A Defense of Free Speech

[Tuahaa]

Again, congrats to all on a measured and mellow thread!

I'll try to be brief...

Christians view Judaism as a "beginning", an initial Covenant with God, with the promise of a Savior or Messiah evident in dozens of prophesies from the major and minor Jewish prophets, particularly Isaiah.

At the time of Jesus' ministry, Judaism had become quite formalized and ritualized, with some of the more powerful sects, particularly the Pharisees, believing that the promised Messiah was one who would lead the Jews in an Earthly kingdom; remove the shackles of Rome, become their political leader. Instead, what Jesus taught was a heavenly kingdom, not an earthly one. The Sanhedrin (Jewish court) and other leaders in Jerusalem grew jealous of Jesus' popularity - he had gathered a large following who were listening to his teachings, which were very different from traditional Judaism - and convinced the Roman government to execute him for blasphemy.

Here is where Christianity and Islam part ways - we believe he was crucified, died, and was buried. On the third day he arose from the dead and appeared not only to his immediate disciples, but to thousands of eyewitnesses. He ascended into Heaven, promising to return. I know Islam teaches Jesus was NOT crucified.

Jesus had created a New Covenant, which supplants the old. Jewish dietary laws, Sabbath laws, the hundreds or thousands of laws, are n/a for Christians. We view Jesus' works and perfection, his sinless life, as a proper completion of the Old Testament (Jewish Bible). Our Bible consists of the Jewish Pentateuch, the prophets, the Psalms, and ends with the minor Prophet Malachi, written ~ 500 B.C. From there begins the New Testament - Four Gospels, or accounts of Jesus' life, the Acts of the Apostles, Epistles (letters) of Paul with guidance, and Revelations.

So in a nutshell, Christianity views Judaism as a root, a beginning, with Jesus as the completion, the promised Messiah.

Hmm... looks like our views are quite similar, then (except as you said about the crucification).

We believe that Judaism was one of the earlier religions from God, for there were ones before it, Christianity as a major religion after Judaism, and Islam as the 'perfected' religion...

"...This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islâm as your religion..."

Chapter 5, Verse 3, Qur'an

I'll ask some more because I have some questions but I gotta go right now.

Thanks

 

[MastanKhan]

Gentlemen,

To my young muslim colleagues---a little more research about christianity and judaism would be helpful in this discussion.

Some of you are jumping into it and don't even have the basic fundamental knowledge about the other guy's beliefs.

Knowledge is power---once you find that out then you would see how close we are in our beliefs in some places and what are the other fundamental differences.

 

[Luftwaffe]

MastanKhan that is what The Glorious Quran tells us Muslims and people of the Books.

Say: "O People of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you: that we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah." If then they turn back, say ye: "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will)." Quran 3.64

Further The Quran asks to be patient but Muslims are opposite to that to what The Quran teaches and Stresses the most.

 

[CardSharp]

America does not have or in my opinion need such laws, and I don't think Canada does, either.

I think we did lock people up and deport Ernst Zündel for holocaust denial.

 

[GFM_EhsanUlHaq]

---------- Post added at 09:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:53 AM ----------

[/COLOR]Holocaust is nothing but a zionist propaganda agianst germany

 

[Luftwaffe]

GFM_EhsanUlHaq..look at the thread topic ok?

 

[Tuahaa]

Also, Muslims should read this!

And dispute not with the People of the Book (Christians and Jews), except with means better than mere disputation, unless I be with those of them who inflict wrong and injury, but say to them: "We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our God and your God is one; and it is to Him that we bow." (Qur'an 29:46)

I know, it is terrible when they insult Prophet Muhammad and discriminate, but don't react. Just don't give a damn.

 

[Chogy]

The U.S. is FULL of horrible imagery that mocks all religions. Jesus (and by extension, Christianity) is a favorite target. We have "art" like Mary spattered with dung, and a crucifix immersed in urine. All you can do is ignore it, brush it aside as ignorance. And at the same time, be sure in your own life that you are respectful of others' cherished beliefs.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

It is more prejudicial in europe---where it is against the law to deny holocaust or make fun of it---you will go to jail.

Wow---ain't the european parliaments guilty and nervy about their deeds---but sending someone to jail is way beyond.

Now on the same pretext---desecrating Qura'an or derogatory comments about islam, Prophet Mohammad and Allh is okay with the europeans---but don't say nothing against the holocaust---.

So---who controls whom---and what.

 

[CardSharp]

Hi,

It is more prejudicial in europe---where it is against the law to deny holocaust or make fun of it---you will go to jail.

Wow---ain't the european parliaments guilty and nervy about their deeds---but sending someone to jail is way beyond.

Now on the same pretext---desecrating Qura'an or derogatory comments about islam, Prophet Mohammad and Allh is okay with the europeans---but don't say nothing against the holocaust---.

So---who controls whom---and what.

Please... not the Jewish global kabal conspiracy again.

That was didn't really make sense in Hitler's racism ideology. He portrait Jews as all powerful and as secretly controlling the United States in films like "the eternal Jew" and yet he never bothered to think why European Jews were so easy to isolate within their respective community.

 

[Tuahaa]

The U.S. is FULL of horrible imagery that mocks all religions. Jesus (and by extension, Christianity) is a favorite target. We have "art" like Mary spattered with dung, and a crucifix immersed in urine. All you can do is ignore it, brush it aside as ignorance. And at the same time, be sure in your own life that you are respectful of others' cherished beliefs.

I don't get why people do this... how did religious people ever mock them?

 

[Luftwaffe]

Please... not the Jewish global kabal conspiracy again.

Dear friend, it is time you accept this as the sole truth that is what is going on in the europe, there is no conspiracy to it is the reality.

Would you like to see a law in Islamic countries be passed that any christian or a person from any religion who insults The Quran/Allah/Prophets will be sent to jail life imprisonment? and I am sure the whole word would be calling it an obsolete brutal law..

Please also its 2010 I believe Hitler era is gone. And again I would stress when you bring in Hitler, Do bring Roosevelt the Murderer of millions of Japanese by bombing the hell out Hiroshima/Nagasaki instantly killing millions of people (yet the western world chooses to believe jews got killed by rifles and [fiction gas chambers] died more then ATOMIC BOMBS), why do you people choose to bring Hitler and insult one man neglecting the other killer of humanity. So please live in today stop looking back or else alot of things would unfold.

 

[Chogy]

I don't get why people do this... how did religious people ever mock them?

I think they perceive the notion of the existence of God to be a sort of insult in itself. But the largest problem, I think, is that they are afraid and believe people of faith are determined to force them into a faith-based system... formal prayer in public schools, etc. They lash out, ridicule, and attempt to marginalize.

For example, in the Western U.S., there is a rancher who owns thousands of acres. He had erected a simple cross (nothing outrageous) on a high point of his land. He was sued; some people found the sight of the cross "offensive."

The reality (in the U.S. at least) is that the last thing we want is the government in our lives telling us how to pray and believe. We simply want the government to leave everyone alone in matters of faith.

 

[CardSharp]

I think they perceive the notion of the existence of God to be a sort of insult in itself. But the largest problem, I think, is that they are afraid and believe people of faith are determined to force them into a faith-based system... formal prayer in public schools, etc. They lash out, ridicule, and attempt to marginalize.

For example, in the Western U.S., there is a rancher who owns thousands of acres. He had erected a simple cross (nothing outrageous) on a high point of his land. He was sued; some people found the sight of the cross "offensive."

The reality (in the U.S. at least) is that the last thing we want is the government in our lives telling us how to pray and believe. We simply want the government to leave everyone alone in matters of faith.

There you go again playing pop psychology for why people don't think the same way you do. and really religious media loves to play up token persecution cases like that rancher putting up a cross. Those cases are oddities and I bet there are details that you or the person writing the article is omitting knowingly.

 

[Tuahaa]

I think they perceive the notion of the existence of God to be a sort of insult in itself. But the largest problem, I think, is that they are afraid and believe people of faith are determined to force them into a faith-based system... formal prayer in public schools, etc. They lash out, ridicule, and attempt to marginalize.

For example, in the Western U.S., there is a rancher who owns thousands of acres. He had erected a simple cross (nothing outrageous) on a high point of his land. He was sued; some people found the sight of the cross "offensive."

The reality (in the U.S. at least) is that the last thing we want is the government in our lives telling us how to pray and believe. We simply want the government to leave everyone alone in matters of faith.

Interesting... I didn't know Christians went through this too... and even in their own home land.

Well, I guess it must be ignored.