25 Years of Exile of Kashmiri Pandit : What happened on January 19, 1990 ?

[SarthakGanguly]

Means, Is hamam me sab Nange hai.

Yeah - in Kashmir... Congress, BJP are almost the same. Except that BJP still remains more sympathetic to non Muslims. Reason why it is so hated in the valley.

 

[Indo-guy]

@SarthakGanguly

Though I am Congressi, But I was sure that Modi will remove Article 370, but he also backtracked. What may be the reason.

Modi needs to consolidate his power yet .

He will go for hard questions once he has consolidated his power by 2016 .
He will tackle article 370 when he has enough power in J & K state assembly and rahjya sabha .

Mind you getting rid of article 370 is not as easy as it seems .

There is potential of big setback that can follow after article 370 is scrapped .

we can potentially lose the game in Kashmir that we are winning .

scrapping article 370 is like kicking hornet's nest - and that can't be Modi's priority .

 

[doppelganger]

Article 370 can be gotten rid of by dissolving the assembly and rewriting the constitution.

It requires political will. We have the guns.

 

[Indo-guy]

All sikhs did not do it. But many did.

This is not justification for the killing of innocents. But statement of fact.

Similarly in Gujarat all muslims did not burn to death hindu pilgrims. But some did.

This again is not justification for the killing of innocents. But statement of fact.

Now lets see. What did the hindu pandits in Kashmir do? Even one of them?

You can NEVER NEVER NEVER equate two evils .

I think this line of reasoning will take us nowhere .

what is your point in comparing 1984 riots, 2002 riots and what happened in 1990 .

These are all great tragedy that our nation has suffered . and that's it .

we do not have to crown any single tragedy as against others .

 

[magudi]

Article 370 can be gotten rid of by dissolving the assembly and rewriting the constitution.

It requires political will. We have the guns.

Executive order from the president can't do it

Anyways i don't think NDA have the guts for it, maybe we might see a discussion of some sorts on the issue but that's about it.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Modi needs to consolidate his power yet .

He will go for hard questions once he has consolidated his power by 2016 .
He will tackle article 370 when he has enough power in J & K state assembly and rahjya sabha .

Mind you getting rid of article 370 is not as easy as it seems .

There is potential of big setback that can follow after article 370 is scrapped .

we can potentially lose the game in Kashmir that we are winning .

scrapping article 370 is like kicking hornet's nest - and that can't be Modi's priority .

Actually you are correct on this. At least I hope you are. Most Pandits also believed that 370 was good for them. We are ultra racists. Trust me on that. Ask any Dogra(folks in Jammu) - Kashmiris, both Hindu and Muslim are racists and far toooo proud of their racial character. Now things have changed for the hindus slightly.

But actually if 370 is gone, there is going to be a major disturbance. But the thing is we are not avoiding the problem. We are just postponing it. It is actually unfair for a part to be so special so as to have a Ranvir code (we have different set of laws) including seperate citizenship laws!!!

 

[Indo-guy]

Article 370 can be gotten rid of by dissolving the assembly and rewriting the constitution.

It requires political will. We have the guns.

That is very naïve of you to say so .

Your last statement itself speaks volumes about that .

We have guns ???

what does that even means .

This is not just about dissolving assembly , rewriting constitution or enforcing martial law or crackdown .

this has great potential to disturb the whole nation and spread anarchy .

the questions as complicated as article 370 are to be resolved with due care and diligence .

 

[SarthakGanguly]

You can NEVER NEVER NEVER equate two evils .

I think this line of reasoning will take us nowhere .

what is your point in comparing 1984 riots, 2002 riots and what happened in 1990 .

These are all great tragedy that our nation has suffered . and that's it .

we do not have to crown any single tragedy as against others .

Confident that he was not trying to equate.

I agree with the point. Aggreived parties often retaliate. Pandits have not. Except the books published...

questions as complicated as article 370 are to be resolved with due care and diligence

The questions are very simple, and so are the answers. The anxiety around the issue is what is complicated. The issue is very simple. That is JnK is NOT an integral part of India yet, regardless how many times Indian Central Govt says so. It has been eroded in practise but in theory, we are first citizens of JnK and then of India. It's a harsh truth but that's how it is.

 

[Indo-guy]

Actually you are correct on this. At least I hope you are. Most Pandits also believed that 370 was good for them. We are ultra racists. Trust me on that. Ask any Dogra(folks in Jammu) - Kashmiris, both Hindu and Muslim are racists and far toooo proud of their racial character. Now things have changed for the hindus slightly.

But actually if 370 is gone, there is going to be a major disturbance. But the thing is we are not avoiding the problem. We are just postponing it. It is actually unfair for a part to be so special so as to have a Ranvir code (we have different set of laws) including seperate citizenship laws!!!

Indeed great distances are best covered in multiple short journeys .

politics of J & K revolves around article 370 . there will be reprisals if article 370 in scrapped . so we must anticipate what can happen and make enough grounds to counter that .

Problems like article 370 will have to be solved .we can't just go on postponing them- less they become unsolvable after protracted time .

Today we know how much support the article 370 receives in J & K . so we have to wean off people from that support .

there is possibility that we may aide secessionist movement and Pakistan by scrapping article 370 - if we are not fully equipped to deal with consequences .

 

[doppelganger]

My point is, how often have you seen tears shed for the pandits who were butchered.

How many Arnob Goswami talkshows/shouting matches?

How many bleeding heart NGOs and secularists crying buckets of tears?

How many Arundhati Roys?

How many editorials?

How many books and court trials and commissions set up?

How many convictions?

How many processions and marches and candle vigils and chest beatings in public?

How many killed of the opposing faith in retaliation during and after the pogrom?

YOU ARE DAMN RIGHT WE WILL EQUATE!!!!

 

[13 kumaon]

Its a shame that such a peaceful community had to leave their homeland and living like refugees ,we need parshuram Brahmins in valley.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Article 370 can be gotten rid of by dissolving the assembly and rewriting the constitution.

It requires political will. We have the guns.

I am pretty rabid when it comes to this. But not like the guys at Panun Kashmir. That's an org that demands a separate state for Kashmiri Pandits IN THE VALLEY. Aditya Raj Kaul pretty much heads it.

I don't beleive in any peaceful solution to the problem. Whether there will ever be a solution is another matter.The army has done a splendid job. They have eliminated close to (my estimates - killed/captured/defected/etc) 50000 young men and women of the valley. That was what broke the back of the insurgency. And the fence. The insurgency was never strong in South Kashmir, that's where the VDCs are. So anyway, the most fanatic of the lot were just neutralized. The sentiment not only remains but also thrives in Srinagar, Sopore, Ganderbal. Only they are not prepared to take to guns.

Its a shame that such a peaceful community had to leave their homeland and living like refugees ,we need parshuram Brahmins in valley.

I was bashed by Rahul Pandita for saying pretty much the same thing at a convention.

there is possibility that we may aide secessionist movement and Pakistan by scrapping article 370 - if we are not fully equipped to deal with consequences

Interesting thing is secessionist activity will be non existant once 370 is not there. For example, if -
i. India was a Muslim majority country, they would not cry for 370.
ii.Kashmir was Hindu majority, they would not cry for 370

Removing 370 gives the Srinagar KMs an illusion that they are directly ruled by the Kufr law. I don't see ANY chance, they might be persuaded to change this stance. Without state sanctioned aggressive 'ghar wapsis' that is.

 

[Indo-guy]

My point is, how often have you seen tears shed for the pandits who were butchered.

How many Arnob Goswami talkshows/shouting matches?

How many bleeding heart NGOs and secularists crying buckets of tears?

How many Arundhati Roys?

How many editorials?

How many books and court trials and commissions set up?

How many convictions?

How many processions and marches and candle vigils and chest beatings in public?

How many killed of the opposing faith in retaliation during and after the pogrom?

YOU ARE DAMN RIGHT WE WILL EQUATE!!!!

so if there have been lots of editorials , books , talk shows , debates , processions , marches , retaliations ....will that lessen pain of those who suffered ?

We need to acknowledge our failure in safeguarding the Kashmiri pandit community .

they have been living in exile in their own country for a quarter century .

this is a matter of great shame for all of us .

as much we need to be ashamed of ourselves for 1984, 1992 , 2002 and all those communal riots and all other man made disasters .

But at the same time we need stop instigating people . what you are doing will not heal minds but will still inflame their souls .

 

[13 kumaon]

I am pretty rabid when it comes to this. But not like the guys at Panun Kashmir. That's an org that demands a separate state for Kashmiri Pandits IN THE VALLEY. Aditya Raj Kaul pretty much heads it.

I don't beleive in any peaceful solution to the problem. Whether there will ever be a solution is another matter.The army has done a splendid job. They have eliminated close to (my estimates - killed/captured/defected/etc) 50000 young men and women of the valley. That was what broke the back of the insurgency. And the fence. The insurgency was never strong in South Kashmir, that's where the VDCs are. So anyway, the most fanatic of the lot were just neutralized. The sentiment not only remains but also thrives in Srinagar, Sopore, Ganderbal. Only they are not prepared to take to guns.


I was bashed by Rahul Pandita for saying pretty much the same thing at a convention.

Bro clowns like Rahul pandita would not have gone unbeaten if he said that in U.P or even Bihar.See most of weapons licence in U.P are issued by Brahmins followed by yadavs and thakurs although they are only 12% in here.

 

[Indo-guy]

Interesting thing is secessionist activity will be non existant once 370 is not there. For example, if -
i. India was a Muslim majority country, they would not cry for 370.
ii.Kashmir was Hindu majority, they would not cry for 370

Removing 370 gives the Srinagar KMs an illusion that they are directly ruled by the Kufr law. I don't see ANY chance, they might be persuaded to change this stance. Without state sanctioned aggressive 'ghar wapsis' that is.

You are talking about post article 370 situation .

I am worried about the immediate impact it can create .

If Kashmir survives the onslaught that will follow scrapping of article 370 then you will be vindicated . because it will leverage all the sectarian majority that exists with free flow immigration and socio-economic mixing .

But for that to happen Kashmir has to survive the aftermath of article 370 situation . Mind you the extremist elements and Pakistan will fully exploit the instability that will follow .