7 US troops wounded in Afghanistan, as protests against Koran burnings cont

[Alienoz_TR]

Americans killed over 1.000.000 Muslims directly or indirectly, because they lost 3.000 in 9/11 false flag attack. i bet thats a Fair response.

 

[graphican]

I support no voilance but I am happy for Americans facing the music. the sooner they hand over criminals the better it would be for them.. there is no easy way out. its upon them which hard-way they choose but as a Pakistani, I really want them not to hand-over those criminals and would rather vanish altogether. They are a cancer wherever they are and the treatment of cancer is complete cleansing.

 

[Chogy]

Apparently, the Qurans were being used to pass messages among prisoners.

Chogy you are more intelligent than me, so it is funny that I even have to explain it to you.

Is it the physical act of burning the Quaran that enraged Afghans, or the symbolic act?

You know the answer yourself.

The symbolic act? Where in this entire episode was there any symbolism?

If the goal was to "make some political statement", the Qurans would be burned with due ceremony, with grave pronouncements like "We are at war with Islam. We burn these Qurans as we will burn this religion from the face of the earth." Absolutely ludicrous.

If there was symbolism, there would have been NO APOLOGY. Did Hitler's goons apologize during their symbolic book burnings? Where in the history of book burnings did the perpetrator ever apologize?

It is interesting that no one addressed my digital Quran question. What happens if I upload a copy of the Quran to my iPad, and then treat my iPad with disrespect, or delete the copy?

 

[SQ8]

It is interesting that no one addressed my digital Quran question. What happens if I upload a copy of the Quran to my iPad, and then treat my iPad with disrespect, or delete the copy?

Deleting the copy is one thing.. as it is the same as returning a book to the library..
But its based more on intentions than anything..
Did you delete it because you felt you were not reading it anyway?
Did you delete it because you needed the space for a game or movie?
Did you delete it in spite thinking how useless it had become?
How god judges you is based on your heart.. and for no one to comment.

Now.. its your Ipad.. and you toss it around.. drop it... that is irrelevant.
Your Ipad may also contain movies.. games.. pornography..in lieu with this..
Is your Ipad just the Quran? .. was it made as the Quran alone?
Its not an entity.. its 1's and 0's.. It does not exist.
To copy a Quran into it or a lewd film takes the click of a button..
other than that apple's product is NOT made to be the Quran.

A Quran as a book..bound and whole.. was made to be respected..
disrespecting that is an offense on its own.

 

[gambit]

Deleting the copy is one thing.. as it is the same as returning a book to the library..
But its based more on intentions than anything..
Did you delete it because you felt you were not reading it anyway?
Did you delete it because you needed the space for a game or movie?
Did you delete it in spite thinking how useless it had become?
How god judges you is based on your heart.. and for no one to comment.

Now.. its your Ipad.. and you toss it around.. drop it... that is irrelevant.
Your Ipad may also contain movies.. games.. pornography..in lieu with this..
Is your Ipad just the Quran? .. was it made as the Quran alone?
Its not an entity.. its 1's and 0's.. It does not exist.
To copy a Quran into it or a lewd film takes the click of a button..
other than that apple's product is NOT made to be the Quran.

A Quran as a book..bound and whole.. was made to be respected..
disrespecting that is an offense on its own.

But using it to pass messages, regardless of contents of said messages, does not constitute disrespect?

 

[SQ8]

But using it to pass messages, regardless of contents of said messages, does not constitute disrespect?

Absolutely it does.. disfiguring the Quran in anyway is disrespect..
Now.. there may be a condition where this might be permitted and this I draw from my own conclusions.
i.e That Muslims are endangered.. and the survival of a fellow Muslims depends on it.

 

[gambit]

Absolutely it does.. disfiguring the Quran in anyway is disrespect..
Now.. there may be a condition where this might be permitted and this I draw from my own conclusions.
i.e That Muslims are endangered.. and the survival of a fellow Muslims depends on it.

So there is the license for muslims to excuse themselves from the same arguments they would hurl at the non-muslims.

 

[Pfpilot]

So there is the license for muslims to excuse themselves from the same arguments they would hurl at the non-muslims.

I think that is a very interesting point; by employing the Quran as means to pass messages that are meant to harm the US(an assumption on my part), these people are disrespecting the Quran and jeopardizing it's very purpose... the end result is one, they have brought upon themselves. Were the Quran being used for religious education; for it to be burned would be a great sin. Now if one is deliberately using it as a device to trade messages in secret...are we still talking about the same Quran or a weapon of espionage?
It harkens back to the whole Lal Masjid fiasco in Pakistan; when people used a mosque as their defensive fortress...they put the opposition in a bind, morally; if you attack them, you are disrespecting the religion. The situation allowed their whole act, which brought upon the military reaction in the first place, to be completely overlooked.
Essentially the same thing is happening here. A select group of Muslims have disrespected the Quran and the rest are too caught up in the US reaction to realize where the fault truly lies.

 

[gambit]

I think that is a very interesting point; by employing the Quran as means to pass messages that are meant to harm the US(an assumption on my part), these people are disrespecting the Quran and jeopardizing it's very purpose... the end result is one, they have brought upon themselves. Were the Quran being used for religious education; for it to be burned would be a great sin. Now if one is deliberately using it as a device to trade messages in secret...are we still talking about the same Quran or a weapon of espionage?
It harkens back to the whole Lal Masjid fiasco in Pakistan; when people used a mosque as their defensive fortress...they put the opposition in a bind, morally; if you attack them, you are disrespecting the religion. The situation allowed their whole act, which brought upon the military reaction in the first place, to be completely overlooked.

The solution is this: If a device, structure, or person, is used in a manner that is contrary to its original and true intent, intentional or accidental, then any protection, moral and/or legal, said device, structure, or person, may have had are forfeited.

A chaplain is not allowed to carry arms and to actively participate in combat.

Navy chaplains want right to carry weapons to protect themselves against the Taliban | Mail Online

British military chaplains in Afghanistan are urging an historic change in the rules to allow them to carry weapons when out on patrol alongside troops fighting the Taliban, because of the risk of capture.

For the first time in any theatre of conflict chaplains are no longer considered to be protected by the rules of war, because of the propaganda Taliban extremists would gain from showing "trophy" footage of a captive Christian priest.

By long tradition, clergy serving in Britain's armed forces have not carried weapons in war-zones, but now some Royal Navy Commando chaplains want to be allowed to carry a side-arm, stating that as a last resort they would rather take their own life than fall into the hands of the Taliban.

The issue has sparked an intense debate within the chaplain community, where some oppose the move on principle.

Chaplain Assistants (Religious Program Specialists)

As the only members in military service who are not authorized to carry weapons, chaplains must rely on their religious programs specialists for protection in theaters of operation.

The moment a chaplain pick up a weapon, not to toss it away to tend to an injured man, and wield it in the manner befitting a combatant, the chaplain lost ALL moral and legal protections under the accepted rules of war. Same understanding applies to schools, hospitals, ambulances and the likes. So why not a book?

 

[unicorn]

The outrage of Afghanis keeping in mind the succession of events that took place their in recent past is completely and totally logical and understandable. Regarding this so called story of passing messages between the prisoners using Quran is a blatant lie.

The story doesn't fit in as how the messages were passed. Are they referring that certain ayats or wordings in Quran are used to teach extremism (i.e pass messages) than they are actually putting fingers on the Quran as a whole.

 

[gambit]

The outrage of Afghanis keeping in mind the succession of events that took place their in recent past is completely and totally logical and understandable. Regarding this so called story of passing messages between the prisoners using Quran is a blatant lie.

The story doesn't fit in as how the messages were passed. Are they referring that certain ayats or wordings in Quran are used to teach extremism (i.e pass messages) than they are actually putting fingers on the Quran as a whole.

Right...You are telling everyone that it took US all this time to figure out how make up this lie?

 

[user1]

In the West, a human life is worth infinitely more than a book. A book can be replaced (by the millions, if necessary), whereas a human cannot.

All human beings are equal but some human beings are more equal than others; for example, Americans.

No US soldier has been put on trial for killing innocent civilians in Iraq or Afghanistan (save a few). Such acts of hypocrisy and double standards are the hallmark of American Civilization.

Remember those words, 'We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.'

Only the White Settlers were considered equal.
Life of a Negro was cheap.
Liberty for a Negro was a dream &
Pursuit of Happiness for a Negro slave meant to keep his Master happy.

The World hasn't changed much, it's was mere rhetoric then, it still is a rhetoric now. OBAMA (The Slave) is SORRY.

 

[SQ8]

So there is the license for muslims to excuse themselves from the same arguments they would hurl at the non-muslims.

Not exactly..
That condition may be an excuse.. but under what circumstances.
Are you protected fellow Muslims or are you simply furthering the cause of terrorists.
A condition is how you construe it.. Did you shell the mosque which was used by terrorists.. or did you shell the mosque to make a statement.

 

[unicorn]

Not exactly..
That condition may be an excuse.. but under what circumstances.
Are you protected fellow Muslims or are you simply furthering the cause of terrorists.
A condition is how you construe it.. Did you shell the mosque which was used by terrorists.. or did you shell the mosque to make a statement.

This is exactly the question we should be asking.

 

[gambit]

Not exactly..
That condition may be an excuse.. but under what circumstances.
Are you protected fellow Muslims or are you simply furthering the cause of terrorists.

An 'excuse' is an ad-hoc and temporary exception to the rule. Once the situation is over, the exception no longer exist. Any expectation of resurrecting the same exception to the same rule but in a different situation require review of the situation to see if all conditions are the same or at least with similarities that would push a reasonable person to favor granting exception.

A 'license', on the other hand, is not an exception to a rule but IS the rule. A 'license' grant the holder the right to act with power and authority within the larger moral and/or legal framework in situations that require flexibility in thoughts and actions. A country have a legal system. A law 'license' grant the holder the right to interpret the laws, the authority to compel people and items to act in other certain manners, and to challenge claims made by other holders of the same license. A cleric is no different in that he have a 'license' or been 'ordained' to act with authority inside another moral/legal framework. An airline captain is no different than a lawyer or the cleric in that he have the authority and even physical power to act with flexibility in thoughts and actions in a very narrowly defined moral/legal framework -- his aircraft.

A condition is how you construe it.. Did you shell the mosque which was used by terrorists.. or did you shell the mosque to make a statement.

What is there to 'construe'? If a unit of combatants use a house of religion for non-religious purposes, what is there to interpret? A rifle is an instrument of killing, whether the situation is hunting an animal for food or hunting another human being for politically motivated purposes, there is no room for interpretation on what the tool was designed and built for.

But here is a catch: If it is known that a people have a history and propensity to use devices, structures, and persons other than their original purposes and statuses, then that history and propensity can serve as a preemptive 'excuse' for others.