2nd Fast Attack Craft (FAC) Launched in Karachi

[Penguin]

This is from SIPRI data base 1950-2007 Pak-China missile trades. C803 for F-22ps are mentioned.

Transfers of major conventional weapons: sorted by supplier. Deals with deliveries or orders made for year range 1950 to 2007
Note: The ‘No. delivered/produced’ and the ‘Year(s) of deliveries’ columns refer to all deliveries since the beginning of the contract. Deals in which the recipient was involved in the production of the weapon system are listed separately. The ‘Comments’ column includes publicly reported information on the value of the deal. Information on the sources and methods used in the collection of the data, and explanations of the conventions, abbreviations and acronyms, can be found at URL <http://armstrade.sipri.org/>. The SIPRI Arms Transfers Database is continuously updated as new information becomes available.
Source: SIPRI Arms Transfers Database
Information generated: 20 October 2008


Supplier/ Year Year(s) No.
recipient (R) No. Weapon Weapon of order/ of delivered/
or licenser (L) ordered designation description licence deliveries produced Comments


China
R: Pakistan (16) HY-2/SY-1A/CSS-N-2 Anti-ship missile 1980 1981 (16) For Hegu (Haibat) FAC; SY-1A (CSS-N-2) version
(40) HQ-2/CSA-1 SAM (1983) 1983 (40)
(32) HY-1/SY-1/CSS-N-1 Anti-ship missile 1983 1984 (32) For Huangfen (Azmat) FAC
(100) HN-5A Portable SAM (1984) 1987 (100)
(36) LY-60 SAM (1994) 1996-1997 (36) For 3 modernized Tariq (Amazon) Class frigates
(20) C-802/CSS-N-8/Saccade Anti-ship missile 1997 1997-1999 (20) For Jalalat FAC
(20) C-802/CSS-N-8/Saccade Anti-ship missile (2003) 2006 (20) For Jalalat FAC
(40) C-803 Anti-ship missile (2005) For Jiangwei (F-22P) frigates
(70) R-440 Crotale SAM (2005) For Jiangwei (F-22P) frigates; HQ-7 (FM-80) version

L: (1000) HN-5A Portable SAM (1988) 1989-1998 (1000) Pakistani designation Anza-1
(55) M-11/CSS-7 SSM (1988) 1992-1994 (55) Incl assembly in Pakistan
. . Red Arrow-8 Anti-tank missile 1989 1990-2007 (14600) Pakistani designation Baktar Shikan
. . QW-1 Vanguard Portable SAM (1993) 1994-2007 (1150) Pakistani designation Anza-2

From today's PMoD/PN website:

PN Missile Complex (PNMC) As the name implies it takes care of the storage, maintenance and repair of missiles, air to surface Exocet AM-39, subsurface to surface SM-39, surface to surface SY-I(G), all three versions of Harpoons, surface to air Mistral, LY-60(N) and surface to surface C-802.

.: PAKISTAN NAVY :. A Silent Force to Reckon with... [ a 4 dimensional force]

Considering what they bother to list, why would they exclude C803 if they have it?

 

[Dazzler]

C-803s are in service with PN since 2005 onwards without any question. PN website is no the best reference as they seldom update it and has plenty of errors.

 

[Doctor09]

r u sure we have C-803 because i have not heard about it

 

[Dazzler]

yes we do but there is a bit of confusion. it is a similar case of F-7p and mp. Two different versions but both classified as P.

 

[regular]

r u sure we have C-803 because i have not heard about it

Whatever China got it we got it so don't worry about it....

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

He wanted to say C-602 i guess.

120 were ordered in 2009 and delivered in 2010

 

[Dazzler]

From today's PMoD/PN website:

.: PAKISTAN NAVY :. A Silent Force to Reckon with... [ a 4 dimensional force]

Considering what they bother to list, why would they exclude C803 if they have it?

check the surface fleet section and tell me where is F-22p mentioned? Check the helo section, where is Z-9EC?

 

[Penguin]

This is from SIPRI data base 1950-2007 Pak-China missile trades. C803 for F-22ps are mentioned.

Transfers of major conventional weapons: sorted by supplier. Deals with deliveries or orders made for year range 1950 to 2007
Note: The &#8216;No. delivered/produced&#8217; and the &#8216;Year(s) of deliveries&#8217; columns refer to all deliveries since the beginning of the contract. Deals in which the recipient was involved in the production of the weapon system are listed separately. The &#8216;Comments&#8217; column includes publicly reported information on the value of the deal. Information on the sources and methods used in the collection of the data, and explanations of the conventions, abbreviations and acronyms, can be found at URL <http://armstrade.sipri.org/>. The SIPRI Arms Transfers Database is continuously updated as new information becomes available.
Source: SIPRI Arms Transfers Database
Information generated: 20 October 2008


Supplier/ Year Year(s) No.
recipient (R) No. Weapon Weapon of order/ of delivered/
or licenser (L) ordered designation description licence deliveries produced Comments


China
R: Pakistan (16) HY-2/SY-1A/CSS-N-2 Anti-ship missile 1980 1981 (16) For Hegu (Haibat) FAC; SY-1A (CSS-N-2) version
(40) HQ-2/CSA-1 SAM (1983) 1983 (40)
(32) HY-1/SY-1/CSS-N-1 Anti-ship missile 1983 1984 (32) For Huangfen (Azmat) FAC
(100) HN-5A Portable SAM (1984) 1987 (100)
(36) LY-60 SAM (1994) 1996-1997 (36) For 3 modernized Tariq (Amazon) Class frigates
(20) C-802/CSS-N-8/Saccade Anti-ship missile 1997 1997-1999 (20) For Jalalat FAC
(20) C-802/CSS-N-8/Saccade Anti-ship missile (2003) 2006 (20) For Jalalat FAC
(40) C-803 Anti-ship missile (2005) For Jiangwei (F-22P) frigates
(70) R-440 Crotale SAM (2005) For Jiangwei (F-22P) frigates; HQ-7 (FM-80) version

L: (1000) HN-5A Portable SAM (1988) 1989-1998 (1000) Pakistani designation Anza-1
(55) M-11/CSS-7 SSM (1988) 1992-1994 (55) Incl assembly in Pakistan
. . Red Arrow-8 Anti-tank missile 1989 1990-2007 (14600) Pakistani designation Baktar Shikan
. . QW-1 Vanguard Portable SAM (1993) 1994-2007 (1150) Pakistani designation Anza-2

'Don't know how you got the above result but I went to the Sipri arms trade register database today and asked for China to Pakistan trade in the period 2000-2011 for missiles only. The results I get do not list ANY C-803...

http://armstrade.sipri.org/armstrade/page/trade_register.php

 

[Dazzler]

i saved it a long time ago. It is genuine SIPRI database Sad thing is, i cant find it on internet anymore

 

[Penguin]

check the surface fleet section and tell me where is F-22p mentioned? Check the helo section, where is Z-9EC?

Press release, among other places.

http://www.paknavy.gov.pk/pn_event_pr3.htm
(press releases go back to 2008 but some are as recent as 07 OCTOBER 2011)

 

[Penguin]

i saved it a long time ago. It is genuine SIPRI database Sad thing is, i cant find it on internet anymore

Don't feel bad, I did the same search but selected SHIPs instead of Mossiles, and guess what I got (that is obviously wrong)

China
L: Pakistan
4 Type-053H/Jiangwei Frigate 2005 2009-2010 3 $500-750 m deal; F-22P version; incl 1 produced in Pakistan; Pakistani designation Zulfiquar, delivery 2009-2013
2 Type-022/Houbei FAC 2010 Designation uncertain; incl 1 produced in Pakistan; delivery probably 2011/2012

We know this to be incorrect, don't we .... ;-)
So, SIPRI isn't flawless either. Just as JANES isn't.

 

[Dazzler]

i meant the website is not updated as well as have errors. Even hovercraft, BN-2T are not mentioned yet these systems are in active service.

 

[Penguin]

120 were ordered in 2009 and delivered in 2010

C-602 not listed by SIPRI ..... (see earlier post with attachment)

 

[Dazzler]

trust me it is in service and sipri is not flawless either but my souce is

 

[Penguin]

trust me it is in service and sipri is not flawless either but my souce is

Well, no. I trust what crossreferencing a multitude of open sources yields. Not an unknown.

As for SIPRI, you yourself brought it in as 'credible source'. I then showed you that your credible source does not currently lists c803. Then it turned out your SIPRI quote was three-four years OLD, as in database of 2007 queried in 2008. [score: Sipri 1, you nil]. Then, I gave an the example of a relatively new entry in SIPRI which was obviously wrong. I think we can now safely establish that while SIPRI makes errors early on, when information is scarce, they do correct entries as more info become available. That makes them trusworthy in my book (more trusworthy at least than an unverifiable source like 'somebody's uncle's friend who knows somebody ....') [score: Sipri 2, you nil].

Aside from many blog and forum entries, the only 'trustworthy' source I would on C-602 to PN says:

In 2009 the Pakistan Navy purchased 120 Chinese C-602 long range anti-ship cruise missiles from China to counter the threat posed to the surface fleet of Pakistan's navy by the proliferation of the Russian supersonic AntiShip missiles P-800 Oniks / Yakhont / PJ-10 Brahmos. The YJ-62 missile may be the basis for a future PLAN land attack cruise missile comparable to US Navy's Tomahawk. The YJ-62 can be fitted with an alternative seeker to enable engagement of land targets.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/c-602.htm

Some blog and forum entries are at least honest, like this one (Aviation Week):

Pakistan is believed to have acquired recently a coastal-defense variant of the Chinese C-602 (YJ-62) anti-ship missile,

C-602 is offered for export. It is a big (some 7m, 1350kg incl booster) Tomahawk-like missile (see Type 052C Luyang II destroyer) that doesn't fit any current PN platforms, so if ordered then probably the landmobile coastal defence missile. Meanwhile, whule PN may have purchased (ordered) it, that does not mean it has been delivered (transferred - it is called arms transfer database isn't it!) or that there is sufficient confirmation to warrent entry into SIPRI database. Both reasons why c-602 may not be listed (yet) by Sipri [score: Sipri 3, you nil]

MissileThreat :: China Offers YJ-62/C-602 Anti-Ship Cruise Missile for Export
PLA Cruise Missiles / PLA Air - Surface Missiles
http://www.deagel.com/Anti-Ship-Missiles/YJ-62_a001832001.aspx

And guess what, it also isn't listed on the PN website!