25 Years of Exile of Kashmiri Pandit : What happened on January 19, 1990 ?

[AshishDelhi]

Indians are continually seeking to obfuscate the reality that Kashmir is an occupied zone where its people are severely oppressed and over 87% want freedom according to polls. So stop all this poor pundits. 93,000 plus have died in the war for Kashmir and majority of them are civilians.

This is what some other pundits say:

This is what Arundhati Roy says:

I don't understand how the Indians here take the moral high ground when they are oppressing, raping and murdering in Kashmir. We need to constantly raise the Kashmir issue at every forum, every opportunity we get.

Since Modi came the propaganda war is gaining intensity. First threats to reform the education system into Hindutvadi ideals and killing of a family in riots now more on the way.

Kashmiri Pandit issue is real. They had to leave their homes and moved to Jammu, Delhi or wherever they had relatives.

 

[Butchcassidy]

Whoever thinks 370 will be scraped is naive. They dont understand politics

 

[Agent Smith]

now muslims are majority in kashmir, they succeded in thier conspiracy and hijra secular goivts just f******* watched.

 

[kurup]

Indians are continually seeking to obfuscate the reality that Kashmir is an occupied zone where its people are severely oppressed and over 87% want freedom according to polls. So stop all this poor pundits. 93,000 plus have died in the war for Kashmir and majority of them are civilians.

....... Ususal BS lies one can surely expect from Pakistanis .

Collected between January 1990 and April 2011, the records are comprehensive and give year-wise breakup of all violent incidents in the state, the nature of the acts of violence, the number of people killed, and also the circumstances that led to the deaths.

Here's what the data says. In the last 21 years, 43,460 people have been killed in the Kashmir insurgency. Of these, 21,323 are militants, 13,226 civilians killed by militants, 3,642 civilians killed by security forces, and 5,369 policemen killed by militants. The 21,323 militants were killed in operations by security forces and include both Kashmiri and foreign militants. And of the 5,369 members of the security forces, around 1,500 are Kashmiri policemen.

State data refutes claim of 1 lakh killed in Kashmir - The Times of India

 

[SrNair]

I am a Keralite as well, I really really doubt anything of this sort would happen. There would be immediate consequences in today's world. Besides RSS is growing in leaps and bounds especially in Kerala.

Native place?? We didnt see in kerala corner.
You should see our muslim majority coastallines and malabar areas.You can seee their hardcore influence.Not all of them .But a good chunk of them.

Indians are continually seeking to obfuscate the reality that Kashmir is an occupied zone where its people are severely oppressed and over 87% want freedom according to polls. So stop all this poor pundits. 93,000 plus have died in the war for Kashmir and majority of them are civilians.

This is what some other pundits say:

This is what Arundhati Roy says:

I don't understand how the Indians here take the moral high ground when they are oppressing, raping and murdering in Kashmir. We need to constantly raise the Kashmir issue at every forum, every opportunity we get.

Since Modi came the propaganda war is gaining intensity. First threats to reform the education system into Hindutvadi ideals and killing of a family in riots now more on the way.

I think these 93000+ number would be a mistake by unconsicously mixing 71 surrender s
with Kashmir.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

bhai , you sound ambiguous and your posts contradict each other , is there any chance for revoking article 370 ?? i read KM birth rate is slowing down , could this change the demographics in kashmir ??

Not ambiguous. My points are far too radical to even speak in person, let alone write down.
Yeah KM fertility has gone down - but that alone can't do anything.

with so much negativity inside your heart ...I wonder what you will do in your life ?

You are just 24 ...and your heart is filled with venom of hatred and revenge ...

the way with you speak that 50,000 have been killed by IA or that current generation of yahoos being slained by the IA ...
You seems to enjoy that .

I feel sorry and sad for the situation that has made you like this .

Now I am 25. I loved this post of yours.
Note: I kinda do enjoy the death of terrorists. Pity that Bitta Karate, Yasin Malik etc roam free.
Also interesting is that, those with a softer stance, or with a positive attitude have left their homeland - and are NEVER likely to be ABLE to return. We have stayed. Not because we were allowed to, but because we CAN.

Why worry unnecessarily when there's nothing that can be done to change the outcome

@ SarthakGanguly why is the west pakistani refugee issue being raked up these days?

Because they are Sikh and Hindu. The folks came from Sialkot during the friggin Partition. Their numbers are not very low now. The Valley politicians and public are apprehensivepleasantry about giving citizenship to non Muslims - it might upset their demographic majority...which has actually come down dramatically. It's just another anti Hindu/Sikh movement...
Funny, these folks live in Jammu and not Kashmir...but you get the point.

 

[Star Wars]

Native place?? We didnt see in kerala corner.
You should see our muslim majority coastallines and malabar areas.You can seee their hardcore influence.Not all of them .But a good chunk of them.
.

Palakkad, I know i have noticed among my Muslims friends. My point is not their influence. This time nobody is going to take it lying down.There will be country wide repercussions.

 

[ExtraOdinary]

Indians are continually seeking to obfuscate the reality that Kashmir is an occupied zone where its people are severely oppressed and over 87% want freedom according to polls. So stop all this poor pundits. 93,000 plus have died in the war for Kashmir and majority of them are civilians.

This is what some other pundits say:

This is what Arundhati Roy says:

I don't understand how the Indians here take the moral high ground when they are oppressing, raping and murdering in Kashmir. We need to constantly raise the Kashmir issue at every forum, every opportunity we get.

Since Modi came the propaganda war is gaining intensity. First threats to reform the education system into Hindutvadi ideals and killing of a family in riots now more on the way.

This should tell you that there will be no compromise from our side, no matter how many lives it costs. Regarding the moral high ground and raising the issue internationally, I wonder how many people would support you after what's happening in Paris, in Xingjiang, in even frikkin Philippines and Thailand. Times have changed, people have started connecting the dots to realise where the root of the problem really lies.

 

[Indo-guy]

Now I am 25. I loved this post of yours.
Note: I kinda do enjoy the death of terrorists. Pity that Bitta Karate, Yasin Malik etc roam free.
Also interesting is that, those with a softer stance, or with a positive attitude have left their homeland - and are NEVER likely to be ABLE to return. We have stayed. Not because we were allowed to, but because we CAN. .

" What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet lose their soul in the process ? " - Matthew

Now you say that you enjoy death of terrorists . which is a very convenient narrative . In your previous posts when you said that IS has killed 50,000 persons or slayed current generation of 'yahoos' you did not refer them as terrorists .

sure each and every one who was killed among those large number of people can't be terrorist .

This is where is the sad part - that you derive pleasure in all this .

Question is not whether you have managed to stay or not ...question is what price you have paid ?

It seems you have paid a very huge price ... and that is of yourself .

 

[doppelganger]

@Indo-guy

Please understand. There is only one way to kill an insurgency.

Become a better killer than the insurgents.

50,000, 70,000, what does it really matter? These are numbers. Spread over a quarter century.

Please look at what is at stake, and the numbers it impacts, and THEN measure that against the 50-70,000.

India is looked at as a model around the world now in terms of state stamina, patience, ability to stay the course, and readiness to kill, in the numbers required, when it comes to the integrity of the nation. All bets are off then. Witness the action taken against the Sikhs after more than a decade of bloodshed and violence versus the softer current approach against the naxals. Let the naxals make that one final mistake of raising the pitch to secession, and see that change.

You think it is a bed of roses keeping a nation as diverse as India together, with its plethora of fault lines? Blood was spilt, blood is being spilt, blood will be spilt. But the integrity of the nation will not be compromised. That message by now has gone out pretty clearly.

The Kashmiris understand that pretty well by now as well. New generations will be born, but fewer and fewer will need to be killed, as the message takes hold deeper into their psyche. Till the insurgency dies off of its own natural accord. The state can out-wait the insurgents, and the old snakes with the maximum poison are close to their death bed now. No need to help them along. Nature will prevail in the end.

 

[Indo-guy]

@Indo-guy

Please understand. There is only one way to kill an insurgency.

Become a better killer than the insurgents.

50,000, 70,000, what does it really matter? These are numbers. Spread over a quarter century.

Please look at what is at stake, and the numbers it impacts, and THEN measure that against the 50-70,000.

India is looked at as a model around the world now in terms of state stamina, patience, ability to stay the course, and readiness to kill, in the numbers required, when it comes to the integrity of the nation. All bets are off then. Witness the action taken against the Sikhs after more than a decade of bloodshed and violence versus the softer current approach against the naxals. Let the naxals make that one final mistake of raising the pitch to secession, and see that change.

You think it is a bed of roses keeping a nation as diverse as India together, with its plethora of fault lines? Blood was spilt, blood is being spilt, blood will be spilt. But the integrity of the nation will not be compromised. That message by now has gone out pretty clearly.

The Kashmiris understand that pretty well by now as well. New generations will be born, but fewer and fewer will need to be killed, as the message takes hold deeper into their psyche. Till the insurgency dies off of its own natural accord. The state can out-wait the insurgents, and the old snakes with the maximum poison are close to their death bed now. No need to help them along. Nature will prevail in the end.

I agree !

we will wear out the extremists and we have been .
The numbers with which Kashmiris participated in recently concluded elections is testimony of that .

I also agree that there is price to be paid in keeping nation together and there will be collateral damage .

I also know that innocents will suffer and blood of innocents will also be spilled along with those are guilty ..in this protracted conflict .

where did I deny all this ?

all I am saying that we have no reasons to put things in back and white ....

there is no reason to glorify what is happening either ...

while innocents have died , have been dying and will be dying ...least we can do is not to engage in justifying and glorifying it .

 

[doppelganger]

@Indo-guy

I do not think any Indian needs to justify anything with regard to Kashmir and Kashmiris.

It is what it is, and at least I accept it. In fact as a young Indian, I chaff at the bit and feel we are way too slow and have done too little. Especially against those that waged war on our own 25 years ago.

I agree the circumstances were not ideal. International spotlight was on us. And India then was way different to what India is today.

But we should have done more. At the very least, kept it alive in national memory. In that we failed. That has been my line of argument here on this thread. Nothing else.

 

[Indo-guy]

@Indo-guy

I do not think any Indian needs to justify anything with regard to Kashmir and Kashmiris.

It is what it is, and at least I accept it. In fact as a young Indian, I chaff at the bit and feel we are way too slow and have done too little. Especially against those that waged war on our own 25 years ago.

I agree the circumstances were not ideal. International spotlight was on us. And India then was way different to what India is today.

But we should have done more. At the very least, kept it alive in national memory. In that we failed. That has been my line of argument here on this thread. Nothing else.

We should learn from blunders in past and strive to prevent replay of events like that ...

In a continental country like India with billion plus population and long recorded past of thousands of years ...there are many memories ...some memories are so deeply etched that they are never forgotten ...and some are mere fleeting images ... this includes good as well as bad memories ...

There is no point in keeping memories alive just for sake of having them ....if they are strong enough ...they will survive travails of time . Besides painful memories can obstruct the path of healing and reconciliation ...

while memories tie one to the past ...question is whether you want to live in past or move on to the future ...

Memories serve us reminder of how we failed or succeeded ...a lesson we can take in our strides to do better in future .

In that sense - we still can course correct the present ...based on those memories of past ..

Things are changing in Kashmir ...and hopefully we will not abdicate our responsibility in ensuring the reconciliation there .

 

[doppelganger]

@Indo-guy

Problem here is that there are no memories. That's exactly the problem.

Where there are no memories, there is amnesia. Where there is amnesia, wrongs never get righted. Victims never get justice. Culprits never get punished.

This amnesia is not natural. It is the amnesia of events shoved under the carpet, under-reported, hushed up, struck from "official" sanctioned channels.

 

[Indo-guy]

@Indo-guy

Problem here is that there are no memories. That's exactly the problem.

Where there are no memories, there is amnesia. Where there is amnesia, wrongs never get righted. Victims never get justice. Culprits never get punished.

This amnesia is not natural. It is the amnesia of events shoved under the carpet, under-reported, hushed up, struck from "official" sanctioned channels.

You are seeking larger proportion of space for this because you deeply feel about it .

I personally do not think that there is no memory at all ...or the memories have been deliberately wiped off ...

Frankly speaking - part of the reconciliation and moving on can be by moving on and forgetting ' bad memories '

Clinging on and on to those memories may just add to one's suffering .

I think that's the natural course . I do not think that the TRP obsessed Indian media can be silenced or hushed up ...

Or else there would not have been public debate video - one with which I started this very thread .

The very fact that we and our generation ( many of which were not even born in that period ) are debating this issue is testimonial of the fact that the issue is alive in our memories - a quarter centuries later .

Sometimes some issues are so close to our hearts that we really can't see them in true perspective ...

Our emotional bond can become our impediments in understanding of truth .