7 Questions to Pakistani Members : Article 370

[Pakistani Fighter]

India's

Hindu*

 

[coffee_cup]

Guys, please no need to engage in discussions with this Gangu. Just report him to the mods.
Zero tolerance for Indian propaganda on PDF.

War times!

 

[War Thunder]

1.1 What do you know about Article 370 ?
Everything there is to know but i lack the time to write it down. But in short it gave a special status to the state as agreed between the leaders of both sides back then.

1.2 Do you know that Pakistan too has initiated steps to Convert its part of Kashmir into fifth Province ?
Do you see anyone pelting stones or blowing shit up in Azad Kashmir? Do you ever hear of any gatherings demanding freedom?
Do you ever wonder why?

Article 370 was an agreement between your state and the state of jammu and kashmir. The supposed representatives of Kashmir agreed to affiliated with your state while they kept their autonomy.
There is no such deal or agreement between Azad Kashmir and Pakistan and Gilgit Baltistant is already a province of Pakistan if you didn't know.
Did we have to lock it down? Did we have to impose curfews? Did we have to harrass, rape, and kill the local population to subjugate them?
And you still act ignorant on the issue?

2. Why do you care for Kashmir ?

A. Because we are with the "People" of Kashmir and Their Rights
B. Because Kashmir is a Muslim Majority and we Care for Islam and Muslims

3. If You chose 2.A :

If you are concerned with the Rights of Kashmiris, Why is the Situation somewhat similar to Indian Kashmir ?

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019...inking-pro-freedom-space-190304091423290.html

"The government of Pakistan-administered Kashmir, known locally as Azad Jammu and Kashmir (AJK), denied that it was restricting space for pro-freedom parties, while electoral analysts said those parties have historically had marginal support in the territory."

Sums it up.

Why do we need to curb anything when it hardly even exists?

Pakistani Administered Kashmir is fully open for visitors and journalists. Why don't you go and check videos of foreign visitors and gauge for yourself instead of trying to adopt an agenda from your media?

3. If You chose 2.B :

If you really care about a Muslim Majority, And you care about Palestine as well, why Not Uigher Muslims ?

Already do and have already raised my voice for it though the situation is not clear to anyone.
Why my government doesn't and how they are dealing with China on the situation is a different thing.
Why are you so concerned about Uighurs when your own country is rapind and killing Kashmiris? Isn't that the biggest bullshit there can be that you are more interested in people not looking at when you are doing your evil and if you are caught you want to tell me some one else is also doing it? Ever heard of a cunning mind? Might wanna look into the mirror some day.

There is no comparison because Kashmir situation is, has always been pretty apparent and indian terrorist forces are a menace that needs to be removed from there.

If Uighur situation is true then they also need to be freed and I hope things will move in that direction sooner or later because the Oppressor is given freedom only so they can multiply their eveil doings. Teh punishment delivered upon them afterwards is hardest and we have seen many oppressors and their accomplices go down like rats and suffer in history.
So will india and so will China if they are oppressors.

3. C. If you choose 3.C , Then dont you think India has a better claim as the "Instrument of accession" is with India ?

Have you read the instrument of accession?
Care to read it thoroughly and see what it says? is india not in violation of this? Then what ground do you stand on to ask me what claim india has?

And india is supposedly a democrazy. Who gets to decide the fate of a people in a democrazy? A Maharaja fleeing his own population or the population of an area whose loyalties and demands are clear and that is exactly why you have a curfew there.

4. Many in the forum are claiming that despite Russia, US and France taking a stand against Pakk+China , Its a victory coz, Kashmir issue was "Internationalised" .. Your Thoughts ?

Dont you think, that Year after year...Each Speech in UNGA has the mention of Kashmir .. was it still not Internationalized ? Kargil happened in 1999 the reason was Kahsmir.. Still it was not Internationalized ?

I am not those people so I care not what they say. They are stupid, they jump up and down on every thing.

5. Article 370, was a line in Indian Constitution SINCE 1950. The Line was DELETED as per the Laws Given in Article 370 ITSELF.

How are you stupid enough to not see an issue being a dispute, accepted as a dispute. Your own leaders having gone to UN and promised a plebiscite, and still carrying the audacity to call it an internal dispute?
Why don't you as an indian citizen try going to Kashmir and live there for a week amongst Kashmiris with an indian flag? I am pretty sure they will educate you on this being an internal dispute.

6. After the UNSC meeting :

- India stays in Kashmir, the way it wants
- Pakstani cannot start a war due to Financial condition

Do you actually think Pakistan cannot start a war because of finances? And do you actually believe wars are started and won with finances?
Wait for a bit, and you my friend will learn on what Pakistan can and cannot start and how a war is fought.
How many nations came under US banner to fight the Taliban? What economics did they have and what economics did the Taliban have? Who is begging for peaceful exit now? And those are just the rag tag Taliban who know how to fight.

7. LOC is the Border Now, Pakistan keeps its part of AJK, India now keeps Its part of Kashmir.

LOC is "Cease Fire" Line now.
The rest of your question is a bit too stupid and dumb, knowing what Kashmir is going through and how much the Kashmiris are going to buy your idea.
You want me to talk economic and development when innocent Kashmiris are being murdered and held and killed and raped?
You actually expect me to go silent and let your terror scum go free in their land?
You are either too innocent or too stupid to actually think your regime of terror is actually going to force Kashmirs into submission and they are going to be fine with that.
Your nation has a history of being subjugated and being happy with it but we are not. And time will tell you where the border is

 

[Novice09]

View attachment 574704


View attachment 574705

Outcome... survival of the strongest... boundaries keep changing... who knows 10/50/100/200/500 years down the line... we don't have India and Pakistan on MAP...

 

[Chanakyaa]

1.1 What do you know about Article 370 ?
Everything there is to know but i lack the time to write it down. But in short it gave a special status to the state as agreed between the leaders of both sides back then.

1.2 Do you know that Pakistan too has initiated steps to Convert its part of Kashmir into fifth Province ?
Do you see anyone pelting stones or blowing shit up in Azad Kashmir? Do you ever hear of any gatherings demanding freedom?
Do you ever wonder why?

Article 370 was an agreement between your state and the state of jammu and kashmir. The supposed representatives of Kashmir agreed to affiliated with your state while they kept their autonomy.
There is no such deal or agreement between Azad Kashmir and Pakistan and Gilgit Baltistant is already a province of Pakistan if you didn't know.
Did we have to lock it down? Did we have to impose curfews? Did we have to harrass, rape, and kill the local population to subjugate them?
And you still act ignorant on the issue?

2. Why do you care for Kashmir ?

A. Because we are with the "People" of Kashmir and Their Rights
B. Because Kashmir is a Muslim Majority and we Care for Islam and Muslims

3. If You chose 2.A :

If you are concerned with the Rights of Kashmiris, Why is the Situation somewhat similar to Indian Kashmir ?

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019...inking-pro-freedom-space-190304091423290.html

"The government of Pakistan-administered Kashmir, known locally as Azad Jammu and Kashmir (AJK), denied that it was restricting space for pro-freedom parties, while electoral analysts said those parties have historically had marginal support in the territory."

Sums it up.

Why do we need to curb anything when it hardly even exists?

Pakistani Administered Kashmir is fully open for visitors and journalists. Why don't you go and check videos of foreign visitors and gauge for yourself instead of trying to adopt an agenda from your media?

3. If You chose 2.B :

If you really care about a Muslim Majority, And you care about Palestine as well, why Not Uigher Muslims ?

Already do and have already raised my voice for it though the situation is not clear to anyone.
Why my government doesn't and how they are dealing with China on the situation is a different thing.
Why are you so concerned about Uighurs when your own country is rapind and killing Kashmiris? Isn't that the biggest bullshit there can be that you are more interested in people not looking at when you are doing your evil and if you are caught you want to tell me some one else is also doing it? Ever heard of a cunning mind? Might wanna look into the mirror some day.

There is no comparison because Kashmir situation is, has always been pretty apparent and indian terrorist forces are a menace that needs to be removed from there.

If Uighur situation is true then they also need to be freed and I hope things will move in that direction sooner or later because the Oppressor is given freedom only so they can multiply their eveil doings. Teh punishment delivered upon them afterwards is hardest and we have seen many oppressors and their accomplices go down like rats and suffer in history.
So will india and so will China if they are oppressors.

3. C. If you choose 3.C , Then dont you think India has a better claim as the "Instrument of accession" is with India ?

Have you read the instrument of succession?
Care to narrate it here?

Let me educate you a bit. Care to read it thoroughly and see what it says? is india not in violation of this? Then what ground do you stand on to ask me what claim india has?

And india is supposedly a democrazy. Who gets to decide the fate of a people in a democrazy? A Maharaja fleeing his own population or the population of an area whose loyalties and demands are clear and that is exactly why you have a curfew there.

4. Many in the forum are claiming that despite Russia, US and France taking a stand against Pakk+China , Its a victory coz, Kashmir issue was "Internationalised" .. Your Thoughts ?

Dont you think, that Year after year...Each Speech in UNGA has the mention of Kashmir .. was it still not Internationalized ? Kargil happened in 1999 the reason was Kahsmir.. Still it was not Internationalized ?

I am not those people so I care not what they say. They are stupid, they jump up and down on every thing.

5. Article 370, was a line in Indian Constitution SINCE 1950. The Line was DELETED as per the Laws Given in Article 370 ITSELF.

How are you stupid enough to not see an issue being a dispute, accepted as a dispute. Your own leaders having gone to UN and promised a plebiscite, and still carrying the audacity to call it an internal dispute?
Why don't you as an indian citizen try going to Kashmir and live there for a week amongst Kashmiris with an indian flag? I am pretty sure they will educate you on this being an internal dispute.

6. After the UNSC meeting :

- India stays in Kashmir, the way it wants
- Pakstani cannot start a war due to Financial condition

Do you actually think Pakistan cannot start a war because of finances? And do you actually believe wars are started and won with finances.
Wait for a bit, and you my friend will learn on what Pakistan can and cannot start and how a war is fought.

7. LOC is the Border Now, Pakistan keeps its part of AJK, India now keeps Its part of Kashmir.

LOC is "Cease Fire" Line now.
The rest of your question is a bit too stupid and dumb, knowing what Kashmir is going through and how much the Kashmiris are going to buy your idea.
You want me to talk economic and development when innocent Kashmiris are being murdered and held and killed and raped?
You actually expect me to go silent and let your terror scum go free in their land.
You are either too innocent or too stupid to actually think your regime of terror is actually going to force Kashmirs into submission and they are going to be fine with that.
Your nation has a history of being subjugated and being happy with it but we are not. And time will tell you where the border is

1. Article 370 gives the right for every province or state of India the right to have its own constitution, autonomy over its own affairs, and a significant degree of independence. At the time of independence, most of India decided to defer to the Indian constitution and submit to federal rule. AJK decided they wanted to stay independent and thus became autonomous. Their right to autonomy has been steadily eroded, and with the revocation of 370, it has been taken away completely. Not only that, India refuses to grant it even the status of a province a la Maharashtra. That is shameful.

2. GB has semi-provincial status pending the resolution of the Kashmir issue, and has autonomy like AJK did until the revocation of 370. Also, you're citing a two year old article that preceded a change in governments, and the prior government didn't actually make GB a province. I think IK has bigger issues on his plate than statehood for GB.

3. I'm not a Muslim, unlike many on this board, but that doesn't stop me for caring for Pakistan. Heads up-two wrongs don't make a right. Of course Pakistan should protest the Uigher issue with China, IK is in the best position to advocate for their cause. Do keep in mind though, that India oppressing minorities is wrong as well. If you are a supporter of Indian democracy, you should support fairness and equality for Kashmiris just like you favor it for every other group in India. That can't be done when India insists on marching hundreds of thousands of troops into the region and shutting down the area whenever they think it necessary.

4. The Indian economy is struggling, Modi is looking more like a dictator every single day...you tell me. All these countries you claim have supported India are doing so because India has money. What happens if the Indian economy goes in the gutter? You lose the ear of a lot of important people. The issue has been internationalised, and now if there's a war then IK can say he tried everything to resolve it peacefully. I despise war, but as is said in the Bible, those who live by the sword will die by it.

5. The issue stopped being an internal matter when this became an international issue, that India even acknowledges should be negotiated bilaterally. Not unilaterally. Bilaterally. Pakistan has done its part in helping keep Azad Kashmir autonomous for the most part. India is acting in bad faith by insisting this is somehow an internal issue. You might say that 370 applies to every state in the Union of India, as I mentioned earlier, but last I checked India only even gained any access to Kashmir through the acts of a ruler who had lost his throne and was on the run, and this went to the international stage for a resolution, a resolution that has not come. So no, it's not an internal manner. Besides, Pakistan is not India. Since when does Pakistan have to recognize the internal matters of India? India could write in its constitution that men in Punjab must start their day by dressing in a Japanese kimono and singing songs from Bollywood, and as Pakistan is an independent nation, no one in Lahore is subject to that order.

6. That's up to Pakistan. The historical narrative on war essentially favors a stalemate despite what India might claim. I take the opinion that IK was taking every diplomatic option to try and get this resolved, and since it hasn't, unfortunately war is on the cards, and there's no fool like Nawaz Sharif to hand back everything Pakistan won with previous blood and lives in the first place. No doubt a war would be hard, costly, and there's no guarantee Pakistan would win it-but that's Pakistan's choice.

7. If you consider "administering" leaving hundreds of thousands of troops in place, Amit Shah insisting that they will find a way to make Kashmiris a minority in their own homeland, etc.-then sure, great work! Except oppression is wrong no matter who's doing the oppressing. Shah is a man who has taken justice into his own hands in the past, rather than letting the authorities handle things. I have long appreciated India's ability to make a place for everyone, yet now I see India making India a country-for Hindus.

To finish, the day India wants to be a great country, they will care for everyone in their country, not just the majority. That's the weakness of democracy-mob rule.

Thank You Gentlemen.
I really appreciate your efforts.

 

[SMC]

@XiNiX correct me if I am wrong, but didn't India promise autonomy to Kashmir at the time of partition if it joined India?

IMO, the current LoC needs to be made an international border and get this thing over with finally. Nationalists will of course will be disappointed on either side, but it's for the best of both countries. Keyboard Warriors from both sides could claim victory depending on how one looks at the situation.

There are other regions like Balochistan and Kurdistan that are divided into multiple countries, so not sure why Kashmir couldn't be.

 

[Chanakyaa]

@XiNiX correct me if I am wrong, but didn't India promise autonomy to Kashmir at the time of partition if it joined India?

Well, Honestly the big picture 'Legally' tells me this :

1. A domain of "autonomy" MUST exist for kashmir ( hence article 370 / 35A )
2. Since, kashmir chose to ascede with India, They were "preferring" India over pakistan

Now, If you can accuse India, you can only morally accuse of what you rightly said : Autonomy. But the problem is.. The very law which gives them Autonomy, states >

1. Its TEMPORARY
2. It can be MODIFIED
3. It can be REMOVED as and when desired

Now, As far as Pakistan is concerned :

1. The day they attacked in 1965 , it was clear "All is fair in Love and War" . You chose to go with war why didnt you wait ?Why did Pakistan create a PERMANENT Dent, that today or tomorrow pakistan can "snatch" kashmir.

2. Kargil > Same Story.

3. GB > In 2017 , a similar move was made to annex GB. If something that is deemed fit for the benifit of the nation is prudent to execute why is India wrong in doing the same ?

Lets face it : Afganistan HATES Pakistan. Yet, by the Help of Taliban pakistan wants to stay as a master or Afaganisatn.. Why teach moral lessons to India when you dont follow the same in Afganistan or Speak for Muslims in China ?

Sir, with all due respect, Either its This way or that way. Not Both.

 

[SingHee]

Most Indians behave in this manner, and do so in every matter. We can give them a chance to prove their good intentions or intelligence, then they should not be allowed to sow the seeds of discontent.

We have the legal matters under control, we have the moral matters under control and now we simply need to take the last step.

Please do not allow such people to trivialise the suffering of our nation, and in particular that of the Kashmiri people.