A-10 Thunderbolt II for Pakistan

[muse]

Then we would run into the same sanctions bit from the U.S congress. Forget about U.S armaments, I know we love their stuff, but it's not for us, it cannot be.

 

[Kamakazi 69]

As, far as I know A-10 was offered to Pakistan in 1983. Pakistan rejected them and asked for F-16.
Pakistan wanted F-16 but USA offered A-10 and couple of other crafts (dont remember the name).

USA congress initially wasnt intrested to offer F-16 to Pakistan, but in the end they offered few through peace gate.

We were offered the F-5 and the F-20 Tigershark.

And the battlefield survivability of the Thunderbolt 2 is a million times more than a combat helicopter.
Plus I don't think the A-10 is even produced any more. Which is why a deal to sell A-10s to Turkey was repealed.

Its a very stable aircraft and has incredible low-speed manoeuvrability. Plus it's got the terror factor.

 

[S-2]

I believe that it has access to 30mm HE ammo as well as the DU stuff. FAS says-

"The gun fires a mix of both high explosive incendiary (HEI) and armored piercing incendiary (API) ammunition. The PGU-13/B HEI High Explosive Incendiary round employs a standard M505 fuze and explosive mixture with a body of naturally fragmenting material that is effective against lighter vehicle and material targets."

Bombs, 2.75 inch rockets, cluster munitions. Pretty valuable battlefield weapon.

We are using it CONSTANTLY in Afghanistan and it is our BESTEST buddy. Supposedly Boeing was awarded a contract in June 2007 to build new modular wing sets-

Boeing Awarded $2.0 bil A-10 Wing Contract

You might think about this ol' bird- the A-1 Skyraider. Count the pylons. EXTENSIVE use in S. Vietnam. Helluva plane-

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

Yup theres no match for its 30mm HE ammo.
A-10 is best suited to the WAR in Pakistan .
But unfortunately we cant have it coz we dont want our money to be wasted on planes wrotting in the Hangers of Sahara Desert . The ideal thing would be to upgrade the Super Mashak with some sort of wepons.

 

[Comet]

I would love to see this bird in Pak flag.

 

[Muradk]

We will never get A-10s specially after gulf war the USAF really found out its potential and started to upgrade them. They never realised its going to blow up tanks into pieces, Well they did screwup the ground crew by not telling them that the bullets are full of radiation.

 

[arslan_treen]

it was offered to us instead of f16s in late 70s and early 80s and pakistan might never would have got f16s if iranian revolution wudnt have taken place the f16 were ment for iran but then with the Afghan sitiution was given to pakistan A-10 was actuly offered to any country that wanted it but no country wanted it at that time but after ist and 2nd gulf war the sitiution changed dramticly for this underdog.
p.s i think gunship helicopters and Ucavs are the best option against insurgancy or rotary engine aircrafts !

 

[niaz]

A-10 would be ideal for action against Taliban and COIN because it won’t be brought down by 20mm AA cannon.

However A-10 is vulnerable against MANPADs such as Stingers as well as SAMs and other aircrafts. Therefore while A-10 is well suited for air forces which can achieve air superiority over the battlefield and can successfully jam enemy SAMs; its utility against Pakistan’s traditional enemy such as India is debatable.

 

[Kamakazi 69]

I agree with S-2.
We could use prop. aeroplanes like the Skyraider (worked well against the Vietnamese and usually suffered losses from enemy MiGs, which is not a problem here, atleast for now).

Although I think those birds have been scrapped for a long time.
As H2O3C4 Nitrogen (sorry if I got the formula wrong) suggests, the Super Mushak could be used for COIN operations.
Or maybe the Brazilian Tucano, which is considered among the best prop. trainers/ light attack fighters in the world.

 

[S-2]

"However A-10 is vulnerable against MANPADs such as Stingers as well as SAMs and other aircrafts. Therefore while A-10 is well suited for air forces which can achieve air superiority over the battlefield and can successfully jam enemy SAMs; its utility against Pakistan’s traditional enemy such as India is debatable."

Niaz,

Every aircraft is vulnerable to something in a high-density AAA/SAM environ. Remember that the A-10 was designed primarily with an attack by the Warsaw Pact on western Europe or south to the Persian gulf. In either instance we anticipated a great deal of armored targets.

The A-10's evolution was a complement to our air-ground mix of weapons. The successful deployment of A-10s against TANK armor was predicated on the battlefield's air defense systems being effectively suppressed. This is commonly known as SEAD (Suppression of Enemy Air Defense) and can typically entail a mix of rotor-winged, artillery, and fast-movers to clear the battlespace sufficient to permit A-10s to do their job.

Wild Weasels light up SAM systems over the targeted area and jam or destroy them. E.W. teams jam air defense radio networks. Artillery attacks soft SAM/AAA targets (i.e. radar dishes on vehicles, exposed missile systems and hand-held SAM carrying infantry and exposed towed AAA systems). Apache/Cobra attack vehicle-mounted AAA (ZSU 23-4/ZSU 57-2 systems). Finally, A-10s make their gun-runs on armor. Each defensive system peels another layer of defense away to enable the hogs to feast.

No single weapon is expected to survive a high-density SAM/AAA area. Without all working in concert to synergized effect, there will be a far lower liklihood of success. Remember, the ultimate target of this choreographed violence are the TANKS.

This battlefield doesn't represent the threat that even the Afghan-Soviet war postured. The most dangerous weapon consistently displayed to date is the 12.7mm DsHk HMG. I've heard that there are some ZPU 14.5mm weapons and, I suppose, ZU 23-2 towed systems might be available in some modest number. Both of these weapons would likely be quite old. How serviceable? Who knows.

That said, I still contend that A-1 Skyraiders would be PERFECT for this battlefield. Good speed, great weapon loads and loiter time. Very, very durable in a battlefield not markedly different from South Vietnam WRT the AAA threat.

 

[SBD-3]

yap to minimize the threat of a gunfire or manpad faster spped is required i think A-5s after being retired can be dedicated for the same as many PAF pilots still rank them preety high

 

[Vassnti]

As, far as I know A-10 was offered to Pakistan in 1983. Pakistan rejected them and asked for F-16.
Pakistan wanted F-16 but USA offered A-10 and couple of other crafts (dont remember the name).

USA congress initially wasnt intrested to offer F-16 to Pakistan, but in the end they offered few through peace gate.

It was the right choice the a-10 is good at doing what it does but its a one trick pony, no matter how sexy the idea of flying what in efect is a 30mm gatling gun with wings,the F-16 was the better choice and still is, though i do admit to being totaly and unresonably biased when it comes to the viper

 

[blain2]

Very well said Haider, sometimes ago I mentioned that we can still use T-6s we have stored in a hanger just 6 of them will do perfectly they are rugged slow and can be fitted it all sorts of weapons, Tho it may sound stupid but I have 1600hr on them training our young Pilot Officers. You will be amazed that what that plane can do. I and some old timers had a talk during a Air-board meeting that give us 6 planes and we will do the needful it can be easily fitted with a laser designator and the bombs will land smack at the target. Shahid Latif was totally for it but the whole project died with his promotion. Our pilots will have no clue how to even start the plane let alone fly one its got 3 throttle in it but would be a perfect weapon against WOT. Plus why put or kids into danger when we are alive, We have gone through more than they can think off so why not now. I would gladly give my life for my country in a heartbeat and so will the pilots of our generation. Its better to die fighting than to wakeup have a cup of tea read the new paper and cry what is happening to the country.

Sir,

Your guidance to the youth would be of a much, much greater value than you being back in the cockpit. In any case a massive for the spirit of self-sacrifice. This is what PAF elan is all about!

On the topic on hand, the problem with A-10s being delivered to Pakistan are two-fold. First is that USAF do not have any spare airframes to give to Pakistan and all of the ones in service are going through a major structural refit with plans for full integration with a targeting pod and upgraded communication suit. The second issue is PAF's own consideration for sticking with MR aircraft instead of going for another dedicated platform. However PAF may look at it more favourably now due to the ongoing operations however the first roadblock is in the way now.

I personally think that PAF would be much better off with more attack helicopters and potentially some AC-130 Specter platforms (even 3 would suffice).

 

[fatman17]

Very true fatman17 but it was offered to us in the past which we didn't tak up in any case iam sure as you said no such luck for Pak perhaps now that it is !

yes but way back then even the yanks did not know its potential - the A-10 was beset with all kinds of problems and the company Fairchild went bankrupt until rescued by the pentagon/congress with a order for the warthog!

once again guys forget it!
convince the americans to provide more cobras - they will do just fine!

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

It was ugly---it looked nasty---it was a slow mover---it was a plane that that only its manufacturer or its pilot could love untill the gulf war.

I believe that all available A 10's will be refurbished and be in operation till 2030---.