A Delay In MMRCA Is Not a Blessings For Pakistan Air Force

[batmannow]

Your answer is flawed.



so you don't need air superiority over sea specially when the enemy has an aircraft carrier with 30 odd potent fighters on it? You just need dumb bombers to attack an aircraft carrier? you just need dumb bombers to protect your sea ports and your sea lanes and your EEEZ. you just need dumb bombers when enemy asserts both surface and air are hunting your subs? you just want dumb bombers to defend your surface assets when attacked by enemy long range, long endurance missile trucks?

Dumb bombers ?are we in 2nd world war ?
Defend surface assests with bombers ?
Seriously , do you ever saw any fighter aircraft live in your life ?lol

 

[MastanKhan]

I want Navy to have its own independent Air Arm at least two squadrons. What I don't support is SU-35 or J-11 D is these squadrons because they are mainly Air Superiority Fighters for Navy J-16 would be the best with 12 hard points can carry lot of cruise and Anti Ship Missiles. J-16 is mainly designed for bombing missions I would love to see two squadrons of J-16 with Navy.

Hi,

If want to talk about defense---then you need to understand and learn about strategy and game plan. You need to understand your strength and weakness and you need to understand the enemy's strength and weakness.

The enemy is very strong on its side of the border---great air defense that can overlap on our side----pretty much all over Punjab and parts of Sindh border with SA batteries etc-----.

Now when it comes to the ocean---it does not manage that same strength. Now it is more dependent on its air arm----and the ocean being open and wide----and with your aircraft having long legs---you can find ways to sneak in and use your standoff weapons----.

On the strike missions over water---that is where you can do the most damage to the enemy beach cities and installations. For that reason---you need two different types of aircraft---air superiority---like the J11D or the SU35 and for strike---like the JH7B----.

The issue that you are going to face is that you are going to come across enemy fighter pilots who are very well integrated into their aircraft for a very long time----.

And the only aircraft that is worth anything that you can claim that your pilots are very well integrated is the F 16 only and only F 16----. The mirages are very old---they may play a minimal role---not worth much.

So---now you have another major problem---of integration----of learning to use and operate the aircraft----. The myth of the old has been debunked many a years ago---that our plots are smart and they are great and now you can learn everything in the simulator---and one of the fools came out arguing with me was 'Bossman'---amongst many---around 5 or 7 years ago---and guess what---the process of integration has not peaked out yet----specially for the newer naval strike weapons for JF 17----.

 

[Zarvan]

Hi,

If want to talk about defense---then you need to understand and learn about strategy and game plan. You need to understand your strength and weakness and you need to understand the enemy's strength and weakness.

The enemy is very strong on its side of the border---great air defense that can overlap on our side----pretty all over Punjab and parts of Sindh border with SA batteries etc-----.

Now when it comes to the ocean---it does not manage that same strength. Now it is more dependent on its air arm----and the ocean being open and wide----and with your aircraft having long legs---you can find ways to sneak in and use your standoff weapons----.

On the strike missions over water---that is where you can do the most damage to the enemy beach cities and installations. For that reason---you need two different types of aircraft---air superiority---like the J11D or the SU35 and for strike---like the JH7B----.

The issue that you are going to face is that you are going to come across enemy fighters who are very well integrated into their aircraft for a very long time----.

And the only aircraft that is worth anything that you can claim that your pilots are very well integrated is the F 16 only and only F 16----. The mirages are very old---they may play a minimal role---not worth much.

So---now you have another major problem---of integration----of learning to use and operate the aircraft----. The myth of the old has been debunked many a years ago---that our plots are smart and they are great and now you can learn everything in the simulator---and one of the fools came out arguing with me was 'Bossman'---amongst many---around 5 or 7 years ago---and guess what---the process of integration has not peaked out yet----specially for the newer naval strike weapons----.

Sir I agree our budget sucks that is why first priortiy should be given to getting a Air Superiority Fighter like J-11 D or SU-35 in really large numbers. Secondly if economy improves drastically in next 5 years we should go for a bomber also that can be decided later weather bomber should be J-16 or JH-7 B. Last point is 5th Generation won't come in next 10 years depending on that is suicidal.

 

[Sipahi]

Whichever they want to buy just by it.... 3 Squadrons will be enough.

 

[MastanKhan]

Sir I agree our budget sucks that is why first priortiy should be given to getting a Air Superiority Fighter like J-11 D or SU-35 in really large numbers. Secondly if economy improves drastically in next 5 years we should go for a bomber also that can be decided later weather bomber should be J-16 or JH-7 B. Last point is 5th Generation won't come in next 10 years depending on that is suicidal.

Hi,

The 5th gen needs to be 10 to 15 years away at the minimum.

For strike missions---you are going to lose some planes----. For the planes that rae going I---why not a less expensive but equally potent aircraft with a heavier load carrying capacity---lie the JH7B---which will be around 25mil a piece as compared to the others are 40-60 mil a piece.

So---if you are going for 3 sqdrns of heavies like SU35 or J11D---then for 2/3rds of the money go for 2 sqdrns of air superiority and with the 1/3rd of the money---you can get another 2 sqdrn of the less expensive strike aircraft----because they are at half price of the other.

As Calusewitz said---wars need to have a political solution---that can lead to your weapons need to have a political solution-----. Our current weapons do not have a political solution for a war.

 

[Zarvan]

Hi,

The 5th gen needs to be 10 to 15 years away at the minimum.

For strike missions---you are going to lose some planes----. For the planes that rae going I---why not a less expensive but equally potent aircraft with a heavier load carrying capacity---lie the JH7B---which will be around 25mil a piece as compared to the others are 40-60 mil a piece.

So---if you are going for 3 sqdrns of heavies like SU35 or J11D---then for 2/3rds of the money go for 2 sqdrns of air superiority and with the 1/3rd of the money---you can get another 2 sqdrn of the less expensive strike aircraft----because they are at half price of the other.

As Calusewitz said---wars need to have a political solution---that can lead to your weapons need to have a political solution-----. Our current weapons do not have a political solution for a war.

JH-7 B can be good but we need SU-35 or J-11 D first and at least 3 squadrons with that if me some how can manage to get 3 JH-7 B squadrons we can hell unleash hell on India.

 

[bdslph]

for MMRCA Pakistan should wait bit and think well
because this planes will need to go for 3o year at least
so better for to go stealth or the Su35 type aircraft

 

[Chanakyaa]

@MastanKhan

Sir,
I wish i could give 1000 Likes to each of your posts. Very Informative and Thoughtful and most importantly so Graceful.
I do not have words to express my sense of respect, but you are one of the few reasons why many memmbers like me love this Forum.

Thank you so much for your valuable Time and Energy.
Allah apko salamat Rakhe...!

Hi,

The 5th gen needs to be 10 to 15 years away at the minimum.

For strike missions---you are going to lose some planes----. For the planes that rae going I---why not a less expensive but equally potent aircraft with a heavier load carrying capacity---lie the JH7B---which will be around 25mil a piece as compared to the others are 40-60 mil a piece.

So---if you are going for 3 sqdrns of heavies like SU35 or J11D---then for 2/3rds of the money go for 2 sqdrns of air superiority and with the 1/3rd of the money---you can get another 2 sqdrn of the less expensive strike aircraft----because they are at half price of the other.

As Calusewitz said---wars need to have a political solution---that can lead to your weapons need to have a political solution-----. Our current weapons do not have a political solution for a war.

Sir, so what you are proposing is :

#1. 60 x J11D
#2. 40 x JH7B
and.. ?

 

[Eagle Claw]

As far as JH-7B is concerned as we had discussion earlier on @MastanKhan bro's post, JH-7B will not cost more than 25 million USD a piece. Thats too, I am telling Maximum Price to what it could be sold. But if it Provides Potent Avionics Package along with AESA radar and EW. Its the Best Possible option PAF could think about currently.
Never forget it offers Payload greater than 10K and has 9 Hardpoints. You can use it for any purpose be it Bombing ((If you wana Bang Bang in Enemy's Territory)), Be it in Air if you fully load it with BVRs making it a BVR Truck. There are Many more and wide Range of Mish that JH-7Bs can perform which ease.
2 Squardrons of JH-7B in PAF and 1 Squadron in PN will add some serious Punch to PAF/PN capabilities.
I think we should start up with Acquiring these Heavies. I hope in coming year when economy increases, we can also order 2 Squadron of Su-35.
We should Kick Start with >>
38 birds x JH-7B for PAF
18-20 birds x JH-7B for PN
Later on we can go for 36-38 pieces of Su-35 as a Starter and can keep on increasing numbers with the passage of time.
JF-17 Thunder / F-16s / JH-7B / Su-35 can prove to be some very lethal business for Adversaries.
Forget 5th Gen bird for atleast 1-1.5 Decade.
Peeps should realize that our Mirages have turned into flying coffins, we do need something other than Thunder which can provide that Payload, which we have utilized in Past in shape of Mirages.

 

[Super Falcon]

Sir I agree with you.

This is how I see what an air force should be able to do in a full scale war in a very broad way of
looking at it and why I feel that there is a need for an Air Superiority fighter

Salient Tasks Of An Air Force
1) Intercept and eliminate any aerial threat that infiltrate home air space
2) Recconoitre enemy movement and positions
3) Close air support to homeland forces against enemy forces - Battlefield Interdiction
4) Interdiction of enemy supply routes behind enemy lines
5) Hinder enemy's mobilization
6) Deep penetration tactical strikes against enemy's vital installations, bases, radar stations and
communication infrastructure
7) Strategic strikes against enemy's economic, logistic, defence production infrastructure
8) Disrupt enemies maritime operations
9) Naval Interdiction
10) Quick deployment of forces and supplies
11) Most Important --> Preventing/hindering the enemy air force from doing the same from 1 to 10.

This final step needs an Air Superiority Fighter, as it will require a fighter that not only
can win a fight over home skies but can also do so over enemy skies till the mission objectives
are achieved. This requires a fighter that doesn't need to compromise on agility, range, endurance and good striking ability.

We don't have anything like this and its high time we get something.

This is why I fully agree with @MastanKhan when he says that the PAF has been in the clutches of the fighter mafia.

With current F 16 AND JF 17 it impossible to achieve what you said we need SU 35 for such aggression

 

[MastanKhan]

@MastanKhan

Sir,
I wish i could give 1000 Likes to each of your posts. Very Informative and Thoughtful and most importantly so Graceful.
I do not have words to express my sense of respect, but you are one of the few reasons why many memmbers like me love this Forum.

Thank you so much for your valuable Time and Energy.
Allah apko salamat Rakhe...!



Sir, so what you are proposing is :

#1. 60 x J11D
#2. 40 x JH7B
and.. ?

Hi,

I do not know what to make of your post---if it is flattery---then you got me---but if you think that there is something of value in it---then I appreciate your comments---.

 

[melb4aust]

Pakistan had planned 2025 But Problem Was their were no funds so instead of Just Sitting Around They kick started their own project And We have a capable fighter in less than decade

Sukhoi or Other Bird Will Take for induction and money which Will Slow down thunder its development and induction No matter What anyone Says I Hope Paf Stands behind Thunder and Support it Try to speed up the project

When Paf has changed all its old crafts to Thunder it will also give Paf room ( confidence) to experiment and deploy different Systems

Lets not cry over funds again and again. If the government have millions to spend on useless infrastructure projects like Nandi Pur and Metro etc, then their @ss can be kicked to divert future funds to something useful. First develop your mind and state to be competent enough to procure what's actually needed.

Thunder is here and is not going anywhere, mature it to your full satisfaction, but at least look beyond now. Fill in the gaps and strive to catch up, even leap ahead without looking back where you were before. Grasp every potential opportunity don't let it go in waste. Its not an overnight process, but at least resign your old thinking mindset and bring in an aggressor's attitude to reign fear among enemies rather being defensive and evasive.

World wont let you survive being peaceful..... Mark someone's words

 

[jaibi]

Do we have bad blood? I wasn't aware

Plus, I was busy 0r

Hi,

Here is the Think Tank chairman people-----Not a single original thread started own his on for 1 year and 2 months----.

One started yesterday after a hiatus of one year is a paste and copy of someone else article ----.

Son----if you have an iota of shame in you---you resign from your position and end this farceful Think Tank group.

@jaibi the truth is and I swear to Allah----I had not seen a post from you for so long that I thought that we had gotten rid of you---or maybe you left on your own.

I now I see your miserable self attached to this board like a blood sucker---doing no constructive work and just attached---what a shame----a true Pakistani in form.

 

[melb4aust]

Sir, you have been advocating a lot about J11D were as this aircraft is not suited for naval roles. The aircraft that is well suited is the J-15 because they operate from aircraft carriers. PN should be looking towards these as China plans to position one of her Aircraft carrier at Gawadar.

We don't have aircraft carrier. J11 can be modified to what ever needs we may have.

 

[MastanKhan]

Do we have bad blood? I wasn't aware

Plus, I was busy 0r

Hi,

There is no bad blood---I just hate all SIFARSHIS with a passion. I hate them all equally without discrimination and prejudice.

If you had written something over the years----I am pretty sure our swords would have crossed---. If our swords have not crossed yet---then it means that you have not written any thing of substance.

You are a serving member of the military now---according to you----.

So---if you cannot do justice with your position on this board then you must quit your title---.

Show some character------. If you cannot do justice to this job---then why do you have it.

How about the military job---would you do the same with that job---or is title JUST FOR SHOW to your bosses.

Would you use the same excuse at time of war----oh---I was busy---I could not do the planning----.