5% budget cut stalls Defence plans

[Agent_47]

The Rs.1.93-lakh-crore budget included modernisation, acquisition in the three forces

Battling the ongoing economic slowdown, the Centre has effected a five per cent cut in the Rs.1.93-lakh-crore defence budget for this financial year.

The cut is estimated to be around Rs.10,000 crore, Defence Ministry sources said.

It is likely to put the brakes on ambitious plans of modernisation within the Army, the Navy and the Air Force and push, to the next fiscal, several key acquisition plans. These plans include the acquisition of 126 Rafale fighter aircraft for the Air Force from French firm Dassault Aviation. The already-delayed Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) project, worth $20 billion, will now be pushed beyond April 2013. Acquisitions of helicopters and missiles could also be delayed further, the sources said.

Under the Rs.1.93-lakh-crore budget, Rs.1,13,829 crore is for revenue expenditure, including salaries and pensions, and Rs.79,579 for modernisation of the armed forces.

Defence Minister A.K. Antony recently indicated that the Ministry would struggle to get the allocated amount during the current fiscal. In view of the cut, the Ministry has asked the armed forces to focus on prioritising their procurements. The sources said the Ministry’s desire to encourage research and development in high-end technology would take even longer to fructify. The Ministry is also keen to encourage competition among defence public sector units.

The Hindu : News / National : 5% budget cut stalls Defence plans

 

[perplexed]

WTF dude .. this 10,000 cr cut was from the extra cash which was asked by the armed forces .. Not from the defence budget

 

[Koovie]

A year on, deal with Dasault not in sight

New Delhi, January 5
Contrary to expectations of an early push towards finalising the contract for the 126 Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) for the Indian Air Force, the deal will not be signed before the current financial year comes to an end in March this year.

The IAF is keen that the negotiations are concluded and the way is paved to finalise the multi-billion dollar deal with the French manufacturer Dasault Aviation for its Rafale ominrole fighter plane.

Sources in the Ministry of Defence told The Tribune that there was no possibility that the contract can be signed in the current financial year. While the negotiations started after Dassault was declared the lowest bidder in January 2012, indications are that the discussions between the Contract Negotiation Committee and the French company is far from over.

Dassault Aviation Chief Executive Officer Charles Edelstenne, scheduled to demit office next week, told a French Parliamentary panel last month that while there was “relative optimism” over the progress of talks. He acknowledged the negotiations were tough. “We are deep in talks at the moment. It’s a complicated country, the negotiations are tough, but there is a desire to wrap up on both sides,” Edelstenne told the panel.

The contract envisages that of the 126 aircraft, 18 will be in fly-away condition while the rest will be license produced by the public sector Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) that will do the final assembly. Reports indicate that among the points of discussion was a suggestion by the French manufacturer that it be allowed decide on the quantum of work to be done by the HAL and private enterprise in India, to cater to the 50 per cent offset clause in the deal.

However, last week a news agency reported that the Ministry of Defence insisted that the HAL remain the lead integrator since any deviation in the tender floated in 2007 would require it be taken back to the Defence Acquisition Council for approval.

In the meantime, the Defence Ministry received a jolt in the form of Rs 10,000 crore cut from the Rs.79,578 crore capital expenditure in the 2012-13 annual budget, putting a question mark on many acquisitions that the three services — Army, Navy and IAF — were planning. The Ministry of Finance intimated the Defence Ministry of the budget cut which comes at a time when the tri-services were seeking to accelerate modernisation programme.

Depending on the progress of negotiations and sorting out issues including re-evaluating the controversy on the process leading to the declaration of the lowest bidder, the government will be left with a narrow window to sign the deal before preparations for the 2014 General Election set-in.

The Tribune, Chandigarh, India - Main News

 

[Koovie]

This budget cut is unlikely to affect the MMRCA deal, the negotiations are far more concerning.

But this is understandable since we are talking about full ToT and a 50% offset clause.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Having a defence budget cut of 5% is not a big deal. Considering that the defence budget increases by double-digits every single year.

 

[Koovie]

Having a defence budget cut of 5% is not a big deal. Considering that the defence budget increases by double-digits every single year.

These idiots are actually cutting salaries and pensions, most likely of the ordinary soldiers

 

[illusion8]

Having a defence budget cut of 5% is not a big deal. Considering that the defence budget increases by double-digits every single year.

It's an attempt at bringing down the fiscal deficit for the financial year end.

 

[AADHAAR]

It's an attempt at bringing down the fiscal deficit for the financial year end.

Whis is a good thing, off course.

We aren't really threatened... even with the current state of defence forces.

(except, perhaps if USA changes it's mind to go against us ).

Hence, ECONOMY FIRST

5% is actually peanuts.. (in terms of the overall defence budget).

As for the fisc .. apart from this 10,000 crore, they need to find another 30,000 crore to meet the target.

Let's see if PC can pulloff disinvestments and how much telecom auctions earns. Also, tax buoyancy in Q4 could help reach the target.

Overall... not a bad decision, IMO. We already flew all the MMRCA competitiors and got to know their vital capabilities.

Also, give more time to LCA and AMCA.. atleast I will be secretly be happy if MMRCA goes. Su 30 MKIs more than suffice our current needs. And Rafale is just a technology purchase ... not a burning defence necessity.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Also, give more time to LCA and AMCA.. atleast I will be secretly be happy if MMRCA goes. Su 30 MKIs more than suffice our current needs. And Rafale is just a technology purchase ... not a burning defence necessity.

MMRCA WILL go through by March 31st bud.

 

[janon]

Also, give more time to LCA and AMCA.. atleast I will be secretly be happy if MMRCA goes. Su 30 MKIs more than suffice our current needs. And Rafale is just a technology purchase ... not a burning defence necessity.

Rafales are very much a burning necessity. 160 MKIs, set to increase to 270, is just not enough to secure thee airspace of a country the size of India, when we have the Chinese and pak air forces on either side. It is a fact that we need a bare minimum of 39 squadrons to be safe - something that the IAF has analysed and concluded. It is also a fact that we have 34 squadrons presently. It is also a fact that close to 200 jets will retire in the next five years. From 2017 onward, if the Rafales don't start coming in numbers, we will be seriously vulnerable. There is only so long that we can task our pilots to keep flying aircrafts older than themselves.

These idiots are actually cutting salaries and pensions, most likely of the ordinary soldiers

No way. Salaries are fixed by the 6th pay commission, and that is not something that GoI can suddenly decide to change. They don't have that power.

 

[AADHAAR]

Rafales are very much a burning necessity. 160 MKIs, set to increase to 270, is just not enough to secure thee airspace of a country the size of India, when we have the Chinese and pak air forces on either side. It is a fact that we need a bare minimum of 39 squadrons to be safe - something that the IAF has analysed and concluded. It is also a fact that we have 34 squadrons presently. It is also a fact that close to 200 jets will retire in the next five years. From 2017 onward, if the Rafales don't start coming in numbers, we will be seriously vulnerable. There is only so long that we can task our pilots to keep flying aircrafts older than themselves.

Do you seriously mean that PAF or PLAAF could threaten IAF ???.... and threaten with what?

both are struggling to fly a decent contemporary 4th gen aircraft ... the J-10 and JF-17 are 4th gen only in name.

PLAAF's 40-odd Su-30MKK are their only worthy aircraft to fly against Su 30 MKI (and there too the MKK is inferior to MKI). PAF has nothing to fly against MKIs.. and chances are nil they will have anything soon.

True, both of them don't have any other option .. but to stick to J-10 and JF-17 respectively. But that isn't our problem .. is it?

As for numbers.. Su 30MKIs are continued to be produced by HAL. They give us a bigger bang for the buck.

Then the question is why Rafale? --- It's just for purchasing western techonologies. And that's what we need to negotiate hard about.

 

[Koovie]

Do you seriously mean that PAF or PLAAF could threaten IAF ???.... and threaten with what?

both are struggling to fly a decent contemporary 4th gen aircraft ... the J-10 and JF-17 are 4th gen only in name.

PLAAF's 40-odd Su-30MKK are their only worthy aircraft to fly against Su 30 MKI (and there too the MKK is inferior to MKI). PAF has nothing to fly against MKIs.. and chances are nil they will have anything soon.

True, both of them don't have any other option .. but to stick to J-10 and JF-17 respectively. But that isn't our problem .. is it?

As for numbers.. Su 30MKIs are continued to be produced by HAL. They give us a bigger bang for the buck.

Then the question is why Rafale? --- It's just for purchasing western techonologies. And that's what we need to negotiate hard about.

If you are seriously suggesting to say that the PLAAF and PAF are no threat to the IAF, you need immediate help to get out of your dream world.

Whis is a good thing, off course.

We aren't really threatened... even with the current state of defence forces.

(except, perhaps if USA changes it's mind to go against us ).

Hence, ECONOMY FIRST

5% is actually peanuts.. (in terms of the overall defence budget).

As for the fisc .. apart from this 10,000 crore, they need to find another 30,000 crore to meet the target.

Let's see if PC can pulloff disinvestments and how much telecom auctions earns. Also, tax buoyancy in Q4 could help reach the target.

Overall... not a bad decision, IMO. We already flew all the MMRCA competitiors and got to know their vital capabilities.

Also, give more time to LCA and AMCA.. atleast I will be secretly be happy if MMRCA goes. Su 30 MKIs more than suffice our current needs. And Rafale is just a technology purchase ... not a burning defence necessity.

Why do people always overhype the LCA ? ? ? ?
And it will take decades to get the AMCA.

 

[janon]

Do you seriously mean that PAF or PLAAF could threaten IAF ???.... and threaten with what?

both are struggling to fly a decent contemporary 4th gen aircraft ... the J-10 and JF-17 are 4th gen only in name.

PLAAF's 40-odd Su-30MKK are their only worthy aircraft to fly against Su 30 MKI (and there too the MKK is inferior to MKI). PAF has nothing to fly against MKIs.. and chances are nil they will have anything soon.

True, both of them don't have any other option .. but to stick to J-10 and JF-17 respectively. But that isn't our problem .. is it?

As for numbers.. Su 30MKIs are continued to be produced by HAL. They give us a bigger bang for the buck.

Then the question is why Rafale? --- It's just for purchasing western techonologies. And that's what we need to negotiate hard about.

You are seriously underestimating both the PAF and PLAAF. The PLAAF has more fourth gen fighters than the ENTIRE IAF fleet. That is a fact.

Also, numbers matter. Even if one MKI can take on 5 JF-17s (say) - one MKI can still be only in one place. If three JF-17s fly toward one city and two toward another, the MKI can only protect one city, and the other will be undefended. Just because we have one fighter that is technologically superior to our enemies, doesn't mean that we don't need numbers. That is why I said, it is a fact that 39 squadrons are a must to defend our airspace completely. This analysis was done by the IAF, not by me. Numbers matter when the territory is so huge. An MKI can't be in two places at once, so even if one MKI can take on a million JF-17s, we would still need numbers.

Now think about what happens when the PLAAF decides to send in large numbers of its homegrown flanker derivatives. Yes, they may be slightly inferior to our MKIs - and they are only slightly inferior - but just take a look at the numbers they have. As I said before, they have more fourth gen, heavy, twin engine, long range multirole fighters than the IAF's total inventory. And overall, their air force has about three times as many combat aircrafts as ours.

If these rafales don't join our AF, we will be vulnerable even to the PAF - and we can forget about defending ourselves in a two front war.

 

[AADHAAR]

You are seriously underestimating both the PAF and PLAAF. The PLAAF has more fourth gen fighters than the ENTIRE IAF fleet. That is a fact.

Also, numbers matter. Even if one MKI can take on 5 JF-17s (say) - one MKI can still be only in one place. If three JF-17s fly toward one city and two toward another, the MKI can only protect one city, and the other will be undefended. Just because we have one fighter that is technologically superior to our enemies, doesn't mean that we don't need numbers. That is why I said, it is a fact that 39 squadrons are a must to defend our airspace completely. This analysis was done by the IAF, not by me. Numbers matter when the territory is so huge. An MKI can't be in two places at once, so even if one MKI can take on a million JF-17s, we would still need numbers.

How many JF-17s are there?

For there to be 5 times Su-30MKI.. PAF will need 1,350 JF-17.

Secondly, do you conceive that Su 30 MKI or Rafales are going to be flown against JF-17??

Now think about what happens when the PLAAF decides to send in large numbers of its homegrown flanker derivatives. Yes, they may be slightly inferior to our MKIs - and they are only slightly inferior - but just take a look at the numbers they have. As I said before, they have more fourth gen, heavy, twin engine, long range multirole fighters than the IAF's total inventory. And overall, their air force has about three times as many combat aircrafts as ours.

Ok, let's assume PLAAF attacks .... with what will it attack??

J-10s ??

Do we need Rafales to fly against J-10??

Or do you foresee Rafales will be used for bombing Chengdu?? -- then why won't Su 30 MKIs do the same thing.... they are much cheaper than Rafales.

Frankly, any realist will discount the possibility of PLAAF or PAF deciding not to attack us, just because we have Rafales.

They would decide not to do anything stupid (for themselves), even if we don't have Rafales.

That said, I am NOT arguing against getting Rafales. Only that the reason for purchase isn't PLAAF or PAF ... the reason is different, as I stated above.