73 killed as Maoists ambush CRPF team

[Jungle]

here are my 2 cents:
First of all it would be better if we can understand that the naxalite problem is rather a political problem than a military one. It is a well known reality that naxalites have a strong public backing in the tribal and backward regions. Starting an offensive in the region will only further alienating the tribals and forcing them to take up arms. It is in our own interest that we acknowledge the political and social backwardness faced by peoplein these regions and arrive at a settlement which is acceptable to the locals. That is what democracy is all about. I am not defending what they did. Militancy must stop. All i am sayin is that i see a very slim chance forpeace if a military action is taken.

 

[manish123]

Keep my comment to myself.........hey, thi is a forum, if you dont like people participating, then you F off, dont tell others too.

What is you problem.......if you don't like Pakistanis participating then please go join another forum elsewhere......

My point with regards to this is a clear Military tactic, practised by paramilitaries also, which I have posted already is as follows:

This is similar to the kidnapping of a hundred Pakistani soldiers, and when investigated, it was found that procedures were just not followed.....PA has never repeated that fiasco again, as will the Indians, I doubt they will make this make twice.

It is quite straight forward to assume that when on any route back to camp, (a) do not use the same route back to camp which is most obvious (b) if this route is to be used then a scout is used, either a sniper who has stalked the ground before the convoy passage, (this is highly unlikely as they are not on hostile ground), or a front scout on foot, a motorbike, quad or even a bluddy chopper to scan the area before hand.

Quite clearly, when you are passing through a valley, this is a hotbed for an ambush, you do not need to be a military tactical expert to know that, as unfortunately the soldiers walked into the enemy "kill zone". Once you have entered the k.z. you are not going to come out alive, that is an unfortunate reality.

Head will clearly role for this blunder and procedures will be definately be followed in future, only down side is, it cost 70 soldiers for the Indian Army to buck up.

------------

Now please try and grow up, I have not made fun of anything in this thread and added my views and experience in combat myself to shed some light, if you dont like that then go and discuss it in a little village somewhere where you live, not here

Whose heads thats the question, the shameless politocos have their head saved.

 

[manish123]

And how do you know that they were not provided for? Drones, UAV from where? Even IA does not have this. Intelligence.. so he should gather this personly and hand it over to all commanders personly right. In every setup there are diff ppl and they have diff roles. I suggest you just look up what all Home Ministry supposed to do. Even he recently talked abt creating diff department to handle mundane stuff.
And even he knows that these are required but CRPF head says they can start operation without them then what?
And no Shastri Ji didn't became PM because he resigned from RM. He was the acceptable candidate for both faction after Nehru. And again, resigning is easy. Facing the problem and fixing it is difficult.

If these incidents happen regularly and he unable to counter them, than yes, he should go. No because of one-off incident.

If it seems to u that they were provided for then I guess there is little to say.and shatriji was acceptable to factions in large part bcause of the honesty he had shown as R.M

 

[Mahakaya]

HERE ARE THE BASTARDS!

http://beta.thehindu.com/news/states/article389977.ece

Four top Maoist cadres from Andhra Pradesh could have planned the Chhattisgarh ambush that saw the killing of 74 jawans of the Central Reserve Police Force.

Sources believe that four Central Committee members hailing from the State are behind the attack. The leaders are: Katakam Sudarshan alias Anand, head of the Central Regional Bureau (CRB), Kadari Satyanarayan Reddy alias Kosa, secretary of the Dandakaranya Special Zonal committee (DKSZC), Thippiri Tirupathi alias Devuji, who guides the CRB in military issues and Mallojula Venugopal alias Bhupati, a member of the CRB and in charge of Dandakaranya.

While Katakam Sudarshan hails from Adilabad district, the other three leaders are from Karimnagar district in Andhra Pradesh. Mallojula Venugopal is the brother of Mallojula Koteshwar Rao or Kishanji, the chief architect of the Lalgarh resistance movement in West Bengal.

The Tuesday attack also signals the commencement of a Tactical Counter Offensive Campaign (TCOC), if one were to take into consideration another major attack in Koraput of Orissa on April 4 killing 11 personnel of the Special Operations Group (SOG).

Intelligence agencies had issued an alert last week that the TCOC could begin from April 15 onwards. The TCOC means Maoists would resort to intensified attacks on security forces and enemies of the revolutionary movement to spread as much confusion as possible. The launch of the TCOC is an attempt to blunt the initiative of Operation Greenhunt.

Counter-insurgency experts analysing the Chhattisgarh massacre say that the CRPF company was led to a death trap. It was returning to its camp after a three-day operation, when it came under attack from three sides leaving a flank open. This forced the trapped security forces to believe that it was safe to escape through that side.

However, the seemingly ‘safe passage' was heavily mined and rebels with Light Machine Guns (LMGs) lay in ambush at a distance. The jawans walked into the trap only to be mowed down by machine gun fire, Andhra Pradesh officials who are in touch with their Chhattisgarh counterparts said.

The CRPF combing operation involved some 4000 personnel and began three days ago on the fringes of Abuz Maad, the military nerve centre of the Maoists in Southern Chhattisgarh.

The attack has surprised counter-insurgency experts as they were under the impression that five companies of the People's Liberation Guerrilla Army (PLGA), (the fighting unit of the Maoists) had been moved out of Abuz Maad in Bastar, ever since the Centre began mobilising forces for Operation Greenhunt. At least one PLGA company is believed to have participated in the ambush.

 

[Gazzi]

Whose heads thats the question, the shameless politocos have their head saved.

The Commander of the CRPF at the time of the incident......had he sent a scout in good time then this could have been avoided......clearly he didn't as they walked into a KZ

 

[ramu]

This is totally ridicules and must be stopped. Chitambram is a total wimp and he must resign after such as incident. The army must be sent into these areas now and we must give back to them in the same language they know. Each and everyone of these bastard’s must be shot, talking and negotiating period is over. This snake must be crushed before the bites all of us.

Desiman, we cannot simply send the army for an internal domestic problem unless the state asks for military intervention. So I don't think Chidambaram is the only person to blame. However, I will expect PC to quit on moral grounds. This is a good chance to get the army into the game and the naxal problem will be crushed.

 

[manish123]

The Commander of the CRPF at the time of the incident......had he sent a scout in good time then this could have been avoided......clearly he didn't as they walked into a KZ

agreed but What about the home minister who hadnt provided Bpj, drones, radars, radio sets, intelligence etc. sending these soldiers into the jungle at the time of his choosing where ambush is the main weapon the naxalites use and in a country where money on defence is not a problem, such basic things were not provided for..

 

[Gazzi]

agreed but What about the home minister who hadnt provided Bpj, drones, radars, radio sets, intelligence etc. sending these soldiers into the jungle at the time of his choosing where ambush is the main weapon the naxalites use and in a country where money on defence is not a problem, such basic things were not provided for..

If you start providing all that then you may as well send in the Military itself......the CRPF may well be a paramilitary force but capable of dealing with the issue if co-ordinated with other agencies, i.e. RAW or similar set ups.....Leaders of the Naxals can be taken out causing a breakdown in command and control.....

The role of the CRPF is clearly to simply contain the situation i.e. Naxals, so that the growth of the economy is not hindered by a much more powerful Naxal group allowing Indias a chance to grow in strength allowing it to invest in those areas where greviounces are bringing forth sympathetic young Moaists........Remember, India is a growing economy, but it has a long way to go to make a difference in all parts of India, like it or not, there are people in India eating rats at the moment to get by..........this can only change when a strong economy holds, and nothing can be allowed to infect that yet, not even a small Maoist problem

 

[prithwidw]

just a question.
who in ur gov is taking wat stand? and on wat basis? just want to know the parties and their point of views regarding this issue

All are in support. I doubt Trinamool Congress. But whatever be the case, Central Govt. needs to take some stern action, so that an example can be made out of those damn terrorists.

---------- Post added at 12:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:19 AM ----------

ok. ill ask some other time in some other thread. bye

I answered your post. Please feel free to ask anything. And do not go by moron's posts.

Thank You.

 

[Nemesis]

Hari seldon? Aren't you that Hindutva nut job that posts on imdb and that right-wing Indian defence forum which i shall not name? Forgive me for not giving a damn what you think.

As for the rest, i have exams so can't give a detailed reply now. Tomorrow morning perhaps. However in response to the member who posted that those lands belong to the people of India....aren't tribals people of India? Or have you disowned them? The 5th schedule of the Indian constitution states that those lands belong to the tribals. The number of tribals is not in the 1000's either, its more in the range of millions. Get your facts straight before debating with me.

One more tidbit, according to the Home Ministry, multiple agreements (don't recall the exact number just now) have been signed with foreign mining corporations, since the late 90s, for them to mine in these areas. Doesnt it feel a bit coincidental that the former corporate board member of Vedanta and now home minister of India is at the centre stage of this fight against the maoists? Is it really about fighting the Maoists or is it about kicking tribals from their lands?

When Our PM made the statement that Maoists are the biggest security threat we face, the stocks of the mining companies went up significantly. The next day, a newspaper carried a picture of a so called Maoist guerrilla on its front page, he was armed to the teeth with bows and arrows. Greatest security threat indeed.

 

[prithwidw]

Read my post again. I have said who should made these. Here layman are talking abt carpet bombing the jungles. Do you think this is the right way?
His job as a minister is to provide leadership. To provide what is asked by Parra forces. TO make sure they get what they need. How he will know what is required, what quantity is required, what quality is required? Its not his job. He can ask the CRPF head what he needs. Its the duty of those heading CRPF to tell HM what they need.

And as I said, if instead of resigning Shastri Ji had worked to make IR more competent, IR would have been different org today.

Are you out of your mind?

 

[Mirza Jatt]

Keep my comment to myself.........hey, thi is a forum, if you dont like people participating, then you F off, dont tell others too.

I like people participating when they have the idea of what is the topic. and hey , did I tell u F Off ??

What is you problem.......if you don't like Pakistanis participating then please go join another forum elsewhere...

Pakistan ???? are you alright ??

My point with regards to this is a clear Military tactic, practised by paramilitaries also, which I have posted already is as follows:

This is similar to the kidnapping of a hundred Pakistani soldiers, and when investigated, it was found that procedures were just not followed.....PA has never repeated that fiasco again, as will the Indians, I doubt they will make this make twice.

It is quite straight forward to assume that when on any route back to camp, (a) do not use the same route back to camp which is most obvious (b) if this route is to be used then a scout is used, either a sniper who has stalked the ground before the convoy passage, (this is highly unlikely as they are not on hostile ground), or a front scout on foot, a motorbike, quad or even a bluddy chopper to scan the area before hand.

Quite clearly, when you are passing through a valley, this is a hotbed for an ambush, you do not need to be a military tactical expert to know that, as unfortunately the soldiers walked into the enemy "kill zone". Once you have entered the k.z. you are not going to come out alive, that is an unfortunate reality....

(a)The CRPF party was using vehicles for the offensive opreation and there was only one route to use them (and why use them,read the second point)
(a)who told you no scout was used?? the CRPF was informed by the intelligence deptt (who plans out the target area for search operation and gives related intelligence information on it) about the presence of naxalite in the the jungles of Talmetla..the party aftr search found no naxalite there which meant that the naxalite were inside the jungle,hence they went with full force ( vehicles and a large group) inside the jungle....[it is now doubted that the local villagers are well into this plan as no naxalite was found before the party went inside the jungle afyter searching the village]and morover they were ambushed by naxals on both the sides,which means the attack was planned well before...whih reveals the failure on the part of local police and its network of intelligence...

And please remember the CRPF party that was attacked did not rcive any training on that typ of terrain.

lack of equipments, improper training and lack of proper intelligence should b blamed...dont blame the commander.
------------

Now please try and grow up, I have not made fun of anything in this thread and added my views and experience in combat myself to shed some light, if you dont like that then go and discuss it in a little village somewhere where you live, not here

Yes I have shared it in my village and they have all understood I hope a grown up man from UK will now understand it as well.

Thank you !!

 

[prithwidw]

I like people participating when they have the idea of what is the topic. and hey , did I tell u F Off ??



Pakistan ???? are you alright ??



(a)The CRPF party was using vehicles for the offensive opreation and there was only one route to use them (and why use them,read the second point)
(a)who told you no scout was used?? the CRPF was informed by the intelligence deptt (who plans out the target area for search operation and gives related intelligence information on it) about the presence of naxalite in the the jungles of Talmetla..the party aftr search found no naxalite there which meant that the naxalite were inside the jungle,hence they went with full force ( vehicles and a large group) inside the jungle....[it is now doubted that the local villagers are well into this plan as no naxalite was found before the party went inside the jungle afyter searching the village]and morover they were ambushed by naxals on both the sides,which means the attack was planned well before...whih reveals the failure on the part of local police and its network of intelligence...

And please remember the CRPF party that was attacked did not rcive any training on that typ of terrain.

lack of equipments, improper training and lack of proper intelligence should b blamed...dont blame the commander.
------------



Yes I have shared it in my village and they have all understood I hope a grown up man from UK will now understand it as well.

Thank you !!

What would you get banging your head against a wall?

Relax yaar.

 

[Jackdaws]

Sometimes I wonder if I actually live in the same country that this stuff happens in. A stern faced newscaster solemnly talks about the killing of 75 Indian soldiers and in 30 seconds the newscaster is all smiles as she talks about the IPL. The conscience of the whole nation is rotten to the core. 166 people died in the Mumbai attacks - the CM, Dy. CM and Home Minister resigned because it was the high and mighty who died. Today 75 soldiers have died - has there even been a demand for resignation? When I see the Bombay metro being constructed - I am appalled that the construction workers have no rest area so they take a nap on the concrete blocks under the nasty sun. Simply because they don't complain - isn't it the duty of the govt. to ensure that they get basic amenities? Yea - India ensures free and fair elections - but is that enough? No one wakes up one day and decides to become a Maoist. I bet 90% of the Maoists have no clue who Mao was! The politicians have always taken the tribals for a ride - where do you think the politicians have made most of their dough from? We have turned a blind eye to the plight of our own countrymen because the travails of neither the CRPF jawans nor the tribal Maoists affect us. If this is not civil war - what is? And we figure the Maoists are automatically wrong - has the Indian state always been right? It is as patriotic to question the Indian state as it is to abide by its policies and statements. That is what makes us a democracy and we should never forget that.

 

[HariSeldon]

Hari seldon? Aren't you that Hindutva nut job that posts on imdb and that right-wing Indian defence forum which i shall not name? Forgive me for not giving a damn what you think.

Hold your horces right there .... If you cann't counter the points than personal attack? What I do where does not matter? May be I am
same or you are confused? Reply what I have asked.
Don't give damn. But don't cry when CRPF reply for today's massacre.
I say it again. They forced center for green hunt. This will now toughen the resolve and response will be brutal. What were the justification for attacking the polling parties and polling booth during last election. There was no Green Hunt at that time.

As for the rest, i have exams so can't give a detailed reply now. Tomorrow morning perhaps. However in response to the member who posted that those lands belong to the people of India....aren't tribals people of India? Or have you disowned them? The 5th schedule of the Indian constitution states that those lands belong to the tribals. The number of tribals is not in the 1000's either, its more in the range of millions. Get your facts straight before debating with me.

SO who ever has any issue with Govt. should take up arms? What minning is supposed to happen in WB?

One more tidbit, according to the Home Ministry, multiple agreements (don't recall the exact number just now) have been signed with foreign mining corporations, since the late 90s, for them to mine in these areas. Doesnt it feel a bit coincidental that the former corporate board member of Vedanta and now home minister of India is at the centre stage of this fight against the maoists? Is it really about fighting the Maoists or is it about kicking tribals from their lands?

When Our PM made the statement that Maoists are the biggest security threat we face, the stocks of the mining companies went up significantly. The next day, a newspaper carried a picture of a so called Maoist guerrilla on its front page, he was armed to the teeth with bows and arrows. Greatest security threat indeed.

And 75 CRPF jawans were killed by the foreign minning companies?