2nd Pak FA prototype maiden flight pics

[tanlixiang28776]

It remains baseless and there is a play on words here. In order to have a reasonable comparison, we need a 'base' and a 'comp'. It does not matter if A is 'base' or 'comp'. But as long as one is missing, you cannot make statements even to the effect of 'approximately'.

Fine but we have neither for the any of these planes, besides that they are stealthier than predecessors. It is not unreasonable to infer that planes that have similar intakes would have similar results in that area.

Then do not make statements like 'approximately equal' for anything.

Then there is no room for discussion at all.

The issue here is not so much the exhaust stream length but the core temperature of the exhaust itself. A rectangular shape will have a lower core temperature overall.

Is this chart comparing normal circular exhausts with the rectangular exhausts, or the new LOAN designs?

 

[khatarnak gunda]

by the technical point of view
Chinese stealth is more more advance design than the pakfa

which technical points are declassified (annonced to public) of those said aircrafts? on which you are claiming anything.....

 

[gambit]

Fine but we have neither for the any of these planes, besides that they are stealthier than predecessors. It is not unreasonable to infer that planes that have similar intakes would have similar results in that area.

Of course it is unreasonable. At least it was because you Chinese boys jumped to the wrong conclusion that since the F-35 has diverterless supersonic inlets they must be for RCS control. Any assumption based upon false conclusions should be discarded.

Then there is no room for discussion at all.

Correct...When it comes to the F-22 there should be no discussions.

Is this chart comparing normal circular exhausts with the rectangular exhausts, or the new LOAN designs?

It is just a comparison of IR emissions between the two designs. Of course we can install additional mechanisms to further reduce the exhaust's IR emissions, but that is another issue.

 

[tanlixiang28776]

Of course it is unreasonable. At least it was because you Chinese boys jumped to the wrong conclusion that since the F-35 has diverterless supersonic inlets they must be for RCS control. Any assumption based upon false conclusions should be discarded.

"Chinese boys" again. Do you really have nothing better you can come up with? I stated in the my post that they that between DSI and non DSI it made little difference. Just respond to the post instead of degenerating into a he said she said thing. Can't even have a decent technical discussion anymore? Thought you were just crazy in the idealogical threads?

Correct...When it comes to the F-22 there should be no discussions.

What is the F 22 the messiah now? It was designed by humans so there are obviously flaws as well.

It is just a comparison of IR emissions between the two designs. Of course we can install additional mechanisms to further reduce the exhaust's IR emissions, but that is another issue.

No they are the same issue. If LOAN designs can be better than the rectangular design in the F 22 then there is a counter argument.

 

[Kinetic]

Not neccesarily, that's just a different way to achieve the same, either you use one centered systen like the Russians did on older bombers (was planed for Su 34 as well, not sure if they done it):

Sukhoi Su-34 Fullback; Russia's New Heavy Strike Fighter (scroll down)

Elbit MUSIC:

Israel Embarks on a $76 Million Air Transport Defense Plan

Or like the system on offer for the F18 Silent hornet:

Rafale has them on each side of the SPECTRA pod:

Thats for the info.

 

[sancho]

"Chinese boys" again. Do you really have nothing better you can come up with? I stated in the my post that they that between DSI and non DSI it made little difference.

Although I wouldn't say it's typical for Chinese, because a lot of Pakistanis use the same wrong argument about DSI, but the point is simply the fact that Chinese fighters like JF 17, J 10 and now J20 uses DSI and many simply confuse it with stealth.
Many people simply base an hypothetical superiority of J20 in terms of stealth, "only" because of the ducted intakes + DSI (sometimes combined with the one pice canopy), while ignoring that the most important point for an stealth fighter is the airframe design, or the coatings. But the earlier is very similar for T50 compared to US, or Chinese stealth fighters and coatings are not even added which makes a conclusion on that not possible.

 

[tallboy123]

^^ DSI means..???

 

[BlueDot_in_Space]

^^ DSI means..???

A diverterless supersonic inlet (DSI) is a type of jet engine air intake used by some modern combat aircraft to control air flow into their engines. It consists of a "bump" and a forward-swept inlet cowl, which work together to divert boundary layer airflow away from the aircraft's engine while compressing the air to slow it down from supersonic speed. The DSI can be used to replace conventional methods of controlling supersonic and boundary layer airflow, such as the intake ramp and inlet cone, which are more complex, heavy and expensive.

Source:whhhikhhhi

 

[GORKHALI]

 

[archangel]

FGFA and Pak-FA are two different projects. Teams are also different. PAK-FA is Russian project. FGFA is going to be Indo-Russian from scratch but will have inputs from Pak-FA because GoI funded part of Pak-FA.

IAF is still busy finalizing their FGFA requirements. It is already delayed, call it piss-poor planning in IAF or anything. They never get their requirements correct and on time. Always confused browsing through western aircraft brouchers. But then that's the price of being a "customer"/importer who has no control of expertise over technology changes.

Airforces of developed countries "make" and "shape" technology roadmap they want to ride on in future. IAF is only airforce which is always lagging and "reacts" to technology changes by "importing" new and new products, rather than developing a vision and roadmap of technology maturisation within domestic industry. Thanks to DRDO's undying unrelenting efforts and pursuation of "self-reliance", otherwise there wouldn't be even LCA project around today.

US Airforce has about 2000 research projects within and across American R&D institutes and universities, on their OWN budget. Also, US Airforce owns above 4000 technology patents(result of this R&D funding).

On other extreme, how much IAF spent on developing local expertise other than, paying millions of $$ to Israelis for giving advices to them, on how to design their information networks?

India is fast becoming a joke. No wonder, noone takes Indians seriously and Indian's bid for UN secretary post was rejected. Its the time that we open our eyes and holes and focus on domestic capabilities building rather than running IAF on foreign brains.

Having a nuclear bum doesn't make you superpower. Technology and patents do.

Thanks for posting something about FGFA and PAK-FA..... Other than two-seater variant, what else is different in FGFA as compared to PAK-FA....???? Also, I'm interested in knowing if FGFA is going to be made in a different material as compared to PAK-FA because I had heard that PAK-FA consisted of titanium and alloys whereas FGFA will have on it a skin of composite material..... What about the on-board flight computers and mission computers and other electronic softwares, systems and sub-systems, will it be same or different as per the roles they will play in their respective countries???? All in all, I want to know what is India's contribution to this project other than the money it is investing into it......

Also, I have come across an article by the Australian Defence which had made a rough analysis of PAK-FA from its first flight videos and pictures and had concluded that it exceeds F-35 in terms of both stealth(from stealth features integrated into its designing), utility, agility and cost effectiveness..... I dunno about the reliability of this analysis but it seems like a good news to me!!!!

Is this a 5th generation fighter or even F-22, is that a 5th generation because F-22 is not accepted as a 5th-generation machine but as 4++ generation with stress on stealth but since the official project was named as "5th-generation fighter aircraft", it has been referred to as a 5-th gen fighter aircraft.... BTW what it is the demarcation line between a 4++ and a 5th gen fighter aircraft?????

 

[archangel]

u r right...
Becoz F-22 intakes are small and engines are closer and it has 2D nozzle...so only the jets which has the same features are stealth planes......
Russians has worked from Mig 2.1 project from about decades and will bring out a Higher Quality jets...Russia now has more funds,India will also provide huge funds...We won't compromise on quality......
They(russians) have approached to stealth in a different manner,not like Chinese J-20 similar to F-22..

BTW does J-20 has 2d or 3D nozzles...? can see it in pic and tell...?

Difference is not just in approach to stealth but also to roles assigned!!!! DO you think that a plane as huge as J-20 can maneuver in a dog fight or in any air-to-air engagements???? Its primary purpose is strategic bombing, hence the huge internal weapons bay.... However, things like canards in a stealth aircraft have absolutely no explanation in terms of stealth..... Also, its design integrates many features from both F-22 and F-35 but partially like its tail-fins and other components of its air-frame..... Also, it isn't exactly an original design with many features borrowed from PAK-FA and F-22 Raptor as well as F-35, especially believed after the cyber-espionage which resulted in stealing of many details of the 2 latter aircrafts......

[This content is made by weaving parts from different critics' rough analysis of the plane]!!!!!!!

 

[RPK]

ENTERPRISE TECHNOLOGY "HAS MASTERED THE PRODUCTION OF PARTS TO THE PROMISING FIGHTER

25.04.11

Interfax-AVN, April 21. Obninsk Scientific-Production Enterprise (SME), "Technology will participate in the production of promising aviation complex tactical aircraft (PAK FA, code T-50), said on Thursday, Deputy General Director of the company on research and innovation work Oleg Commissioner.

"NPP has mastered the production design of 28 elements of the wing and fuselage fighter T-50 made of composite materials. The fundamental decision on the participation of enterprises in the mass production of the fighter made", - said A. Commissioner "Interfax-AVN at the 12 th International Forum" High Technologies 1921 Century "(BT-21) in Moscow.

"We are talking about development in the production of structural elements of the T-50 from high-quality carbon fiber. Under the issue of structural elements of aircraft composites organized their pilot production" - said the agency interlocutor.

He recalled that in the ongoing development work on the T-50 holding "Dry" last year were delivered several sets of design elements.

In addition, in the interests of making the fighter business can also supply on-board navigation lights - they are well kept the temperature does not change color, "- said Oleg Commissioner.

"With these supplies, we proved that we can make high-quality parts from new materials and new technologies. The production of these parts is very complicated and not every company is able to deploy a series of experimental and serial production", - said the representative of the SPE "technology."

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[RPK]

 

[RPK]

 

[RPK]