33 Uzbeks, 3 Germans among the 40 killed in Airstrikes in N.Waziristan.

[waz]

It's amazing that Uzbeks are causing terrorism in Pakistan but you hardly hear anything about terrorism in Uzbekistan. Looks like Uzbek government can keep Uzbek terrorists out of their country but the Pakistani government can't.

Islam Karimov tore men apart, whilst they were alive. He did a great job at destroying this cancer. But and there is a big but, he is a dictator and has total control unlike multi party and democratic Pakistan. There is no human rights body in the country, where as Pakistan has quite a vocal one that lambasts the army in particular.

Many of them (terrorists) were simply pushed over the border to Afghanistan and the rest we know about i.e. porous border and so on.

 

[F117]

Here's what you don't understand, many of these Uzbeks are likely from northern Afghanistan and not Uzbekistan, though Uzbekistan had to deal with it's own terrorism years ago and Pres. Islam Karimov had to fight them for years and there was terrorism all over the country but they have gotten it under better control.

They are from the IMU
Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

After the US invasion, many Chechens, Arabs, Uzbeks found refuge in the tribal areas.

 

[waz]

Honest question, are you kidding me? Where do i say i hate turks? I stand far above racism.



I´m west german. I´m from Bavaria. And the most loud speakers against turks in germany are from west germany. Organisations like Pro Köln and so on. Having lived in germany you should know that. Beside that, the only racism i see here is you...against east germans.

Lol@Marcus being bigoted. I can tell you from conversing with this guy offline he is a great guy and just look at his visit Pakistan thread.

Marcus take it on the chin my friend. By the way Bavaria is fantastic!

 

[Armstrong]

The military would be happy to conduct a ground Op but it would then be Taliban apologists like you who would complain. Teach some of this fancy tafseer to the Taliban as well, I don't care if Adnan Rasheed's son died, the death of one outweighs the death of hundreds.

What if the the TTP disperse through their bases in North Waziristan into the rest of Pakistan or go back to Afghanistan ?

And what if we end up antagonizing one or more Taliban (not TTP) groups based in NW & incur the wrath of Mullah Omar in turn ? Hardly something we could control right now.....don't you think ?

 

[Icarus]

What if the the TTP disperse through their bases in North Waziristan into the rest of Pakistan or go back to Afghanistan ?

That is imminent, but when dispersed into smaller groups without much area to operate, the groups will lose their operational capability and will be less of a threat. From blowing up cars filled with 100+ kgs of explosives every other week, they will be limited to shooting a random bystander or lobbing a grenade at a bus stand once in a year or so.

And what if we end up antagonizing one or more Taliban (not TTP) groups based in NW & incur the wrath of Mullah Omar in turn ? Hardly something we could control right now.....don't you think ?

We have no more groups to antagonize, trust me, this can only get better for us. As for Mullah Omar, he is a figure head, most Afghan Taliban groups have largely forsaken his leadership and there are very serious doubts about whether if he is even alive.

 

[Armstrong]

That is imminent, but when dispersed into smaller groups without much area to operate, the groups will lose their operational capability and will be less of a threat. From blowing up cars filled with 100+ kgs of explosives every other week, they will be limited to shooting a random bystander or lobbing a grenade at a bus stand once in a year or so.

Wouldn't there dispersal in our towns & our cities give them the chance to act with even greater impunity than before because our Army can't go after them street-to-street nor is our Police up to the mark, from what I've heard, to tackle them ?

We have no more groups to antagonize, trust me, this can only get better for us. As for Mullah Omar, he is a figure head, most Afghan Taliban groups have largely forsaken his leadership and there are very serious doubts about whether if he is even alive.

What became of the Haqqanis being the 'veritable arm of the ISI' according to Mullen, I presume ?

What happened to our 'influence' in bringing the Afghan Taliban to the negotiating table with the US if they don't even listen to us ?

 

[Chronos]

To all the Pakistani peaceniks like Imran Khan.

Long ago in Colombia, FARC was thought to be invincible as well.

But Alvaro Uribe put an end to that didn't he?

Besides, Taliban can't call themselves 'true Muslims' because true Muslims don't kill fellow Muslims.

Don't bellyache now because Pakistani military is coming after you, should have thought about that before you killed Thousands of innocent pakistanis.

Stone age cavemen, the lot of them.

 

[Icarus]

Wouldn't there dispersal in our towns & our cities give them the chance to act with even greater impunity than before because our Army can't go after them street-to-street nor is our Police up to the mark, from what I've heard, to tackle them ?

That depends, if you let them set up alternate governments like in Karachi then you have a problem but even then, the scale of operations will be much smaller than it is now.

What became of the Haqqanis being the 'veritable arm of the ISI' according to Mullen, I presume ?

Pakistan has some influence over the Haqqanis but to say that they are the "Veritable arm of the ISI" is a huge overstatement. If it comes to that, the Haqqanis will not hesitate to attack Pakistan.

What happened to our 'influence' in bringing the Afghan Taliban to the negotiating table with the US if they don't even listen to us ?

Influence and control are two very diverse concepts, we can propose to them to take up dialogue and act as guarantors but to think that we can in anyway mould their decisions is fool hardy.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

Here's what you don't understand, many of these Uzbeks are likely from northern Afghanistan and not Uzbekistan, though Uzbekistan had to deal with it's own terrorism years ago and Pres. Islam Karimov had to fight them for years and there was terrorism all over the country but they have gotten it under better control.

Why aren't these Afghan Uzbeks creating trouble in Afghanistan ? Why are they in Pakistan and creating trouble there ? Again you don't hear anything about Uzbek terror in Afghanistan like what you hear about Pashtun Taliban.

 

[Armstrong]

That depends, if you let them set up alternate governments like in Karachi then you have a problem but even then, the scale of operations will be much smaller than it is now.

Pakistan has some influence over the Haqqanis but to say that they are the "Veritable arm of the ISI" is a huge overstatement. If it comes to that, the Haqqanis will not hesitate to attack Pakistan.

Influence and control are two very diverse concepts, we can propose to them to take up dialogue and act as guarantors but to think that we can in anyway mould their decisions is fool hardy.

I was thinking along the lines of - Asking them to reign in the TTP for us & if worse comes to worse them disown them if not take them on side-by-side the Pakistan Army ?

Judging by your comment - It doesn't seem like that they - or any one else for that matter - is our 'Strategic Asset' as has been asserted a million times on the Media & even by some of the more, apparently, responsible individuals !

 

[Icarus]

Why aren't these Afghan Uzbeks creating trouble in Afghanistan ? Why are they in Pakistan and creating trouble there ? Again you don't hear anything about Uzbek terror in Afghanistan like what you hear about Pashtun Taliban.

IMU has close links with the TTP, their Amir was married to Hakeemullah's sister. So you understand why they choose to operate from NWA, much more receptive populace.

I was thinking along the lines of - Asking them to reign in the TTP for us & if worse comes to worse them disown them if not take them on side-by-side the Pakistan Army ?

Highly unlikely.

Judging by your comment - It doesn't seem like that they - or any one else for that matter - is our 'Strategic Asset' as has been asserted a million times on the Media & even by some of the more, apparently, responsible individuals !

The strategic asset theory was based in the 80s, extended to the 90s and was long dead by the 2000s.

 

[A1Kaid]

Why aren't these Afghan Uzbeks creating trouble in Afghanistan ? Why are they in Pakistan and creating trouble there ? Again you don't hear anything about Uzbek terror in Afghanistan like what you hear about Pashtun Taliban.

Politics and factions is a big part of it to put it simply...

 

[Armstrong]

IMU has close links with the TTP, their Amir was married to Hakeemullah's sister. So you understand why they choose to operate from NWA, much more receptive populace.

Wait are you telling me that you guys did create them in the '80s & then used them in the '90s ?

Yaaaaaaaaar Icarus marvaaaaa diyaaaaa !

And here I was under the impression that the Taliban were an emerging group amongst dozens of different groups being used & abused as proxies by everyone when the Mujahideen splintered into dozens of factions & that we never created them but facilitated their rise in hopes that some semblance of peace would be restored to Afghanistan after having persevered with Hikmatyar & even Masood to no avail - They were more interested in killing Afghans then restoring peace or dealing with those Warlords who were being used as proxies against us !

 

[Icarus]

Wait are you telling me that you guys did create them in the '80s & then used them in the '90s ?

Yaaaaaaaaar Icarus marvaaaaa diyaaaaa !

And here I was under the impression that the Taliban were an emerging group amongst dozens of different groups being used & abused as proxies by everyone when the Mujahideen splintered into dozens of factions & that we never created them but facilitated their rise in hopes that some semblance of peace would be restored to Afghanistan after having persevered with Hikmatyar & even Masood to no avail - They were more interested in killing Afghans then restoring peace or dealing with those Warlords who were being used as proxies against us !

They were not "used". That was a simplified explanation. The advent of the Mujahideen in the 80s in known to all. In the 90s, we aimed to build a rapport with the Taliban when they came into power by giving them a platform to propel them into global politics as the righful govt of Afghanistan, us and the Saudis. That's what I was hinting at.

 

[Armstrong]

They were not "used". That was a simplified explanation. The advent of the Mujahideen in the 80s in known to all. In the 90s, we aimed to build a rapport with the Taliban when they came into power by giving them a platform to propel them into global politics as the righful govt of Afghanistan, us and the Saudis. That's what I was hinting at.

If you had to go back & do it all over again - What would you different ?