90 Seconds Over LOC

[Tom_Cruise]

The PAF can claim all it wants or release “evidence” to whoever it deems worthy; but facts won’t change and that unless publicly verifiable evidence is available, the SU-30MKI kill is spurious, at best. If evidence exists and if it can be shared with Alan Warnes, then it should be shared with all. If not, PAF claim is the same as IAF claims.

Yep, no proof yet of an MKI kill.

Or that of PAF bombing India.

It all seems futile and a boring propaganda war that everyone has gotten used to.

 

[WarKa DaNG]

Again this topic........

 

[SIPRA]

Again this topic........

Unless a new, equally juicy and exciting one comes!!!

 

[WarKa DaNG]

Unless a new, equally juicy and exciting one comes!!!

For fukc sake stop this thing

 

[Falcon26]

Yep, no proof yet of an MKI kill.

Or that of PAF bombing India.

It all seems futile and a boring propaganda war that everyone has gotten used to.

PAF did bomb India. Even the Indian government doesn’t dispute this.

 

[SIPRA]

For fukc sake stop this thing

Well, every thread and every topic has its life and it ends, ultimately. So will this.

 

[Tom_Cruise]

PAF did bomb India. Even the Indian government doesn’t dispute this.

What did they bomb?

Any HUD/video footage?

 

[NA71]

What did they bomb?

Any HUD/video footage?

we can not do that stupid slide show that IAF did...we will show convincing evidence for the world (Not for Indian...coz you will never accept even we produce chitta of your dead pilot...you would say he is your own pilot wear Indian uniform).

 

[Maarkhoor]

That's not one word.

So took whole, if not enough tell me satisfaction is guaranteed.

 

[SQ8]

What did they bomb?

Any HUD/video footage?

We dont want to release graphic details lest they disturb Indian children with men flying around mid air in parade grounds.

 

[Tom_Cruise]

we can not do that stupid slide show that IAF did...we will show convincing evidence for the world (Not for Indian...coz you will never accept even we produce chitta of your dead pilot...you would say he is your own pilot wear Indian uniform).

It is normal to show evidence of a successful strike. No security is compromised by HUD/Video footage. The US and IDF have done this many times. It gives you credibility and weight to your statements, especially now against the heresay coming from Indians. It would give Pakistan a huge advantage in the current climate of lies and misinformation.

 

[The Eagle]

The PAF can claim all it wants or release “evidence” to whoever it deems worthy; but facts won’t change and that unless publicly verifiable evidence is available, the SU-30MKI kill is spurious, at best. If evidence exists and if it can be shared with Alan Warnes, then it should be shared with all. If not, PAF claim is the same as IAF claims.

From public point of view, an evidence is demanded so its not surprise for asking as such. However, in professional circles what PAF CAS said is not a mere claim but an established fact with evidence & proof at hand. On a suitable time & at place, will be shared and till then instead of calling it spurious we can wait a while. Furthermore IAF has been sharing everything it can to prove its false claim but totally failed while on other hand, we have few credible sources as open source acknowledging what Pakistan side says. At least PAF/CAS has no history to invite international embarrassment like India did. You will only believe when you see (proof/evidence) but it is unfair to call it fake or false at this time in view of sources such as Alan Warnes too acknowledge the fact.

 

[alphibeti]

What did they bomb?

Any HUD/video footage?

you better ask Modi to show his a$$ to you. While we busted it mercilessly, we cannot put a ticket on it now. But I heard some Indian commentators saying that Pak hit the places with the 'highest troops concentration' during the retaliatory strike on 27/2. You better ask Indian to open up the occupied J&K. Fact'll come out.

 

[HRK]

I find this whole episode has truly flipped the script on many aspects of our relationship with India. It is always the weaker conventional force that talks escalation to Nuclear weapons, missile attacks etc. If you look at prior to Feb 27 2019, you will never find an instance of India threatening to use missile attacks first on Pakistan. Its not even a consideration. Its understood that they would use conventional means and we as the relatively conventionally weaker side would consider missile attacks first. Interestingly that is where we got off the escalation ladder. Them threatening that we committed an act of war and that they were about to launch missiles. Nothing of the sort happened. The move to missile, nuclear threats and not following through (and dreams of Rafale) was utterly humiliating for them, however they try to spin this. They started off with dreams of hindu supremacy and ended with shattered egos and lies. I bet they wish they just left well enough alone like the other times.

For the highlighted part in my humble opinion even this is not a good sign though in short term it appear positive for Pakistan as post Pulwama incidents have given a glimpse of possibilities to the Indian side but on the other hand for long term it also indicate one more thing that we (both Pakistan and India) find ourselves in a situation of Stability-Instability paradox as stability at nuclear level which help to avert the situation go ugly but instability at sub strategic level (non-nuclear/conventional) brought two countries at the edge of (nuclear) war.

As you mentioned India had deployed missiles and Pakistan threaten India back to retaliate with three time the force here recall the speech of IK in National assembly in which he specifically mention that we have no mechanism to ascertain that incoming India missile is carrying nuclear payload or conventional payload. This uncertainty could lead to undesirable and scary future.

Post Pulwama Incidents are the practical example of Stability-Instability Paradox and have proved two things

1- Instability at sub-conventional level could increase instability at conventional level which could disturb the stability at strategic level

2- Stability at Strategic level (nuclear) could work most of the time as evident in this case as well but COULD NOT WORK EVERY TIME

Their soldiers have not been so unprofessional in the past at least in dealing with us as opposed to their counterinsurgency activities (although there is a history of fake awards with them). Even Abhinandan was professional in his behaviour after being shot down and after being back in India. I feel the fake surgical strikes of 2016 made them even less professional and more an extension of the Modi government. The DGMO claiming "surgical strikes" when nothing of the sort happened showed their unprofessionalism and politisization. Pakistan had, within weeks, paid them back many times over across the LOC as can be read from their papers. Many Indian LOC bunkers were terrified of being sniped sapping already low morale. Their IAF top leadership continuous parroting F16 nonsense has also exposed their lack of professionalism and politicization of the IAF. Its sad that Abhinandan will be considered for a significant award (based on downing an F16) which many from their forces have had the honour to die fighting for. It is no water off my back as a Pakistani but it does dishonour their own heroes from the past. I am sure he feels ashamed being considered on that basis - as any honorouble person would.

few years I during my conversation with an Indian member asked a question (which is relevant with current situation)
Who is required to prove their patriotism after every 5 years Armed Forces or Politicians ...???

This is exactly what is happening in Indian but this is NOT the real issue, the real issue is the Domestic Politics of India which not only effecting the Armed forces of India but now threatening the regional stability

 

[Ozee]

View attachment 555444

Details have emerged that in the 27th February aerial conflict, the Indian Air Force SU-30 was first to be hit by Squadron Leader Hassan Siddiqui and the MiG-21 was shot down later by Wing Commander Nauman Ali. It's worth noting that by Indian pilot Wing Commander Abhinandan's own admission, he was shot down within 90 seconds of entering into the dogfight. AMRAAM missile has a flight time of about 120 seconds.
This encounter also proved how badly the IAF is organised.
Take the ground environment around LOC for example. Every time one side carries out a ceasefire violation, it inevitably expects retaliation from the other side thus takes all the necessary measures to avoid being caught in the open to prevent loss and damage. The IAF was boasting that it had carried out what it called surgical strikes inside Pakistan during the middle of night. The PAF replied with daring daylight raids on six Indian ground targets without any challenge from the IAF and when it eventually realised what was happening, it ended up losing at least three aircraft, two due to PAF's actions. After it's previous day bravado, the IAF should have been prepared to counter such an eventuality but as promised it was completely surprised and defeated on all levels.

Oh ..its a failure of IAF ... Actually they dont have guts to shot us ...