9\11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB

[Chogy]

Good job moderators. The original "911wasaninsidejob" joined the forum ONLY to hash this out. He had zero posts, then dived right into this thread. Tried a second time. It's some fat, greasy whack-job with no life who wants to spread his gospel according to himself.

 

[r3alist]

As you wish...

A sign from Heaven

yes, i was waiting for you to post that and it is a step improvement in what you were previously posting - because now you are no longer comparing an apple and an orange but more like an apple and a pear.

you fail to note two significant differences.


1. it was found within the rubble - that is to say it would be consistent with what you would expect, however the PASSPORT WAS FOUND A FEW BLOCKS AWAY, THIS MEANS IT HAD A MAGIC TRAJECTORY THAT BYPASSED THE BUILDING AND EXPLOSIONS AND LANDED IN TACT/

2. card was a found a year later, not a few days after the incident but months after the destruction within the rubble - as you would expect.

the passport was found in the middle of the pavement a few days after the incident - how did it get there? how come it was missed for a few days?


these are two gaping differences.

This is why we should doubt your claim that you work with statistics every day.

you actually mean to say probability

The fact that a hijacker's passport survived is what galled you.

please refer to the above two points, its not just that it survived, its the manner of its survival

Terror Attack - Page 1 - News - New York - Village Voice

kind of reinforces my point - why do you think bits of humans were found but not ENTIRE humans?

 

[ptldM3]

1. it was found within the rubble - that is to say it would be consistent with what you would expect, however the PASSPORT WAS FOUND A FEW BLOCKS AWAY, THIS MEANS IT HAD A MAGIC TRAJECTORY THAT BYPASSED THE BUILDING AND EXPLOSIONS AND LANDED IN TACT/

In case you missed it here was my reply to your passport debacle:

I hope you know that there were drivers licenses found from passengers. Now to 'rationally debunk' you about the passports, both aircraft hit the wtc at extremely high rates of speed, it took milliseconds from the time of impact to the time the aircraft debris exited the other sides of the buildings. The energy as well as the shockwave from the explosion expelled debris including passports, to put it in simple terms no passport, wallet, or ID will sustain major damage if it's exposed to a brief fire. Moreover, items such as passports, ID's ect, are usually stored in luggage which would protect the items from outside forces.

Two holes in each building coupled with the explosion’s shockwave expelled debris....nothing magical about that.

As far as passports being discovered in rubble, that is nothing amazing either, when both aircraft impacted the debris spread through out the impact zone, it's important to not that some parts around the impact zone were not effected by the fire.

the passport was found in the middle of the pavement a few days after the incident - how did it get there? how come it was missed for a few days?

See above explanation.

kind of reinforces my point - why do you think bits of humans were found but not ENTIRE humans?

Tell me how do you expect to find intact human remains after two passenger jets traveling at ~300-500 mph impacted--literally shattered the passengers bodies, whatever remains that were left were burned and lastly further decapitated by the collapsing buildings.

 

[r3alist]

I hope you know that there were drivers licenses found from passengers. Now to 'rationally debunk' you about the passports, both aircraft hit the wtc at extremely high rates of speed, it took milliseconds from the time of impact to the time the aircraft debris exited the other sides of the buildings. The energy as well as the shockwave from the explosion expelled debris including passports, to put it in simple terms no passport, wallet, or ID will sustain major damage if it's exposed to a brief fire. Moreover, items such as passports, ID's ect, are usually stored in luggage which would protect the items from outside forces.

extremely high speeds? hardly - 500-600 is not extremely high.

the planes did not penetrate the buildings from one end to another you dimwit.

the cockpit smashed against one of the steel columns inside the hollow part of the building where it was destroyed.

explain the trajectory of the passport, where exactly did it exit?
through an elevator shaft?

Tell me how do you expect to find intact human remains after two passenger jets traveling at ~300-500 mph impacted--literally shattered the passengers bodies, whatever remains that were left were burned and lastly further decapitated by the collapsing buildings.

replace humans with passport and then you have an idea of what i am on about

 

[ptldM3]

extremely high speeds? hardly - 500-600 is not extremely high.

I knew a person that was involved in a aircraft accident traveling less than ~100mph and his body (bones) were shattered. Even high speed automobile accidents have know to tear a persons head of, literally.

the planes did not penetrate the buildings from one end to another you dimwit.

Watch some video's of the impact, upon impact the explosions exited the other sides of the buildings, to further debunk you, parts of the aircraft such as landing gears were found on the streets, and the only reason for this was because they went through the structure.

What about this picture? I suppose the two holes in the building are a conspiracy to.




And this picture.




And what about the debris? Is that a conspiracy to? Is it difficult to grasp the concept that some of that debris is from the aircraft?

the cockpit smashed against one of the steel columns inside the hollow part of the building where it was destroyed.

explain the trajectory of the passport, where exactly did it exit?
through an elevator shaft?

It does not matter if the cockpit smashed against a column, the force of impact and pressure wave will in cause debris to spread. It will not just stop as you so arrogantly think

The width of the column is also not mentioned either is the exact impact zone, mind enlightening everyone about it?

 

[r3alist]

upon impact the explosion exited the other sides of the building, to further debunk you, parts of the aircraft such as landing gears were found on the streets.

err the explosion and the plane are two different things.

It does not matter if the cockpit smashed against a column, the force of impact and pressure wave will in cause debris to spread. It will not just stop as you so arrogantly think

ofcourse it matters because the guy was meant to be flying the plane was in the cockpit - and he would have been one of the first people to be burnt and exploded to death - so would his passport, you are implying that the momentum of the crash carried the passport, well what was the momentum carrying it into? a hole on the other side of the building?


no sir, it would be the building itself, through what hole did the passport escape - how can you be sure of its trajectory - if it had any at all? you just dont know do you so why not admit it - that you have no idea and you are guessing!!


the only arrogant suggestion is that the passport had an unbelievable trajectory where it was not touched by anything.

not touched by the fire

not touched by the explosion

not touched by the building



then it lands on the street intact.


then no one see's it for a few days.


then someone spots it.

 

[ptldM3]

err the explosion and the plane are two different things.

err your arguments are weak, in order for an explosion to accure and come out of the other side of the building an exit hole has to be present. Based off of photographs we also know that the explosion and exit hole expelled debris. I also never said that an explossion and a plane are the same thing, but nice try at deflecting an argument that you have clearly lost.

ofcourse it matters because the guy was meant to be flying the plane was in the cockpit - and he would have been one of the first people to be burnt and exploded to death - so would his passport, you are implying that the momentum of the crash carried the passport, well what the momentum carrying it into? a hole on the other side of the building?

Not all parts of the aircraft collided with steel columns, further the debris behind the impact as well as the force generated from the aircraft's velocity and pressure wake will and did push out debris. And fuel tanks are located in the wings so you are wrong about the terrorists being the first to burn.

no sir, it would be the building itself, through what hole did the passport escape -

There is only one hole the debris could have exited and that would be the exit hole that the heavier parts of the aircraft punched out.

how can you be sure of its trajectory - if it had any at all? you just dont know do you so why not admit it - that you have no idea and you are guessing!!

Now you are just being naive, how many trajectories do you think there was? There was two holes in each building, an entrance and exit hole, the direction of travel and pressure wake would tell you that most of the debris was expelled from the exit hole, it also makes sense that the passports were expelled along with other debris that was seen coming out of the exit hole. So, yes, it can be approximated where the debris and passport would likely end up, as for tracing the passports trajectory inch-by inch, that is impossible.

Here is a recreation of the impact made by scientists at Purdue, this is about as accurate as we can get based on evidence, you will find that some parts of the aircraft avoided columns, and that aircraft parts did indeed exit the structure:

http://news.uns.purdue.edu/mov/2007/HoffmannWTC.mov

the only arrogant suggestion is that the passport had an unbelievable trajectory where it was not touched by anything.

not touched by the fire

not touched by the explosion

not touched by the building

No one said it was not touched, the passport likely did go through the fire ball and it likely was 'touched' but that mean little because the impact happened quickly. For instance, move your hand over a fire, you will notice that as long as you keep moving your hand you will not feel pain, nor will you get burned.

then it lands on the street intact.


then no one see's it for a few days.

Do you have any idea how much debris was littered through the streets? The passport was one of millions of other pieces of debris scattered on the streets.

Take a look:



It also appears that this photograph was taken before the collapse of the WTC building in the background. Your argument has many flaws, firstly the debris field was spread out through many blocks, secondly, as I stated before, there was millions of pieces of debris and much of it was covered in dust, lastly authorities focused on search and rescue, so picking up bits of paper was the last priority.

Another flaw in your argument is the passports themselves, conspiracy theorists link 911 to the war in Iraq, yet none of the hijackers were Iraqi! This makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[abdullahk]

Steel will become more malleable under heat.So its tensile strength will gradually decrease with the increase of heat right???

no sir steel will be steel unless if you heat it up enought . but that can only happen in a controled fire eg. furnace

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

9\11 was an inside job,ELVIS is alive ..... and im OSAMA!!

 

[FreekiN]

then it lands on the street intact.


then no one see's it for a few days.


then someone spots it.

Ask someone who saw the chunks of human flesh on the ground anything. [my uncle]

and ill ask him

 

[TruthSeeker]

Dumb de dumb dumb ....DUMB!

 

[gambit]

yes, i was waiting for you to post that and it is a step improvement in what you were previously posting - because now you are no longer comparing an apple and an orange but more like an apple and a pear.

This is why your argument is deceptive as well as inappropriate. You will demand nothing less than an article called a 'passport'. No different than I could claim that God, not chance, who deposited a unique snowflake on my nose. If one hijacker's passport were planted and later 'found' in the towers' remains, why did we not plant more to further strengthened our argument? What if other incriminating evidences were discovered by others but never recognized to be incriminating and discarded?

you fail to note two significant differences.


1. it was found within the rubble - that is to say it would be consistent with what you would expect, however the PASSPORT WAS FOUND A FEW BLOCKS AWAY, THIS MEANS IT HAD A MAGIC TRAJECTORY THAT BYPASSED THE BUILDING AND EXPLOSIONS AND LANDED IN TACT/

2. card was a found a year later, not a few days after the incident but months after the destruction within the rubble - as you would expect.

the passport was found in the middle of the pavement a few days after the incident - how did it get there? how come it was missed for a few days?

The time they were found are irrelevant. The fact is that the passport and the ATM card are similar in many characteristics and both survived, thereby debunked your argument that such small items cannot survive. Firefighters routinely find small personal items after a house fire.

kind of reinforces my point - why do you think bits of humans were found but not ENTIRE humans?

No...It does not reinforces your argument. The issue here is that despite such a catastrophic event, small items, be they individuals or parts of a whole, survived. This line of argument is why the '9/11 Truth' movement is slowly dying. You focused on one item, like this passport, like a dog on a bone, and ignored everything else that debunked you.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Stupeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed!

 

[nForce]

no sir steel will be steel unless if you heat it up enought . but that can only happen in a controled fire eg. furnace

I am not saying that it will cease to be steel.

The collision of a heavy object like a jumbo jet flying at a great speed,the explosion that followed due to ignition of thousands of lires of aviation grade fuel will create of lot of heat within a very short interval.The WTC towers mainly contained offices which are full of inflammable substances like wood,rubber,plastic,foam etc.

So, a great amount of heat will be transferred to the steel beams as steel has good conductivity.There will not be much other sources to transfer the heat away from the steel beams.Air or concrete are bad conductors of heat,while steel is a really good one.
So,heat transferred to the steel beams will be more than heat lost by them.
Now,as temperature rises,steel starts loosing its tensile strength.Its load carrying capacity is reduced by as much as half at around 1100 degree farenheit.Even a household fire reaches that temperature,let alone the massive fire in WTC towers.
A time will come when the steel beam will start to buckle.A point has to be noted that the steel beams are not standing on their own.They are under the load of many floors above it.

The process will be like a chain reaction.Once a single beam buckles,it is not standing perpendicular to the ground any more.The load above it will make it buckle faster.This will affect other beams.Eventually the whole structure will go down.

If you look at the video of how WTC towers fall,then you will find out the same thing...It starts crumbling down slowly,then it picks up pace,with the load gradually increasing as welll,and finally it comes down at an immense rate.


Have a look at the picture below.The shiny thing that you see running down the street is basically molten metal as a result of a wildfire.

 

[r3alist]

This is why your argument is deceptive as well as inappropriate. You will demand nothing less than an article called a 'passport'. No different than I could claim that God, not chance, who deposited a unique snowflake on my nose. If one hijacker's passport were planted and later 'found' in the towers' remains, why did we not plant more to further strengthened our argument? What if other incriminating evidences were discovered by others but never recognized to be incriminating and discarded?

it seems you dont understand the concept of a fair experiment.

you want to compare two events and say that one event is not so unlikely because its happened elsewhere, therefore its not so much of an anomaly - that is your argument.

you need to come out and admit something straight up and be honest - there is nothing you know of that is similar the passport

nothing that had the same trajectory and went through the same improbable hurdles to survive.

The time they were found are irrelevant. The fact is that the passport and the ATM card are similar in many characteristics and both survived, thereby debunked your argument that such small items cannot survive. Firefighters routinely find small personal items after a house fire.

when did i say small items cannot survive


i said its EXTREMELY unlikely that a passport can survive an inferno, survive an explosion, go through a building and land in tact on the road side - where it was missed by everyone for a few days, then it was mysteriously found.



now that did not happen to the credit card did it - the credit card behaved as expected - it had no magic blessed trajectory did it - thats what you miss.



and you know it - you are scared of admitting that this was a strange occurrence