4 Chinese Destroyer Ships available for Purchase , Decommissioned 2 Months ago

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Construction will need 10 years, it appears it is best to fill the gap when we can

 

[aziqbal]

NO NO definitely NO

 

[Akh1112]

These have Destroyer Designation , so automatically they are above frigate ships in term of fire power

More capable then our OHP as these have all their weapons intact
While we are getting new ships , it is 100% correct decision but till they arrive

However we need a interim solution for between now and when the new ships arrive

• They also can house , the anti submarine helicopters as well

A much better option then swift ships we were once negotiating not long ago
These 4 ship give us Anti Air , Anti Submarine , Anti Ship capability in one package

Just thought it was a great option to consider considering the events unfolding around us

The Anti Air & Anti Submarine , role would add more depth in our Navy's Present Need


And yes one day when Type054 arrive then our navy can make decisions how to align the ships

this makes no sense. Classifications literally mean nothing. There are frigates and corvettes that are better armed than some destroyers. Heck, the SA'AR 6 corvette is better armed than the Milgem Frigates and the 054A/P...

 

[Niko Zhang]

this makes no sense. Classifications literally mean nothing. There are frigates and corvettes that are better armed than some destroyers. Heck, the SA'AR 6 corvette is better armed than the Milgem Frigates and the 054A/P...

Indeed some equipments on SAAR6 is better than 054AP. But I don’t agree that it is totally better armed than 054AP. 054AP has better anti-ship fire, better anti-sub warfare capabilities, better endurance, better SAM missile.

 

[Niko Zhang]

[emoji41] Construction will need 10 years, it appears it is best to fill the gap when we can

These old granny are simply way tooooooooooooo outdated. They really need to go to the museum or get demolished.

 

[Understudy]

The weapons on board are superior to many of our ships

Armament:

• Note: Aramaments listed are for latest 051 modernized variant
• 16 anti-ship missiles
• 8 surface-to-air missiles + 16 spare (manual reload)
• 2 twin-barrel 130 mm dual purpose guns
• 4 Type 76A dual-37 mm anti-aircraft guns
• 2 Type 75 anti-submarine rocket systems
• 6 torpedo tubes
• Depth charges
• 38 naval mines

They have Sea to Air Missiles + Anti Aircraft guns
They have Anti Ship missiles (More quantity then our missile boats)
They have anti Submarines Depth Chargers
They got anti ship Torpedo
Plus they can also lay down mines



These are available now , vs waiting till Type054 arrives their is no delivery delay

If it is decommissioned, all weapons and military hardware would have been removed. At that point you would have to refit all those to get the ship into commission again. The refit will take time and might make it unattractive vs waiting for Type054.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I think the refreshing will be done by Engineers
That is not an issue if it was me , I would have already purchased these 4-7 Ships

Loaded it up with HERBA and get some Chinese CWIS solution for protection
Radar we would have made something local over time for these machines

I don't like to have headaches with long delivery timelines my approach is fill gap now and get it done

And Sailors would have been training on the ships


Are the new ships Type 054 / Milgem better? yes they are but this is about "Present" gap

 

[Aamir Hussain]

Sir understand that they are junk!. Weapons are not the only thing on a boat that makes it capable. The power plant steering equipment, electrical systems, safety and firefighting equipment, navigation suit and sensors are some of the things that makes up a ship that can take to sea.

Spares are not available, OEM have ceased to manufacture the equipment.

These ships are now junk.

 

[Akh1112]

Indeed some equipments on SAAR6 is better than 054AP. But I don’t agree that it is totally better armed than 054AP. 054AP has better anti-ship fire, better anti-sub warfare capabilities, better endurance, better SAM missile.

Well, so, the Barak-8 is pretty up there in terms of SAM, it also carries the C-Dome which uses the Tamir missile which IIRC can also be used against aircraft. It also carries 16 AShM's, probably harpoons. Though no, i completely agree with you, i was just saying how classifications of ships means nothing

I think the refreshing will be done by Engineers
That is not an issue if it was me , I would have already purchased these 4-7 Ships

Loaded it up with HERBA and get some Chinese CWIS solution for protection
Radar we would have made something local over time for these machines

I don't like to have headaches with long delivery timelines my approach is fill gap now and get it done

And Sailors would have been training on the ships


Are the new ships Type 054 / Milgem better? yes they are but this is about "Present" gap

Whenever i see your posts, i try to understand the thought process behind them, if im honest, i struggle.

Regardless, at this point why not just induct a few Azmat class FAC's for this 'capabilities gap' you see right now. There's only a few issues with your plan.

Ships have limited lifespan, these things could be at the end of their hull lifespan.

Once again, you can slap Harbah's on some FAC's and have them do a better job than these.

CIWS' are not enough for our threat environment. Having a CIWS against something like a Brahmos, while it will deaden the impact a little, you will still have literal TONS of metal flying towards you at supersonic speeds. Doesn't sound great, does it.

These ships would also need to be upgraded to carry new sensors and ew systems, otherwise, once again, they are pretty much sitting ducks with some offensive capability.

It literally makes no sense to even consider these. Your logic behind this is Destroyer classification= automatically better.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

My thought process is well thought of

• Firstly the ships are not very old they are from 90's and early 2000's as they had been modernized by China
• Pakistan's Military is still flying Cobra fleet from 1970's so the argument of old or new is really not that important

The Ship itself is a carrier of weapons , you can install any modern generation weapon on a Ship with local Engineering. It can be done faster and efficiently with local Engineering

The Ship can serve the 5-8 year period fill gap role while the full assets arrive in Pakistan Navy

• Electronical Systems , can be modernized

• We got our Dinosaur OHP frigates , which came barebone and these were modernized , there is no difference between OHP and the Chinese Ships they are roughly in same generation group

If you put Herba on Azmat or any Ship what does the missiles care , it just needs a target from Sensors and Radars. So any ship can be made modern by means of Weapons upgrade.

Our 1970's Mirage fleet is flying with modernized weapons

 

[Figaro]

Obsolete.

Just because they're obselete does not mean they are of no value ... should maintenance costs be low I don't see any reason why the Pakistani navy shouldn't purchase it when its surface firepower is currently very low

 

[Rafi]

Just because they're obselete does not mean they are of no value ... should maintenance costs be low I don't see any reason why the Pakistani navy shouldn't purchase it when its surface firepower is currently very low

You are right, but cost of maintenance would be prohibitive, they are at the end of their design life.

 

[Areesh]

Close and delete this thread please

 

[Niko Zhang]

Well, so, the Barak-8 is pretty up there in terms of SAM, it also carries the C-Dome which uses the Tamir missile which IIRC can also be used against aircraft. It also carries 16 AShM's, probably harpoons. Though no, i completely agree with you, i was just saying how classifications of ships means nothing

Yes thx my friend, for your thoughts. I just wanna add a few words.

C-Dome is surely very efficient against rockets and drones. They are designed for them. But when it comes to stuff like anti ship missile with strong penetration abilities, or even aircraft that maneuvers, it will have difficulty.

Barak-8, as a SAM, its range looks pretty up, right? But let’s look deep into it. Its max speed is Mach 2. That is simply...unqualified. Low speed means insufficient kinetic energy, meaning difficult to maneuver. Ultimately it means not likely to hit a missile or a plane. Or simple it won’t even be able to catch it. We know that there are many jets can go over Mach-2. Some supersonic anti-ship missile can go over Mach-3 like CM302. It’s hard to even chase its targets...It has a range like 70km, so what? The engine will be off long before it reaches 70km. So basically a good missile or pilot can treat it like a fool in some certain cases. That is exactly why we say Indians are idiots, because they spent so much money and end up with junk like Barak-8. We know the missile of S400, 40N6, has a range of 400km. It’s kinda the same situation.

Yes, SAAR6 has 16 harpoons. But they are harpoons...054AP has 8 CM302. More missile, but backward, less missile but more advanced. They all have their own advantages.

 

[Shabi1]

Lease these ships Till Type054 arrive in Pakistan
Send a delegation and pick up the 4 units and add them immediately in Pakistan Navy

Ships retired May , 2019**
https://www.defenseworld.net/news/2...oyers_Days_after_Commissioning_2_New_Warships

The destroyer flotilla of the Chinese Navy under the PLA Northern Theater Command held a retirement ceremony for four first-generation missile destroyers.

The decommissioning of the 4 ships at a military port in Lyushun, Liaoning Province, followed the induction of two Type 052D guided missile destroyers in the naval shipyard of Dalian on May 12.

Official media identified the decommissioned ships as the guided-missile destroyers Kaifeng (Hull 109), Dalian (Hull 110), Zunyi (Hull 134) and Guilin (Hull 164) All of the four destroyers had been in service for more than 30 years.

A big No... these are liabilities, why put our men in harms way.

Makes no sense to induct these when we are retiring our Type-21 Tariq class guided missile destroyers (ex Amazon class ships). Tariq class has LY-80 SAM and Harpoons, found a article on wikipedia that says the lead ship PNS Babur has Zarb missile capability as well. One was used as target practice recently.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariq-class_destroyer