[1973-2015] How Vietnamese and American passed over the past ( Vietnam War)?

[BoQ77]

Times Square, 1972.
There are American people that I don't hesitate to say "I love them" at any time, during peace or wartime.

Christmas Bombings 1972
By Susan Schnall

Susan Schnall.

On Sunday, March 17, 2013 CBS aired an episode of Amazing Race where contestants were traipsing through the remnants of American B-52 bomber shot down by the Vietnamese during the Christmas Bombing in 1972. Known as the Stratofortress heavy bombers, the B-52's along with Marine tactical support aircraft, dropped over 20,000 tons of bombs, destroying Hanoi and Haiphong, including Bach Mai Hospital. From December 18, 1972 until December 29, 1972, 729 sorties killed over 1600 Vietnamese and knocked out 80% of the country's electrical supply. And what was the military gain? Why did President Richard Nixon order this reign of terror on a country and its people thousands of miles from the United States? What was the threat posed to the people of the United States by the Vietnamese? Or was this action part of the American political process, a desperate effort by the President taken before the incoming Congress would meet and deny continued funding for this unpopular war in southeast Asia?

Response to the Christmas Bombing in the United States was anger and outrage against the bombings and President Nixon who had declared: "Peace is at hand." On December 21st, 1972, I was part of the group, Medical Aid for Indochina (MAI), gathered in front of the Army Recruiting Station in Times Square, New York City. Medical Aid for Indochina was an organization that raised money to purchase medical supplies for the civilian medical facilities in North Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, and south Vietnam under control of the Provisional Revolutionary Government. MAI carried out its work in cooperation with medical aid groups engaged in relief work in Indochina. We believed that we had to accept responsibility for our government's actions, to say loud and clear that the people of Indochina were not our enemies, and to demand withdrawal of all US forces and weapons from Southeast Asia.

Getting arrested in Times Square, 1972.
We were part of the thousands of demonstrators peacefully gathered in Times Square until the NY police formed a line with raised batons and began hitting the demonstrators. We sang "Give peace a chance" as the police struck out at those of us in the front. We asked them to stop as we got caught between the crowd behind and the police contingent in front of us. I remember the bright, garish lights of Times Square, the Marlboro man blowing smoke rings into the dark night and images of the US bombs falling on the civilian population in Vietnam, people screaming as they ran from this rain from hell which merged in my mind. And then I was grabbed, hit, pulled and dragged by several police to a waiting squad car and shoved inside. In handcuffs, lying on the back seat, I felt one of the officers straddling my back as he pulled my hair and yanked my head up and down, slamming my face against the car floor. Once again, I saw Vietnamese people running and screaming as the US planes rained down death and destruction, babies dying in their mother's arms, buildings smashed and burning, bodies filled with shrapnel and felt impotent about stopping this madness my government was doing in my name in Vietnam.

When the car stopped, I was pulled out by my hair, once again dragged by my hair up the steps to the station house and booked for assault, resisting arrest, and obstructing the police. As a prisoner held overnight, I was strip searched, made to shower in front of the officers, made to squat nude, searched for contraband, and placed in a solitary cell with a cement bunk.

And the American planes continued to drop bomb after bomb, day after day, night after night and for what? To show that the United States of America could destroy a land and a people struggling for their independence that didn't have approval from the mightiest country on earth?

There has been a very righteous vocal response from VFW and VVA in response to the Amazing Race episode in Hanoi, talking about American sacrifice and the deaths of American pilots represented by the display of the B-52. CBS has apologized to "veterans, particularly those who served in Vietnam...and any others who were offended by the broadcast." Where is the American voice that decries the terrible violence against the Vietnamese caused by these weapons of war? Where is our outrage about the destructive use of the B-52's against Vietnam? Where is the apology from CBS to the Vietnamese for being insensitive to the costs of the American conflict in Vietnam, acknowledging the B-52 bomber as an instrument of destruction that caused the deaths of over 1600 Vietnamese during the 1972 Christmas bombings?

Susan Schnall is a co-coordinator of the Vietnam Agent Orange Relief and Responsibility Campaign. She is currently a professor in Health Policy and Planning at NYU and a member of VFP and APHA. She is on the VVAW Board. In 1969 she was tried and convicted by a general court martial for her anti-war activities while a member of the US Navy.

 

[BoQ77]

William Calley, the former Army lieutenant convicted on 22 counts of murder in the infamous My Lai Massacre in Vietnam, publicly apologized for the first time this week while speaking in Columbus.

“There is not a day that goes by that I do not feel remorse for what happened that day in My Lai,” Calley told members of the Kiwanis Club of Greater Columbus on Wednesday. His voice started to break when he added, “I feel remorse for the Vietnamese who were killed, for their families, for the American soldiers involved and their families. I am very sorry.”


Read more here: William Calley apologizes for My Lai massacre | Army Life | Columbus Ledger Enquirer

 

[BoQ77]

USAID Assistant Administrator for Asia Jon Stivers today signed a statement of cooperation between USAID - US Agency for International Development and the Vietnam Academy of Science and Technology (VAST). This established a framework for USAID and VAST to start scientific and technological cooperation, which was highlighted in the joint statement on the Comprehensive Partnership agreed by the United States and Vietnam in 2013.

 

[BoQ77]

U.S. Embassy in Hanoi
March 26 ·
This week the United States and Vietnam are conducting humanitarian assistance operations, as part of Pacific Angel 2015 program. Our military service members are working together, in partnership with local non-governmental organizations, to provide humanitarian assistance to the residents of Quang Ngai Province. The exercise enhances Vietnam’s humanitarian assistance and disaster relief capabilities. Military and civilian medical professionals are providing general health, dental, optometry, and physical therapy services, as well as structural, plumbing, and electrical engineering assistance to the people of Quang Ngai. This program is one of many that highlights the commitment to deepening our relationship over the long-term. @KAL-EL @SvenSvensonov : I saw US Airforce here

Trong khuôn khổ Chương trình này, sẽ diễn ra Hội thảo chuyên đề trao đổi chuyên môn về các vấn đề sức khỏe; giao lưu, trao đổi kinh nghiệm về vận hành máy bay giữa phi hành đoàn của chiếc máy bay vận tải quân sự C130 với không quân Việt Nam tại Đà Nẵng.

There's exchange the experience between two air forces about C-130 operations.
Btw, Vietnam ever operated C-130 after Vietnam War

 

[liubang]

These things are very good news. But in honesty, I saw a few comments every week from Americans who regret that they didn't nuke Vietnam. The wound of Vietnam only heal once these folks die off (of old age).

 

[BoQ77]

These things are very good news. But in honesty, I saw a few comments every week from Americans who regret that they didn't nuke Vietnam. The wound of Vietnam only heal once these folks die off (of old age).

A few mean nothing.

 

[liubang]

A few mean nothing.

It meant everything. If you are doing a poll on vietnam facts such as why vietnam war started?? Why is the USA involved in Vietnam?? And facts about the South Vietnam regime? How did the South Vietnam came to creation? The fact is most will failed those basic information that had been declassified in years. I meant after all the evidences came out of the Iraq war, people still believe Saddam Hussein was behind 9/11 or have WMD. Or how the middle easterners are a bunch of backward people (like that really matter and should be solve by war). If you look at it that way, there aren't a few. There are whole bunch of people who have collective amnesia. Even on My Lai, remorse?? sure. Guilt?? no, cuzz I followed orders.

Like nowsadays, people just learned about the Hue massacre. Does they care about the victims? No. Does they care that it should be a topic that talk about in prevention more of those thing? No. Do they care about the justice of victims of war in these specific instances? No. What they care begin and ended with hey hey look at Hue Massacre, shit happened in war, let not talk about My Lai, let stop demonized America because we are the good guys (always) and a force for justice across the world).

Until the population is informed and honest, then their goodwill should be taken with even greater degree of appreciation. Because without it, then these goodwill feel like a white man's burden just as it was the white man's burden to help these backward Viet out.

 

[BoQ77]

It meant everything. If you are doing a poll on vietnam facts such as why vietnam war started?? Why is the USA involved in Vietnam?? And facts about the South Vietnam regime? How did the South Vietnam came to creation? The fact is most will failed those basic information that had been declassified in years. I meant after all the evidences came out of the Iraq war, people still believe Saddam Hussein was behind 9/11 or have WMD. Or how the middle easterners are a bunch of backward people (like that really matter and should be solve by war). If you look at it that way, there aren't a few. There are whole bunch of people who have collective amnesia. Even on My Lai, remorse?? sure. Guilt?? no, cuzz I followed orders.

Like nowsadays, people just learned about the Hue massacre. Does they care about the victims? No. Does they care that it should be a topic that talk about in prevention more of those thing? No. Do they care about the justice of victims of war in these specific instances? No. What they care begin and ended with hey hey look at Hue Massacre, shit happened in war, let not talk about My Lai, let stop demonized America because we are the good guys (always) and a force for justice across the world).

Until the population is informed and honest, then their goodwill should be taken with even greater degree of appreciation. Because without it, then these goodwill feel like a white man's burden just as it was the white man's burden to help these backward Viet out.

I think you are derailing the subject.
this is a long way to amend everything, of both side, and you are talking about someone who doesn't care, doesn't have in mind of amended thing.

 

[liubang]

I think you are derailing the subject.
this is a long way to amend everything, of both side, and you are talking about someone who doesn't care, doesn't have in mind of amended thing.

Derailing how?? It is perfectly fit in this subject. Let look at Iraq, so so so many people made the comment, "let leave them alone and let them kill each others." What you show is not Americans passed over Vietnam War, but rather younger people who don't know history and don't hate these people because they weren't war with them. But most of those in that era still bitter as hell. Even among those who born after the war, ask them if Americans were the good guy in all of this. They still think so. It is the Vietnamese people that passed over this. They accepted it. They move on. And they are happy that situation are better.

Who were the good guys in Vietnam? - Historum - History Forums

For example this, 50% of the people participate in that who were Americans thought they were the good guy.

Or popular books like this. There are a movie coming out about re education camp in Vietnam, and Americans are interested in it because reconfirmed that they were the good guys all along. For you who don't live in the USA, don't know that there are a huge percentage that think like that, another huge percentage just ignorant. And of course there are altruistic good folks. You have a narrative, and I don't agree with it as an AMERICAN.

Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: The Politically Incorrect Guide to the Vietnam War (The Politically Incorrect Guides)

 

[LacViet]

These things are very good news. But in honesty, I saw a few comments every week from Americans who regret that they didn't nuke Vietnam. The wound of Vietnam only heal once these folks die off (of old age).

when you have time here, you can know that many Chinese members on this forum said that, China will nuke Vietnam and could invaded in to Hanoi in 2 hour.

I think Vietnamese don't has too much illusion about USA, but in this moment good relation with US is better for Vietnam.

 

[liubang]

when you have time here, you can know that many Chinese members on this forum said that, China will nuke Vietnam and could invaded in to Hanoi in 2 hour.

I think Vietnamese don't has too much illusion about USA, but in this moment good relation with US is better for Vietnam.

I agree with your second statement. Your first statement is precisely wise, only Vietnamese know what best for Vietnamese. Be friendly with all, but when it come down to it, we have to supposed ourselves. I wished there weren't so much divided among the oversea viet and the native viet. We need to come together to better our root.

 

[LacViet]

I agree with your second statement. Your first statement is precisely wise, only Vietnamese know what best for Vietnamese. Be friendly with all, but when it come down to it, we have to supposed ourselves. I wished there weren't so much divided among the oversea viet and the native viet. We need to come together to better our root.

I think no Vietnamese has a discrimination feeling to oversea Vietnamese now, the most my closed relatives are living in Cali. younger brother of my opa from north went to South in 1954, is joined to Saigon army, he said that he didn't like communists. This is our bitter history.

 

[BoQ77]

@liubang: from killing each other to cooperate in business, military, security, maritime security,
from spread Agent Orange, bomb and mines ... to cooperate in removal of those.

I think that's the ongoing way they lean to each other. Am I wrong?
@SvenSvensonov

 

[liubang]

@liubang: from killing each other to cooperate in business, military, security, maritime security,
from spread Agent Orange, bomb and mines ... to cooperate in removal of those.[/USER]

Had America apologize for that war? Maritime security? Already they are saying shit about Russian using Cam Ranh Bay. And as far as the American people goes, quite a large percent want to do interfere with the domestic politics via this maritime security. Whatever it is, America is look at us as a chess piece on a board, an inconvenient to China.

Monsanto definitely doing business in Vietnam. Has it apologized for Agent Orange? I told you a few these jack *** going to Vietnam doing "charity" and was well received by the people there but concluded vietnam is a shithole.

For example something like this, "in a November 2004 Zogby International poll of 987 people, 79% of respondents thought the U.S. chemical companies which produced Agent Orange defoliant should compensate U.S. soldiers who were affected by the toxic chemical used during the war in Vietnam. Also, 51% said they supported compensation for Vietnamese Agent Orange victims." What sup with the 49%? 49% is not a few.

Sure, we should take what ever the American offer in term of help with Agent Orange and what not. But that is a crime they had to amend and frankly they haven't done enough. Sometimes, I wonder if we aren't a nuisance to China would America even bother. John McCain, a friend?? Even when he was running for president he still used racial slurs when talking about the vietnamese. Has the backlash as strong as if he was using the word, "nigger"?? Nope that is how much they care. Sometimes, on the news, they making false equivalent between ISIS/ISIL with vietcong. It like they learn nothing. Vietcong comparable to ISIS. Just another example of them trying to subtly rewrite history so they came out as the GOOD guy.

But that is America, we are not as uniformed like China or Japan or Vietnam or etc, 50% of the Americans if brought to the attention of Agent Orange they willing to help without ANY string attached.

-----------------------------------

But to the Chinese guy that thumb me up (I am sure not for a reason that I wanted). America will try to get close to Vietnam. We, Americans, can't stand to not be on top. And I would prefer that we are on top. We will build up relationship to Vietnam as we are to India and other ASEAN. Hopefully men like Kissinger die off already. Nixon shook hand with the chinese still piss me off to no end. 4 million deaths to prevent communist only to sleep with another communist. But it was a necessary move to poke Soviet Union in the eye. However, China has now on par Russia in the eyes of America in term of threats.

U.S. Should 'Remove Urgency' on South China Sea, Kissinger Says

I am more hopeful about India and Japan. And I pray that Vietnam-Australia relationship will upgrade as well. Do you noticed the different?? Japan, India, they don't made unreasonable demands for friendship.

 

[BoQ77]

You expect too much.

Enemy > Former Enemy > unopposed partner.

I didn't say that US at the same partnership level that Vietnam reached with Russian.