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90 Seconds Over LOC

I agree with all, what you have said, except that Pakistan has not officially claimed the shooting down of SU30. It has. DG(ISPR) has claimed shooting down of 2 aircrafts. Alan, referring interview with PAF Chief, has reported downing of SU30 and Pakistan has not refuted or denied that report. It makes it official.
A presser by PAF cheif or representative claiming an su-30mki kill sounds like official

It warrants a visit to history and making tall claims. Recent clash has settled pretty much standard as how to judge PAF V/s IAF. From Retd. AM Shaid Latif to everyone, having close links or being an Ex-PAF confirmed. Also, ISPR himself mentioned two kills by PAF and Heli wasn't our shot.

Secondly, Alan Warnes recently met with PAF CAS and he himself disclosed about SU-30 being shot by PAF. The claim wasn't made just like that but saw enough proof when he asked PAF for. What Alan has to do in this all or praise PAF? In fact the person like Alan Warnes wouldn't compromise over his own credibility in aviation world especially his reporting credibility in certain matters.

Do we ever found PAF in habit to make claims and go blazing like IAF did in this whole episode? Also, it was a nervous breakdown for IAF that didn't challenge PAF anymore and despite all that false sense of superiority (MKI being Mini Awacs & Asian Raptor) did not attempt to make it even for India. How come MODI felt the absence of Rafale when IAF was already flying superior A/C in shape of MKI (Qualitatively & in quantity as well). The thing is, both of kills delivered a blow that adversary did not dare to come back or continue chase rather went back to home most probably licking wounds and planning further. I can safely assume that further surprises by way of more evidence or any possible leak, will make its way but on right day & right time. It is indeed a highly valued evidence in multiple dimension. Oh by the way, right on the evening of 27/2, Russian MoFA was in Islamabad and met few people behind the doors.
Ok sir.
 
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It warrants a visit to history and making tall claims. Recent clash has settled pretty much standard as how to judge PAF V/s IAF. From Retd. AM Shaid Latif to everyone, having close links or being an Ex-PAF confirmed. Also, ISPR himself mentioned two kills by PAF and Heli wasn't our shot.

Secondly, Alan Warnes recently met with PAF CAS and he himself disclosed about SU-30 being shot by PAF. The claim wasn't made just like that but saw enough proof when he asked PAF for. What Alan has to do in this all or praise PAF? In fact the person like Alan Warnes wouldn't compromise over his own credibility in aviation world especially his reporting credibility in certain matters.

Do we ever found PAF in habit to make claims and go blazing like IAF did in this whole episode? Also, it was a nervous breakdown for IAF that didn't challenge PAF anymore and despite all that false sense of superiority (MKI being Mini Awacs & Asian Raptor) did not attempt to make it even for India. How come MODI felt the absence of Rafale when IAF was already flying superior A/C in shape of MKI (Qualitatively & in quantity as well). The thing is, both of kills delivered a blow that adversary did not dare to come back or continue chase rather went back to home most probably licking wounds and planning further. I can safely assume that further surprises by way of more evidence or any possible leak, will make its way but on right day & right time. It is indeed a highly valued evidence in multiple dimension. Oh by the way, right on the evening of 27/2, Russian MoFA was in Islamabad and met few people behind the doors.

The PAF can claim all it wants or release “evidence” to whoever it deems worthy; but facts won’t change and that unless publicly verifiable evidence is available, the SU-30MKI kill is spurious, at best. If evidence exists and if it can be shared with Alan Warnes, then it should be shared with all. If not, PAF claim is the same as IAF claims.
 
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A presser by PAF cheif or representative claiming an su-30mki kill sounds like official

A presser by DG(ISPR) would be as much official. But, you are right, that in the "strict sense", it is still somewhat less than official. Not the 2 kills, but SU30. Obviously, there is something significant, which is stopping Pakistan from coming "straight", on this matter, including the presentation of the requisite proof.
 
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We even bombed their areas, we crossed LOC with 24 jets and went back unharmed. IAF also admitted we crossed LOC... Where is super power ? I thought they were taking about two fronts wars.
What happend so called 200 mini AWACs such as Su30Mki. They were saying it 3rd best fighter after F22 & F35.
It is not their area , it is our area that India has forcefully occupied .Indians have deleted most of their videos regarding Paf attack on Indian brigade head quarter .The Eye witness across the Loc witnessed the Bombing run by Paf fighter jets .

SU-30MKI avionics were proved inferior to those of F-16s , there is no denying that. But one being shot down is another thing. Why shouldn't we judge PAF with the standard we set for IAF?


Yeah I agree. Indian conventional bluff was shattered to some extent.


That's exactly what I am saying. Everything is circumstantial. PAF hasn't officially claimed this kill. ISPR is doing all the talking. Amraam piece only added to the misery of that face saving presser by IAF.

The Aim-120 debris indicated it hit the target .
 
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Just FYI...is it true?
upload_2019-4-24_8-29-21.png
 
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this thinking was not limited to just their top tier decision making body but it was prevailing in their general masses as well (and I believe this thinking still exist in some of their circles)

I agree 100 percent and the masses can believe what they want. It's just that we are both rational actors. Most countries - North Korea, USA etc, are all rational. There are irrational individuals within them but there are always "adults in the room." They bring everyone back to the ground. They can believe in their conventional superiority all they want, but their military knows very well our capabilities and what we can do to them.

In the past whether it was the parliament attack or the Mumbai attacks, their military held them back. In the parliament attack it was lack of cold start and Pakistani corp's reaching their defensive positions early amongst other things. Later in 2008 it was because of their army chief told their prime minister that they would potentially lose territory. Both places their military had informed the politicians that "we can attack but there will be consequences on us."

Their soldiers have not been so unprofessional in the past at least in dealing with us as opposed to their counterinsurgency activities (although there is a history of fake awards with them). Even Abhinandan was professional in his behaviour after being shot down and after being back in India. I feel the fake surgical strikes of 2016 made them even less professional and more an extension of the Modi government. The DGMO claiming "surgical strikes" when nothing of the sort happened showed their unprofessionalism and politisization. Pakistan had, within weeks, paid them back many times over across the LOC as can be read from their papers. Many Indian LOC bunkers were terrified of being sniped sapping already low morale. Their IAF top leadership continuous parroting F16 nonsense has also exposed their lack of professionalism and politicization of the IAF. Its sad that Abhinandan will be considered for a significant award (based on downing an F16) which many from their forces have had the honour to die fighting for. It is no water off my back as a Pakistani but it does dishonour their own heroes from the past. I am sure he feels ashamed being considered on that basis - as any honorouble person would.

I find this whole episode has truly flipped the script on many aspects of our relationship with India. It is always the weaker conventional force that talks escalation to Nuclear weapons, missile attacks etc. If you look at prior to Feb 27 2019, you will never find an instance of India threatening to use missile attacks first on Pakistan. Its not even a consideration. Its understood that they would use conventional means and we as the relatively conventionally weaker side would consider missile attacks first. Interestingly that is where we got off the escalation ladder. Them threatening that we committed an act of war and that they were about to launch missiles. Nothing of the sort happened. The move to missile, nuclear threats and not following through (and dreams of Rafale) was utterly humiliating for them, however they try to spin this. They started off with dreams of hindu supremacy and ended with shattered egos and lies. I bet they wish they just left well enough alone like the other times.
 
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Let us be fair...

IAF conducted Indian sir-jee-kal strike that is why it killed Pak Trees and murdered a local crow (#AvengeCrowNow)

PAF conducted Pak Air Strike and killed Su30/Mig21 and much more...

Let us keep the Lips of Wisdom Sealed...

#ThuderAllTheWay

Killed India's superiority complex, honor, integrity and ego.

Is that the maximum flight time or optimum firing range?-"AMRAAM missile has a flight time of about 120 seconds."
 
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SU-30MKI claim is also BS until proven otherwise.
So CAS is spewing bullshit to international media by claiming PAF downed a yummm kayyyy yaaaeeee? The news is correct and will be proven to be correct. There is at least one Mig21 that was also lost around the same time in IOJK so the party for PAF was not just 2 kills however these 2 are confirmed kills.
A
 
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The PAF can claim all it wants or release “evidence” to whoever it deems worthy; but facts won’t change and that unless publicly verifiable evidence is available, the SU-30MKI kill is spurious, at best. If evidence exists and if it can be shared with Alan Warnes, then it should be shared with all. If not, PAF claim is the same as IAF claims.
The PAF Air chief has confirmed it in an interview with Alan Warnes and also shared the evidence.
Obviously all the details will be published in a forthcoming issue of AFM or some other military aviation magazine.
I understand PAF is also going to give a press brief on the whole affair.
In any case, i don't believe such news would be spread across worldwide web by a reputable journalist without confirmation.
 
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