6th International Defence Fair Partner 2013

[vostok]

Serbian brothers, how did it happen? 30 years ago we and you had big, thriving, mighty states. We lived in peace and wealthy... Where all those things gone?

 

[CheefCoach]

Well if you want to know details about old M 84 and M 84A the best place for asking is paluba.info (???.paluba.info/smf/index.php/topic,1473.2205.html). I don't have enough posts to put links, but you can handle that. There you can find engineers, mentioned here, who actually participated in building tank at first place. Proka and me are just recycling Intel gated from them.
Version M 84AS is YI (that is Yugoimport) modernization of old tank. Because we don't produce some/most of the components they are buying them from all over the World, who ever give the best price for quality. I guess engines are from Pale (RS,Bosnia), and i don't know who is building rest of power pack. FCS is some combination of France and Russian parts. Serbia have 212 active tanks M 84 and maybe 20ish more in reserve, so we will modernize them some day. That will cost around 200 M $. It is not enough to justify research & development, so we will just buy what we need. YI can do same for any other M 84 or T 72, for about 1 M$ per tank. Croatia also do modernization of M 84 called Degman, and they use Fotona FCS, at least that was their plan. I guess Fotona was tired waiting for them to start doing modernization.
We are more concentrated on wheel based weapons systems, on anti-tank and artillery missiles, artillery shells, UAV and training aircrafts.

 

[CheefCoach]

Serbian brothers, how did it happen? 30 years ago we and you had big, thriving, mighty states. We lived in peace and wealthy... Where all those things gone?

Americans induced economical crisis (we helped that too) and than CIA persuade politician to drag people into civil war. And idiots listen to them.
Dunno, I was born at end of 1987.

 

[Audio]

Americans induced economical crisis (we helped that too) and than CIA persuade politician to drag people into civil war. And idiots listen to them.
Dunno, I was born at end of 1987.

lol, no

Central planning was the culprit. And wannabe hegemony of bigger republics who couldn't pay their fair share to the federal budget.
I wouldn't know about CIA but in the end of the 80's politicians needed no convincing, especially Serbian and one in particular were very skilled in exploiting populist nationalistic tendencies brought about by the above described economic mismanagement.

 

[CheefCoach]

Well lets not hijack topic with off topics, despite fact that this is very liberal forum. In Yugoslavia it wasn't central planing. Every republic plan for it's self (and every company manage itself), so we did end up for example with hole bunch of Oil Refinery (I think 5 of them), and all states borrow money thru federal government to build them (there was new build factories that never open up). But thing in Yugoslavia is that federal government don't have any federal taxes, so states actually pay part of their taxes for federal budget. Than some of them (mostly Slovenia ad Croatia) refuse to pay to FG, and than FG decide to print money instead. Addition to that IMF told FG that it is over debt so it can't borrow money any more (and debt was around 20%), so Yugoslavia can't import anything (all expert goes for servicing debt).
In that situation it wasn't hard to CIA find nationalistic and nazistic politician to bring down socialism. Not to mansion nationalism and ethnic intolerance that some people present.
Or to put simply, when there is no money, there is no love between people!
And I was born after all that so I am not expert.

 

[Audio]

And I was born after all that so I am not expert.

You should remember this next time before you write such an in-depth post absolving Serbs of all guilt. It was hilarious, but at the same time depressing to read in 2013.
FYI, Slovenia with 1/13th of populace made 1/3rd of all export and 1/5th of GDP of the entire country. And you wonder why we refused to pay up.
And yes, central planning, companies got lax, there was no competition, everyone was having a good time on the federal (borrowed, yes) money. Since everything they made in excess of needs became immediately government property and companies didn't really own their profit there was no need for streamlining operations, cost cutting and increasing of profits, diminishing their competitiveness.
In this kind of atmosphere small and medium sized enterprises (backbone of every major economy) couldn't flourish. And the economy was in a slow death spiral, by the end of 80's.

 

[CheefCoach]

We really should stop discuss this thing on this topic. I don't absolve anybody of guilt, everybody was equally guilty. Slovenians and Croatians enter Yugoslavia on free will. We all together make all decision. Every state have equal power in federal government, and everything was done with national key. Economy was socialistic, and it purpose was to make everyone employed. Slovenians and Croatians now want to shift all blame to Serbs, despite that they have more power than Serbians. Tito was half Croat and half Slovenian, Kardelj was Slovenian...
And this is topic about Partner 2013, if you want to talk about economy and Yugoslavia, we should find another place, ok.

 

[Audio]

And this is topic about Partner 2013

Yes, yes, i apologize.

 

[CheefCoach]

!!!.mycity-military.com/Oklopna-tehnika/Srpsko-visenamensko-oklopno-vozilo-Lazar_226.html
You can find picture and tech info for M91E RWS which is designed for BVP 80 Vidra vehicle. On Lazar 2 is modified M91E, for now. Gun is now lighter and in NATO caliber (30x173 mm).
Because technical data is on Serbian I will just translate important parts:
-Unstabilized version with M 86 30 mm gun (now changed with new one) and 200 shells, MG 7,62 (2000 rounds), 4 Malyutka AT missiles and 4 smoke screen canister.
-Stabilized version which only have 2 Malyutka missiles (rest is a same).
weight 1782 kg
It can shoot 360 degrees horizontally and from -7 to 65 degrees in vertically. It zoom 5.3 times for land targets and 1.1 for airborne targets.
That turret is old version so don't take things literately. FCS is improved. We have club in our army called Malyutka in 21. century , but it is improved. Foreign buyers will probably getting another AT missiles or none.

 

[proka89]

Bumbar antitank missile to finish acceptance tests in 2013

Miroslav Gyürösi, Bratislava - IHS Jane's Missiles & Rockets

Serbia's indigenously developed PORS (Protivoklopni Raketni Sistem) Bumbar short-range antitank missile system is expected to complete its service-acceptance tests by the end of 2013.

Working under a low-rate initial production (LRIP) contract, the Krusik Holding Corporation from Valjevo built an initial batch of systems in 2012-13. This batch has now been completed and, according to Serbian internet sources, 50 missiles have been delivered.

The basic system delivered during this LRIP phase consists of a 136 mm POVR (Protivoklopna Vodjena Raketa) missile in a transporting-launching container, the UVL (Uredzay za Vodzenye i Lansiranye) firing post, and a tripod or bipod mount.

The PORS Bumbar system has suffered a problem faced by many other systems created in the former Yugoslavia or former Soviet Union in recent decades. When initially designed 10-20 years ago, these projects used the most modern components available at the time. However, the delays created by persistent underfinancing due to the turbulent economic and political climate often resulted in some of the subsystems (mostly electronic and optronic) becoming obsolete, even before serial production could begin.

The largest window on the new optical unit developed for the production version of the Bumbar firing post is for the thermal camera. The three horizontal windows are for the daytime television camera (left), the narrow field-of-view guidance camera (centre), and the wide field-of-view guidance camera (right). The two windows to the right of the thermal camera are for the laser rangefinder. (Miroslav Gyürösi)

In the case of the PORS Bumbar system, designers have opted to replace the original UVL, which weighs 4.5 kg, by a new version that offers improved capabilities and lighter weight, before committing the system to full-scale production. The optical head for the revised design was shown for the first time by the VTI Military-Technical Institute during the Partner 2013 defence exhibition in Belgrade.

The missile is 931.7 mm long, 136 mm in diameter, and weighs 12.2 kg. The composite-based transporting-launching tube is 1,164 mm long and weighs 1.5 kg.

An ejection rocket motor containing 100 g of smokeless double-base propellant enables soft launching at an initial velocity of 18 m/sec, allowing the weapon to be shoulder-fired and used from within confined spaces.

The sustainer rocket motor contains 2 kg of smokeless double-base propellant and accelerates the missile to a maximum velocity of 250 m/sec.

The precursor component of the tandem-shaped charge warhead is 25 mm in diameter, weighs 200 g, and contains 30 g of explosive filling. The main warhead is 136 mm in diameter, weighs 3.6 kg, and contains 2.6 kg of explosive filling.

 

[proka89]

Serbia's LRSVM Morava MRL begins final tests

Miroslav Gyürösi, Bratislava - IHS Jane's Missiles & Rockets

Development of Serbia's new LRSVM (Lanser Raketni Vishecevni Samokhodni Modularni) Morava modular multiple rocket launcher (MRL) is almost complete. Initial trials of the system vehicles started at the Jastrepac proving ground on 22 July, with the first 10 days earmarked mostly for tests of the mechanical, driving, and manoeuvring characteristics.

The first phase of these trials is due to end in August. Further trials are likely to follow and be completed by the end of the year, allowing serial production to begin in 2015.

During the recent Partner 2013 defence exhibition in Belgrade, the VTI (Voyno-Tehnicski Institut) Military-Technical Institute and its partners in the programme showed the latest version of the system's launch vehicle, and a prototype of the system's logistical vehicle. Both are based on the Serbian-made FAP 1118 BS/AV 4x4 truck chassis. An LRSVM Morava battery will consist of four self-propelled launchers and four logistical vehicles.

The self-propelled launcher is produced by FAP (chassis), IMK 14.oktobar (vehicle superstructure), VTI (unspecified automatic subsystems), and EI-Opec (the electronic launching subsystem). The logistical vehicle is produced by FAP (chassis), IMK 14.oktobar (crane) and Prva Petoletka Namenska (pump and hydraulic components). The launching pods are produced by INhrom.

VTI did not give details of the subsystems for which it is responsible, but these are probably electro-mechanical devices used to stabilise the vehicle and aim the rockets.

The self-propelled launcher has a modular design. It features an integrated command-and-control system but can conduct autonomous pre-programmed fire missions. The vehicle's primary navigation system is inertial, with a GPS satellite navigation receiver as the secondary navaid.

According to the VTI Military-Technical Institute, the fire-preparation time is 45 seconds, and the vehicle cam move off 30 seconds after firing its last rocket.

The system can use four different types of rocket:

- The 128 mm Plamen-A, with a range of 8.6 km

- The 128 mm Plamen-D, with a range of 12.6 km

- The 128 mm Oganj, with a range of 22.5 km

- The 122 mm Grad, with a range up to 35 km.

All types of rocket are fired from the appropriate pattern of multitube launch pod, and the mounting frame on the launch vehicle can carry two pods for the same calibre of rocket. The Plamen pod has 16 launch tubes, while the Oganj and Grad pods have 12 tubes.

The launcher and logistic vehicles shown at the exhibition featured redesigned launch pods for all rocket types. These had new patterns of launch tubes, and a box-like cover with a revised shape.

The development of suitable tubes was undertaken by the KOL-15N Inzenjering in Belgrade, while INhrom was responsible for serial production.

The first functional model of the new launcher tubes was made from ordinary steel. A block of four tubes was tested in November 2009 using Plamen-S rockets. These were followed in 2010 by long tubes for 128 mm Oganj rockets, and tubes for 122 mm Grad rockets. Both were made from standard steel. Wall thicknesses were 0.6 mm for the Oganj and Grad rockets, and 0.5 mm for the Plamen rockets.

Unfortunately, these steel tubes experienced a corrosion problem, so by the end of 2011 the material had been changed to stainless steel.

In January 2012, INhrom began production of tubes made from 0.6 mm thick stainless steel. Static tests of these began in March 2012 and led to the first firing trials in June of the same year.

The logistic vehicle for the LRSVM Morava MRL is equipped with a crane used to move rocket pods to and from the launch vehicle.

Firing trials of complete launcher containers incorporating the new stainless steel tubes were conducted in January 2013. They involved the firing of eight 122 mm Grad rockets and five 128 mm Plamen rockets.

(KOL-15 N Inzenjering and INhrom have also collaborated to develop and produce launching tubes for 107 mm calibre rockets. These are made from 0.8 mm thick duraluminium, and weigh only 1.6 kg. The equivalent steel tube weighs 3.4 kg).

The logistic vehicle has a crew of two. It is used to transport rocket pods to the firing position, where it uses its built-in crane to reload the self-propelled launcher. It can carry four pods for Plamen rockets or two pods for Oganj or Grad rockets. The logistic vehicle weighs 1,200 kg when fully loaded, and can tow a trailer with a total weight of up to 5,000 kg.

 

[proka89]

Serbia to resume Strela-2M production for the air-to-surface role

Miroslav Gyürösi, Bratislava - IHS Jane's Missiles & Rockets

At the recent Partner 2013 defence exhibition in Belgrade, Serbia displayed the 9M32M missile of the Strela-2M (SA-7 'Grail'). This veteran surface-to-air missile is expected to see service as a semi-active laser guided precision strike weapon.

Serbian engineers are working to adapt the Soviet-era 9K32M Strela-2M (SA-7 'Grail') surface-to-air missile for the air-to-surface role, and are planning to resume production of the weapon under the terms of an existing licence from the former Soviet Union.

Serbian rocket engine development and production company EDePro is completing the development and testing of a new composite rocket motor for the system's 9M32M missile. This will match the characteristics of the original motor.

It is not clear whether the missile is being returned to production as a man-portable air-defence system (MANPADS), perhaps with a new passive seeker, or whether all new production will be dedicated to the air-to-surface role. The latter will involve replacing the weapon's existing passive infrared homing head with a new semi-active laser (SAL) seeker.

Serbia is already developing the Pegaz-011 medium-range unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) for the intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance roles, but is now studying the potential strike capability of this 120 kg empty weight UAV. A laser rangefinder and laser target designator for UAV applications are under development.

EDePro develops new rocket propellant for SA-3 missile

Miroslav Gyürösi, Bratislava - IHS Jane's Missiles & Rockets

The Serbian rocket engine company EDePro has developed a new propellant filling for the main rocket motor of the 5V27 family of surface-to-air missiles used by the Soviet-era S-125M Neva-M (SA-3 'Goa') missile system.

The missile is fitted with a tandem-mounted booster, and the new composite grain (propellant charge) - designated 5B29 EX - is intended to replace the original PEKA-18D propellant used in the missile's 5B29 sustainer motor.

Work on this motor refurbishment scheme started in 2012, and more than five motors filled with the new propellant were tested on EDePro's static test stand in late March 2013. The original Soviet-era 5B29 motor had a burn time of 19-21 seconds, while the new 5B29 EX motor burns for 18-20 seconds.

Following these successful test firings, which verified the performance of the refilled motor, the company is offering the new propellant to potential customers.

A model of the new 5B29 EX solid-propellant charge for the sustainer motor of the 5V27 missile used by the Soviet-era S-125M Neva-M (SA-3 'Goa') missile system was displayed at the recent Partner 2013 defence exhibition in Belgrade.

 

[BDforever]

@proka89 bro do you have any problem with Belarus ? if not then you should join with us in defence project, Bangladesh and Belarus will start joint defence projects within 1-2 years,

“These areas are the production and modernisation of military equipment and control, communication and electromagnetic warfare systems. The document also provides for the joint work to create new radio-electronic military equipment and weapons and other special-purpose equipment as well as technologies to design and produce such products” said the Belarusian media report.

Furthermore, the document also stipulates the exchange of specialists to carry out defensive R&D work, develop and produce military equipment and also transfer technologies. The agreement includes the provisions that guarantee the safety of information that will be obtained in the course of such cooperation. Official and commercial secrets will be protected, too.

Bangladesh-Belarus defence industry cooperation gains momentum - Military Forces of Asia

 

[proka89]

It's not on me to decide , but no we dont have any kind of problems with the Belarus.

B92 - News - "Plenty of room for better economic cooperation"

Belarus is interested in Smederevo steelworks | Vesti | Tanjug

Belarus, Serbia to cooperate in geology - Society / News / Belarus News | Belarusian news | Belarus today | news in Belarus | Minsk news | BELTA - Belarus News | Belarusian news | Belarus today | news in Belarus | Minsk news | BELTA

http://www.vtg.mod.gov.rs/professor...s-visited-the-military-technical-courier.html

 

[CheefCoach]

Belarus have problems with EU, and Serbia plan is to join EU, but something will eventually work out. Morava missile launcher can also shot some of EDoPro made missiles like R-107 (107mm) and R 122 mm G-2000/G-M (upgraded Grad missiles).