1971 War: How Russia sank Nixon’s gunboat diplomacy

[I spikes therefore I am]

Were not talking about conquering all of India, Just Kashmir, Aksai Chin, and South Tibet. if pakistan entered the war at the time India would have lost, Today it's much different.

I think ur firing and wiring systems collapsed in ur brain.

 

[NeutralCitizen]

Noting much to offer ?

 

[cyphercide]

No if Pakistan entered the war against India it would be natural for them to ally themselves with China, certainly Pakistan would not have been fighting in Askai however India could not have won a two sided war. Actually they would have taken care of India in the Western Theater, It would Paks right chance to strike during 1962. they were in talks during the war , but again it was a real possibility you could not have won a two sided war. If Pakistan entered the war it would have been natural they would ally themselves with China, China Takes Askai, and South Tibet Pakistan takes Kashmir, India at that point could not have won a two sided war one in the mountains in askai and one in kashmir.

How many times will bring up the same assumption? Same ol' Nazi theorem of "If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth" eh.

China wouldn't side with Pakistan simply because it wasn't worth the international attention.

Pakistan having border issues with China themselves wouldn't have sided with China.The Arab nations favoring India on the issue was an another powerful motivation.

PS# Winston Churchill was a jackass.Manuscripts long before,including Arab and Chinese ones denote the unified Indian nation even preceding the age when he was born.

 

[NeutralCitizen]

How many times will bring up the same assumption? Same ol' Nazi theorem of "If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth" eh.

China wouldn't side with Pakistan simply because it wasn't worth the international attention.

Pakistan having border issues with China themselves wouldn't have sided with China.The Arab nations favoring India on the issue was an another powerful motivation.

PS# Winston Churchill was a jackass.Manuscripts long before,including Arab and Chinese ones denote the unified Indian nation even preceding the age when he was born.

And you still claim India could have won a two sided war ? very naive, at that time International attention wasn't that much, India tried to get the USA and plenty of other powers to try and condemn China however it failed.

Arab nations favoring India still failed

Finally the Winston Churchill thing is a topic for another time.

 

[cyphercide]

And you still claim India could have won a two sided war ? very naive, at that time International attention wasn't that much, India tried to get the USA and plenty of other powers to try and condemn China however it failed.

Arab nations favoring India still failed

Finally the Winston Churchill thing is a topic for another time.

Yup...India would have used it's death ray supplied by the intergalactic confederation....just in case.Care to prove me wrong?It's the same case argued by you if you bothered to realize that German Shepaird.

BTW, Winston Churchill vociferously favored gassing Germany....Thought you might like facts.

 

[aziqbal]

Atleast they supported in the time of need! They were not as useless as US or China for Pakistan. I see many Pakistanis are happy with China's military might and they are dreaming that China will come to its rescue with all out war... But why should China make that stupid move to please their less capable all-weathered friend.

China did not come to this place by some luck... They reached this point with very hard work, Will they spoil all this and forget their dreams of super-power just to help the very unstable friend? I sincerely doubt that!

first this article is bogus when it comes to Russian fleet, how can Russia nuclear fleet reach Bay of Bengal from Vladivostock before Americans fleet who need to travel a much shorter Tonkin to Bay of Bengal? unless the Russian fleet has wings and all of a sudden flys down to Bay of Bengal that is not possible

also in 2002 standoff China sent 40 F7PGs fighters to Pakistans within 24 hours, M11 missiles and ammuniation ships were docking at Karachi 2 weeks after the incident

and even until today Pakistan never paid for the 40 F7PG they are in service with PAF

in addition it was after 2002 that JF17 project went into overdrive and the following year JF17 had flown

this is all just Bollywood propoganda and has nothing to do with reality on the ground

 

[lkozhi]

first this article is bogus when it comes to Russian fleet, how can Russia nuclear fleet reach Bay of Bengal from Vladivostock before Americans fleet who need to travel a much shorter Tonkin to Bay of Bengal? unless the Russian fleet has wings and all of a sudden flys down to Bay of Bengal that is not possible

also in 2002 standoff China sent 40 F7PGs fighters to Pakistans within 24 hours, M11 missiles and ammuniation ships were docking at Karachi 2 weeks after the incident

and even until today Pakistan never paid for the 40 F7PG they are in service with PAF

in addition it was after 2002 that JF17 project went into overdrive and the following year JF17 had flown

this is all just Bollywood propoganda and has nothing to do with reality on the ground

In their book "War and Secession", Richard Sisson and Leo Rose state:
"Another important consideration for the US government was the presence of a Soviet naval force in the Indian Ocean. When the war began, the USSR had only a small force on station-two destroyers, two minesweepers, and an oiler. But on 6 December a three-ship Soviet naval force, including a missile cruiser, left Vladivostok, and on 13 December a second task force, consisting of four ships, including a missile cruiser and missile destroyer, was dispatched to the Indian Ocean from Vladivostok-under immediate American surveillance, of course. The first task force entered the Indian Ocean only on 18 December and the second on 24 December, both after the war had ended: thus neither served as a deterrent to the Enterprise during the couple of days Task Force 74 was in the war zone while the war was going on
CHAPTER-9

 

[praveen007]

ok here is actual transcript of the phone conversation of Nixon and Kissinger on phone by a official historian of america.
And it proves all the things which i had posted in my artical part- 1,2,3,4.
.
1:- help by Jordan, turkey, iran, uae, france to pakistan.
2:- how soviet intervantion in war Of 1971 privented usa and chinese intervantion.
3:- and how mutch Nixon and Kissinger hate India.
.
.
1:- Office of the Historian - Historical Documents - Foreign Relations of the United States, 1969
.
2:- Office of the Historian - Historical Documents - Foreign Relations of the United States, 1969

 

[LaBong]

Ok here's the deal guys. The Fleet was moving — not to help the beleaguered Pakistan Eastern Command — it was in readiness to aid its former foe, the People’s Republic of China, the USA’s new ‘best’ friend.

From the early fifties onwards the entire world had been in the grip of the Cold War and the rivalry between the USA and the USSR. However, after the Sino – Soviet border clash in 1969, inter- communist rivalry for spheres of influence was equally intense. If your neighbour is your enemy, then your neighbour’s enemy is your friend.

Since India, a firm ally of Moscow was the aggressor in the Bangladesh War the Chinese naturally supported their ally Pakistan. If the Chinese attacked India in a diversionary move to relieve Pakistan, the Soviet Union would be obliged to come to India’s rescue by attacking China. And the USA? Surprise, surprise — they would join the fray in support of China. Both had a common goal in containing the Soviet Union.

As President, Nixon was now on the brink of a significant policy shift: resumption of ties with the People’s Republic of China. In July 1971, Dr. Kissinger had flown secretly from Islamabad to Peking paving the way for recognition and a State visit to China by the President. General Yahya Khan of Pakistan was instrumental in facilitating contacts and arranging the visit.

As quid pro quo, Nixon was soft on the General and looked the other way during the brutal crackdown in East Pakistan — much against the tide of public opinion in his own country. On a document setting out US policy options in response to the East Pakistan situation in April 1971, Nixon had chosen the mildest course with a scribble at the end: ‘to all hands: Don’t squeeze Yahya at this time’. As Henry Kissinger observed to the US Ambassador to India, ‘the President has a special feeling for President Yahya Khan. One cannot make policy on that basis but it is a fact of life.’


Here is a selective transcript of the conversation between Dr. Henry Kissinger, (HK) and Chou en Lai (PM) Prime Minister of the People’s Republic of China held in the Great Hall of Peking on June 20, 1972. It tells the story of the last days of united Pakistan.

PM: (laughs) so would you like to begin.

HK: Which subject would you like to discuss first? The Soviets?

PM: Yes

HK: …As you know, we reacted extremely strongly to the situation in South Asia. And one morning when we received a message that you had a message to deliver to us, which was, we thought that you had sent your troops in, we had decided that if you were attacked by the Soviet Union as a result of it we would support you and the military measures if necessary to prevent that attack. We received that message in early December—I thought it was December 11 our time in the morning. We received word. And when we picked up that message in the afternoon, it had a different context. We also, as you remember threatened to…

PM: By that time, East Pakistan was unable to be saved

HK: No No, you made the correct decision. It would have been too late, but I had a talk with your Ambassador.

PM: Because when they were in the UN at that time, they were not clear about the situation because Mr. Bhutto himself was not a military man and Yahya Khan had boasted about the military situation. So I believe Mr. Bhutto on the 11th thought that the military situation in Pakistan at that time was indeed very well. He didn’t know about the coup at home.

HK: I think it was the December 11. Bhutto arrived in New York on Friday the 10th our time, 11th your time. I met Huang Ha (Chinese Ambassador) on the 10th, I first met Huang Ha on the evening of Friday the 10th and then I met Huang Ha on the morning of the 11th…and then you sent a message, which we received. You called us in the morning of the 12th and we were going to the meeting with Pompidou so we sent General Haig. But between the time, we got the phone call and picked up the message we didn’t know what it was. And since Huang Ha had taken a very tough line, not knowing the situation I thought your message to us was that you were taking military measures. And since we were going to the Azores before we met with you we had to give instructions. If your message was, you were taking military measures, our instructions were that if the Soviet Union moved against you we would move against the Soviet Union.

PM …Why did the newspapers publish what had been discussed step by step in the Washington Special Actions group with respect to the East Pakistan situation?

HK: Well first, the PM has to understand that the Washington Special group implements decisions, it does not make decisions. The reason I had to take such a strong stand in this group was because the vast majority of our bureaucracy was pro- India and Pro- Soviet.

PM: Pro-Soviet?

HK: More Pro- Soviet than Pro- Chinese. I came under the most violent attack. I threatened to cancel the Moscow Summit…but what happened is that a disloyal member of our bureaucracy gave these documents to newspapers and they printed them in order to destroy us and they came very close. They will not be given a second opportunity.

PM: But after reading the records that were published, it seemed to me that the members of that group came from quite a lot of quarters.

HK: Yes, they were almost unanimously against our policy.

PM: Especially toward India?

HK: They didn’t understand our overall strategy. If they had understood we were getting ready to take on the Soviet Union then what happened was mild compared to what would have happened. The reason we moved our Fleet into the Indian Ocean was not because of India primarily –it was as pressure on the Soviet Union if the Soviets did what I mentioned before.

PM: And they also closely followed you down into the Indian Ocean.

HK: Yes but what they had we could have taken care of very easily.

PM: What they were trying to do was to create more noise in East Bengal. They openly passed through the Tsushima straits and then through the Malacca Straits.

HK: Yes but not with a force that could fight ours.

PM: Yes, but you know they could surface in such a way their support to East Bengal.

HK: Oh yes, it was used for that purpose. Actually, the Pakistan Army in the East surrendered 5 days later, so it would have been too late for you to do anything.

PM: Also Yahya Khan had sent his order in preparation for such a measure on the 11th or the 12th.

Vice Foreign Minister Ch’iao: I would like to add a word. On the morning of Friday the 10th, the Secretary General of the United Nations, Mr. U. Thant had already informed us that East Pakistan had informed their secretariat through their personnel in East Pakistan…

HK: Oh yes, the Vice Foreign Minister is absolutely correct. Speaking very confidentially, we urged them not to do so until we had an opportunity to talk to you and to assess the situation and I believe your advice was the same.

Vice Foreign Minister Ch’ iao: This happened the day Mr. Bhutto arrived in New York and on his arrival, I told him this news. He had originally prepared to meet U Thant but we had a luncheon engagement with U Thant so we went but Mr. Bhutto upon going to the Hotel immediately called Yahya Khan and advised him not to do so. That happened on the day of his arrival to New York.

PM: But we must say Yahya Khan made his efforts and contributions towards our countries and we still mention this when we see him. But he was a General who did not know how to fight a war. He was not only useless in war but he did things that worsened the situation. This was something we had not expected. We had expected that he would not be able to improve the situation but we didn’t know he could have done things so badly. Because he had four divisions that had not been thrown into battle, but before any fighting they began to crumble. Actually according to our knowledge, the Armed Forces were able to fight in a battle.

HK: But he scattered them around the frontier –he put too many forces in East Pakistan. They would have done him more good if he had used them in West Pakistan in an offensive. Secondly, he should have ignored the Indians and concentrated on one place and tried to defeat them somewhere.

PM: On such things, Ayub Khan was more capable than Yahya Khan.

HK: Yahya Khan was a decent man but not very intelligent and as it turned out not a very good general. And we are grateful to him on our side for having arranged our contacts. I think it was the last joy on his public career – he loved secret missions. He worked on it with great passion. When I visited him before I came here, he was beside himself with conspiratorial manoeuvres. He also gave me great advice on how to deal with the Prime Minister , all of which turned to be wrong. (Prime Minister laughs)


Why The Seventh Fleet was sent to the Indian Ocean in 1971… | Pak Tea House

 

[aziqbal]

just a few surface

In their book "War and Secession", Richard Sisson and Leo Rose state:
"Another important consideration for the US government was the presence of a Soviet naval force in the Indian Ocean. When the war began, the USSR had only a small force on station-two destroyers, two minesweepers, and an oiler. But on 6 December a three-ship Soviet naval force, including a missile cruiser, left Vladivostok, and on 13 December a second task force, consisting of four ships, including a missile cruiser and missile destroyer, was dispatched to the Indian Ocean from Vladivostok-under immediate American surveillance, of course. The first task force entered the Indian Ocean only on 18 December and the second on 24 December, both after the war had ended: thus neither served as a deterrent to the Enterprise during the couple of days Task Force 74 was in the war zone while the war was going on
CHAPTER-9

exactly, u just conformed that the Soviet fleet did not encounter the US fleet

this also proves that Soviets had very little in the way of a surface fleet

and lastly that US was in the war zone prior to Soviets, so u just contradicted ur first post

 

[ARSENAL6]

Mother Russia

yeah you keep dreaming when the soviets come and force a policy of no religion in INdia, I wonder and see how many Hindu freedom fighters will pop-up ? or should I say terrorists...of course from the Soviets point of view.

 

[suryakiran]

Few months back there was news tht indian govt during 62 offered thousands of sq/km of indian occupied kashmiri territory if Pakistan didnt attack.... but foolish GoP declined!in order to keep the kashmir issue alive...

India was fighting a bigger neighbor for few thousand square kilometers of land, but offered several thousand square kilometers of land to a smaller neighbor for not attacking?

Amazing imagination really...

 

[zer_0]

yeah you keep dreaming when the soviets come and force a policy of no religion in INdia, I wonder and see how many Hindu freedom fighters will pop-up ? or should I say terrorists...of course from the Soviets point of view.

thats impossible dude!!!!

because soviet doesn't exist

 

[Zabaniyah]

Well In the end we could say Pakistan got a few laughs for 1971 when the USSR collapsed and Russia lost alot of land, it's economy, and Military, and population were lost.

A wounded bear licking its wounds can be dangerous.

Just a friendly warning

 

[Zabaniyah]

PART--4
.
Cold Warriors Another telephone conversation between the scheming duo
.
............
reveals a lot about the mindset of those at the highest echelons of American decision making:
.
Kissinger:- And the point you made yesterday, we have to continue to squeeze the Indians even when this thing is settled.
.
Nixon:- We've got to for rehabilitation. I mean, Jesus Christ, they've bombed—I want all the war damage; I want to help Pakistan on the war damage in Karachi and other areas, see?
.
Kissinger:- Yeah
.
Nixon:- I don't want the Indians to be happy. I want a public relations programme developed to piss on the Indians.
.
Kissinger:- Yeah.
.
Nixon:- I want to piss on them for their responsibility. Get a white paper out. Put down, White paper. White paper. Understand that?
.
Kissinger:- Oh, yeah.
.
Nixon:- I don't mean for just your reading. But a white paper on this.
.
Kissinger:- No, no. I know.
.
Nixon:- I want the Indians blamed for this, you know what I mean? We can't let these goddamn, sanctimonious Indians get away with this. They've pissed on us on Vietnam for 5 years, Henry.
.
Kissinger:- Yeah.
.
(The epic quote)Nixon:- Aren't the Indians killing a lot of these people?
.
Kissinger:- Well, we don't know the facts yet. But I'm sure they're not as stupid as the West Pakistanis—they don't let the press in. The idiot Paks have the press all over their place.