50 JF-17 from china delivery started

[farhan_9909]

well huge CNC's were installed in 2011 in PAC to manufacture the whole Air frame.

it is just the part of the 50 JFT to be delivered on urgent basis by china


this will really speed up the delivery
and a goal of 150 JFT by 2015 would be completed
(50 block I)
(50 from china on urgent basis)
(50 parallel manufacturing at PAC as well)

 

[Viper0011.]

F-16 is a ground attack fighter. And our F-16 are currently being upgraded to Block 60 specifications. They can service the Pakistani Air Force till 2030.

JF-17, will be the spine of our Air Force. Technically, its still inferior to F-16, but by 2020, we should be on JF-17 Block 3, which should be superior to the F-16.

J-10, is China's Air Superiority Fighter. This Fighter is needed to deal with India's Rafale Fighters that India is getting from France.

J-11, I meant the J-11BH. Which is China's Naval Version of this fighter. This will form our new Naval Aviation Wing to deal with India's aggressive Navy.

The final verdict is that India will have a much larger fleet from a quantitative and qualitative standpoint. However, with the induction of AWACS by Pakistan in numbers, a lot of larger radar advantage is gone. Plus the proximity of the border and airbases. It's a moot point now.
Pakistan's acquisitions of JFT in numbers, specifically block II, FC-20, J11 and hopefully a single engine stealth jet will give it enough teeth to deny airspace control and also inflict damages on inbound forces. So from a defensive doctrine's standpoint, it makes sense.

Personally, if I was involved with the JFT program at THIS time, I would change the direction on it. Block II would serve as a plane with heavy use of stealthy features borrowed from J 20. The Block III would be stealth optimized, almost a different airframe serving as a single engine stealth jet. That should form the basis of Pakistan's low - medium. Then use J-11 and potentially some J 20's for higher end. I know it may not make financial sense but given the size of IAF, specially the twin engine planes, PAF will need some superiority aircraft at some point. These also work as a force multiplier so you can target multiple incoming formations.

 

[S_O_C_O_M]

The final verdict is that India will have a much larger fleet from a quantitative and qualitative standpoint.

does this verdict also include the quality of the pilots skill?

 

[itaskol]

I am confused.

Why are we getting 50 JF-17?

We can make these ourselves.

50 jf-17 is something like AID.

Why doesnt China give us 50 J-10?

we dont even have enough J10 for ourself.
and pls dont use the word "give".

 

[Manticore]

The jf-17 is a fourth generation frame -- what we can do is rcs reduction [2 vertical stabilizers at an angle other 90 would be a start] -- stealth optimization can be done on a fighter at the beginning when in designing phase , so for that case an entirely new fighter would be needed , possibly the the single engined 5th gen chinese concept would do

What is needed is a high altitude fighter as most of pak 4th gen fighters are better at low altitudes --

Now it would be a trade off as to which fighter to go for i.e jft block3 with very good avionics , [with no improved internal wt carrying capacity for fuel/weapons , no better engine ,no increase in dimensions like the F-2] on one side and j10/j15 on the other side.

Would the cost effectiveness be present in jft block3? would we able to get j10s in the same cost?If yes, then paf should ditch the costly improvements on jft and get a better fighter with inherent better radar , range and payload capacity & somewhat different aerodynamics than the present paf fleet thus giving paf versatality

 

[Nishan_101]

An unralated and irrelevant post. Do you honestly think that PAF decision makers including Rashid Lateef were fools to have gone for Bl52s and do you think that the Americans were idiotic enough to have allowed you to buy planes from a third source without intervening. And what would you have done with all the junk if the USA had not given you the MLU kits. Please think and research a bit before you write. It is really friendly Advice from someone who has read what you have been writing.
Araz

Thanks a lot. I also wanted to say that any that we may get are firstly being allowed by its manufacturer like in the case of F-16s USA. I want to say that we should have negotiated the Venuezvella with USA over the purchase of 24 F-16s so that the USA will allow us to have MLU on them in Turkey. Although 18 Block-52s doesn't seem too good. I support 55 F-16s Block-52 in 2003 with the price tag of $45 million per piece and no more LGB, JDAMs instead look towards few Maveriks, Sensor fused weapons, HAARM, few Harpoons and AMRAAMs along with EW pods for every F-16s.

Sorry, Off the topic and you are right sir. Keep improving me. JAZAKALLAH.

well huge CNC's were installed in 2011 in PAC to manufacture the whole Air frame.

it is just the part of the 50 JFT to be delivered on urgent basis by china


this will really speed up the delivery
and a goal of 150 JFT by 2015 would be completed
(50 block I)
(50 from china on urgent basis)
(50 parallel manufacturing at PAC as well)

We have many local facilities from which we can make many parts of JF-17, its the GoP as well some problem within the PAC that we were not manufacturing it well. Like we have facilities at PAC, PEC(Precison Engineering Complex), PMTF and other facilities that can help us in the airframe parts supply as well private sector too which is always willing to support us in this regards.

 

[Mercenary]

The final verdict is that India will have a much larger fleet from a quantitative and qualitative standpoint. However, with the induction of AWACS by Pakistan in numbers, a lot of larger radar advantage is gone. Plus the proximity of the border and airbases. It's a moot point now.
Pakistan's acquisitions of JFT in numbers, specifically block II, FC-20, J11 and hopefully a single engine stealth jet will give it enough teeth to deny airspace control and also inflict damages on inbound forces. So from a defensive doctrine's standpoint, it makes sense.

Personally, if I was involved with the JFT program at THIS time, I would change the direction on it. Block II would serve as a plane with heavy use of stealthy features borrowed from J 20. The Block III would be stealth optimized, almost a different airframe serving as a single engine stealth jet. That should form the basis of Pakistan's low - medium. Then use J-11 and potentially some J 20's for higher end. I know it may not make financial sense but given the size of IAF, specially the twin engine planes, PAF will need some superiority aircraft at some point. These also work as a force multiplier so you can target multiple incoming formations.

Given the current disparity between Pakistan and India, Pakistan will never launch an offensive war into India like they did in 1965 and 1971.

Pakistan's entire doctrine now needs to shift to a defensive war, and with that, we need to invest heavily in Anti-Aircraft Defenses like High altitude missile batteries, radars, long range missiles, etc.

 

[araz]

araz sahab, a perfect example of integrating western and non western technologies was demontrated by Greece where they had to integrate russian and american sams in their air defence systems and made Russian And American Sams work together with each other and according to them it was a one hell of a job and they took pains to make western and non western platforms work together

Recently there was an excerpt from Yaeger where he said that he helped PAF integrate the side winders on the F6s. So although difficult it cna be done provided the parties concerned do not have any objections and help out .
Araz

 

[araz]

Thanks a lot. I also wanted to say that any that we may get are firstly being allowed by its manufacturer like in the case of F-16s USA. I want to say that we should have negotiated the Venuezvella with USA over the purchase of 24 F-16s so that the USA will allow us to have MLU on them in Turkey. Although 18 Block-52s doesn't seem too good. I support 55 F-16s Block-52 in 2003 with the price tag of $45 million per piece and no more LGB, JDAMs instead look towards few Maveriks, Sensor fused weapons, HAARM, few Harpoons and AMRAAMs along with EW pods for every F-16s.

Sorry, Off the topic and you are right sir. Keep improving me. JAZAKALLAH.



We have many local facilities from which we can make many parts of JF-17, its the GoP as well some problem within the PAC that we were not manufacturing it well. Like we have facilities at PAC, PEC(Precison Engineering Complex), PMTF and other facilities that can help us in the airframe parts supply as well private sector too which is always willing to support us in this regards.

Thank you.I apologize for being a bit angry . The problem is that no one will allow you to buy just old planes unless you buy new ones. With regards to Bl 52s the trust deficit and Pakistans piss poor economic situation has everything to do with not having additional Bl52s. There was talk of additional 14 Bl52s but that also seems to have died down. I think now that we have the J10s coming our way and PAF in final phases of the deal it seems that we may have given up on f16s although Older models would be a cheap interim solution. They would remain at the mercy of US to provide them. there has been talk of getting some Bl40/42s and MLUing them but at the moment it is all up and about in the air. It is safe to assume that F16s are notcoming and look forward to JFT and J10s as our future.
Another point for you specifically is try and avoid posting acquisitions wish list which are unrealistic. It basically devoids your posts of any credibility. i hope you will take this int oaccount when you post next.
Regards
Araz

 

[baajey]

congrats to pak..... i love the design of jf 17....it looks awesome

 

[Introvert]

How many JF-17 does PAF currently have in its inventory?

 

[Machoman]

I think they have close to 30 by now.

 

[Edevelop]

I dont understand....

Didn't we have a plan to have: 50 (Block 1) and 100 (Block 2) ???

Lets say even if we have 30 Block 1s currently, then the 50 extra would mean change in plans. Why are we not procedding to buy Block 2s instead??

 

[itaskol]

this topic are discussed also in chinese forum.
we have some questions to these 50 JF17, hope someone can give reliable answers.
there is no official source in china about these 50 JF17s.

1. does PAK have two different type of Il-78? very confused
why a airrefuelling aircraft can also be used to transport JF 17 parts.

2. are these 50 JFT based on loan or AID? really free gift?
is there any reliable source to prove?
because in chinese media says only that is "emegency support".

If is "free gift" , what did pakistan promised to china for return? WOT?
nothing is really "free", even free AID is not really "free"/

3. why the 50 jft are still block1?

4. If it is AID or free loan. why PAK did not ask for 20 J10 instead of 50 JFT?

 

[itaskol]

overall sir jee our production line is going on and chines was free so why not from china ?

what did you mean "Free" exactly?
free time: not really, CAC is a very busy factory

free of charge: It could be. but it depends on what had Pakistan promised to china as return/
we have not seen any announcement form pakistan.
from chinese median we only see it is " emegency support". It does not mean " free"

.