAR

Ramayana or any mythology in hindu scripture is Mythology , a myth .
Gods are created , stories are made to teach masses the complexity of life and how to be ethical .

There is always a school of philosophy based on which these myths are created for comman people to make them understand what s good and what is bad

there are various school of philosophy , there were many different ideas , and each ideas created its followers .we dont kill jesus just because he is different frim what i believe and we dont fight against other views

Advaita Vedanta - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Vedanta - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Samkhya - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Raja Yoga - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

unlike other abrahamic religions , for hindus humanity is more important then any faith , thats spiritualism .

 

[DarkStar]

DARKSTAR

Ramayana or any mythology in hindu scripture is Mythology , a myth .
Gods are created , stories are made to teach masses the complexity of life and how to be ethical .

There is always a school of philosophy based on which these myths are created for comman people to make them understand what s good and what is bad

there are various school of philosophy , we dont kill jesus or fight against other views

Advaita Vedanta - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Vedanta - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Samkhya - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Raja Yoga - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

unlike other abrahamic religions , for hindus humanity is more important then any faith , thats spiritualism .

Would love it if you said the same thing to your Hindutva friends. I'd love to see the reaction if you posted the same in a rediff forum message.

You guys come here, and profess that it is all a myth, and about spiritualism. But the tune changes when the same sorts of people are observed elsewhere.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

DARKSTAR

unlike other abrahamic religions , for hindus humanity is more important then any faith , thats spiritualism .

Full of yourself aren't you?

Tell the RSS about that, or the Hindu goons and groups involved in the massacres after partition. Oh, and don't forget the Tamil tigers and that Hindu group involved in the bombings in India, or that Hindu Indian Army officer, or the carnage after teh Babri mosque and Gujrat riots.

"Humanity more important" my *** - please refrain from insulting everyone else here with your 'I am better and superior' garbage.

 

[Logic note]

Full of yourself aren't you?

Tell the RSS about that, or the Hindu goons and groups involved in the massacres after partition. Oh, and don't forget the Tamil tigers and that Hindu group involved in the bombings in India, or that Hindu Indian Army officer, or the carnage after teh Babri mosque and Gujrat riots.

"Humanity more important" my *** - please refrain from insulting everyone else here with your 'I am better and superior' garbage.

Dear Agno

Its not Arrogance , its reality . I can kick my religious faith if it is against ethics . we dont look in to our religious books to find the entire world .
Nor do we claim that our religion is the best or complete faith .

These struggle has nothing to do with Hindu religion , its there individual of regional struggle . faith has nothing to do with this . Compared to this , you can see the Middle east crisis and its repurcusion in west and entire world .

 

[Logic note]

Would love it if you said the same thing to your Hindutva friends. I'd love to see the reaction if you posted the same in a rediff forum message.

You guys come here, and profess that it is all a myth, and about spiritualism. But the tune changes when the same sorts of people are observed elsewhere.

I dont talk for everyone . I talk for truth whether he is hindu or Muslim or christian .

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Dear Agno

Its not Arrogance , its reality . I can kick my religious faith if it is against ethics . we dont look in to our religious books to find the entire world .
Nor do we claim that our religion is the best or complete faith .

These struggle has nothing to do with Hindu religion , its there individual of regional struggle . faith has nothing to do with this . Compared to this , you can see the Middle east crisis and its repurcusion in west and entire world .

Completely off base - the Middle East crises have as much to do with politics than faith. And if you do want to paint those crises as 'faith based' the examples I gave you are examples of Hinduism's own 'faith based violence and extremism'. Therefore, you are no better, and are indeed arrogant.

 

[Logic note]

Completely off base - the Middle East crises have as more to do with politics than faith. And if you do want to paint those crises as 'faith based' the examples I gave you are examples of Hinduism's own 'faith based violence and extremism'. Therefore, you are no better, and are indeed arrogant.

No these are not faith based .
these are individuals and regional and linguistic group .

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

No these are not faith based .
these are individuals and regional and linguistic group .

Oh of course not, but the conflicts involving the 'Abrahamic faith's' have no nationalistic or political dimensions to them whatsoever - only the causes behind the Hindu conflicts can be twisted to suit your disingenuous argument.

Sorry, but this 'I am superior to you' argument is not going to go anywhere on this forum.

 

[Vinod2070]

No these are not faith based .
these are individuals and regional and linguistic group .

Logic, I agree with you completely. Anyone willing to see can see the reason for the conflicts involving the Hindus in India or even the Sri Lankan issue that has been brought here.

They are all political in nature. Of course, some people will turn extremist over a period when they see extremism from the other side on a sustained basis. How could it be otherwise?

Especially if they get the feeling (rightly or wrongly) that any other course of action will be taken as weakness on their part.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Logic, I agree with you completely. Anyone willing to see can see the reason for the conflicts involving the Hindus in India or even the Sri Lankan issue that has been brought here.

They are all political in nature. Of course, some people will turn extremist over a period when they see extremism from the other side on a sustained basis. How could it be otherwise?

Especially if they get the feeling (rightly or wrongly) that any other course of action will be taken as weakness on their part.

All of that applies to the conflicts in the areas dominated by the Abrahamic faiths as well. However I am not necessarily surprised that you would agree with his biased 'Islam bashing' arguments, given your own animosity towards Islam.

 

[DarkStar]

Logic, I agree with you completely. Anyone willing to see can see the reason for the conflicts involving the Hindus in India or even the Sri Lankan issue that has been brought here.

They are all political in nature. Of course, some people will turn extremist over a period when they see extremism from the other side on a sustained basis. How could it be otherwise?

Especially if they get the feeling (rightly or wrongly) that any other course of action will be taken as weakness on their part.

Now HIndu extremism is also the fault of the muslims. It is justified by us being extremists "on a sustained basis".

You see, our **** stinks, but HIndu **** doesn't.

 

[Vinod2070]

All of that applies to the conflicts in the areas dominated by the Abrahamic faiths as well. However I am not necessarily surprised that you would agree with his biased 'Islam bashing' arguments, given your animosity towards Islam.

I disagree with both your contentions.

He has not bashed Islam at all. He pointed out the differences of Hinduism will all Abrahamic faiths. His was a general comment. I think you took more offense than required and took it a bit personally (in the sense of it being directed to Islam only).

It is a fact that Abrahamic religions are rigid on them being the only right ones, with the concept of all "infidels" going to hell just because of their faith. The biggest two of them also have a record of proselytism on a large scale, not always by peaceful means.

Second, I am not against any religion. I do feel strongly about the history of Islamic invasions in India. And that may come across as anti-Islam at times, especially if you won't want to differentiate the two. Some of my replies against the denigration of Hinduism may also come across that way.

Frankly it is an incorrect statement. Or at least highly exaggerated.

I am not against any religion or country if they simply leave us alone.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I disagree with both your contentions.

He has not bashed Islam at all. He pointed out the differences of Hinduism will all Abrahamic faiths. His was a general comment. I think you took more offense than required and took it a bit personally (in the sense of it being directed to Islam only).

He wasn't pointing out 'differences' - he sugar coated Hinduism while bashing the Abrahamic religions, which includes Islam. His was not just a 'general' comment, it was prejudice and a blatant display of arrogance. Trying to suggest that for 'Hindu's humanity is more important than any faith' is and extremely prejudiced and arrogant statement, and quite insulting.

Who gave him the powers to determine what is in the hearts and minds of those following the Abrahamic faith, and determine whether they value humanity or not?

Sorry, but that isn't just a 'general statement', and this kind of bigotry will not be tolerated.

I am not against any religion or country if they simply leave us alone.

Ditto here, but it is disingenuous of you to try and imply that any 'faith attacked you', when there wasn't any 'you' in the periods you refer to, nor was the attack of any 'faith'.