What's new

1971 India Pakistan War: Role of Russia, China, America and Britain

Status
Not open for further replies.
The present coalition in India is having DMK as a member. Since the present government came to power in 2003 end the same party DMK has been lending support to it.

As I pointed out earlier the LTTE had been an Indian brainchild. Post -Gandhi assassination there was only one non-coalition government that of PV Narasimha Rao who was more keen on economic liberalisation and also loathe to involve itself in SL as one of the reasons attributed to Rajiv Gandhi's losing elections was the fact that IPKF was seen by majority of Indians as a worthless intervention (again I repeat that since there was no clear mandate either to the army or to public about what the intervention was to achieve the casualties sustained could not be justified). Post Rao government all the governments in India were coalition and short lived and hence none was having either the time or the inclination to indulge in SL affairs as support of pro-LTTE Tamil parties was essential. This allowed the dominance of LTTE over SLA in late 90s and early 2000s as they were being armed and provisioned by both India and other nations based Tamil groups. Officially Indian govt had washed off its hands of the affair. RAW and MI had its interests which were met by insertion of various assets into LTTE. In a significantly small scale the support to SLA was being increased as terrorism in J&K had also made Indian position untenable of supporting LTTE in name of revolution and declaring the Kashmiri groups as terrorists.

Post 9/11 there was tremendous support for Indian position in US and especially post Parliament the protracted deployment of forces along Pakistani border enabled India to achieve the diplomatic coup it wanted. With the changing dynamics involved India could not afford to be seen as supporting LTTE (even non-action was considered a support in the post 9/11 era) and both the Vajpayee and then Manmohan govts had Tamil parties support which was crucial for continuance of government in power (the former had AIADMK and the latter has DMK: both these parties have pro-LTTE elements). So the balance was that publicly India was not involved any further in this issue but through covert actions India along with US aimed to reduce and cut off the economic and logistical support to LTTE and then India started arming SL by giving weaponry (eg Indira Radars for detection of LTTE ACs post their raid on Colombo airfield) and providing real time intelligence by aerial and space based assets. Infact during the final offensives Indian aircrafts gave a 24x7 coverage for Int for advancing SLA troops.

In addition SL was not imposed upon not to seek military hardware from other countries. So there may have been few items purchased by SLA from China as also Pakistan.

Had pakistan intervened in SL you would have seen LTTE being revived and rearmed by Indians. Something akin to what is happening in Tibet.

Ok I got a better picture of the whole thing now. Thanks for taking the time to reply.
 
.
just got this new item .. thought its best to share here then creating a seterate thread..
Soviet satellites spied into Pak during 1971 war

Soviet satellites spied into Pak during 1971 war


Washington—Soviet Union had extensively used satellites to photograph Indian, Pakistani and southern Chinese border during 1971 India Pakistan war, says an US declassified report. Analysis of limited data from 10 orbiting spacecrafts of the Soviets during November 1971 indicated a high level of intelligence collection in the India-Pakistan area. The spacecrafts included three high-resolution photo reconnaissance and seven electronic intelligence satellites.

The data indicated ‘a primary photographic collection effort of airfields in India and Pakistan. Other major military targets were Pakistani Army headquarters at Peshawar and Rawalpindi, Pakistani naval facilities, and an oil refinery and storage facilities at Karachi.

The Soviets also observed the southern Chinese border to include the sub district headquarters at Jihkatse near the Sino-Bhutan border and the Gilgit Road, which crosses the Chinese-Pakistan border through the Khunjerab Pass.—INP
 
. . .
Read this ! Although its a bit long and old but interesting .





Every time I have a conversation with friends and colleagues about India-Pakistan, most of them complain about what they think as India’s failure to teach Pakistan a lasting lesson during the 1971 war.

I often wondered as to why did Indira Gandhi’s government let Pakistan off despite being in a dominant position during the war, which resulted in the creation of Bangladesh. Available archival material suggest international pressure on India was one of the reasons why Prime Minister Gandhi could not take any decisive action against West Pakistan (today’s Pakistan).

A recent blog post by Anuj Dhar revealed damning details of India’s war objectives during the 1971 war. Anuj’s new book, CIA’s eye on South Asia, has a detailed account of what happened in 1971 and why India did not (or could not) take decisive action against West Pakistan. The book compiles declassified CIA records regarding South Asia and also reveals the reason behind the abrupt end of the Bangladesh war. I had downloaded these declassified documents last year but never read them entirely. But after reading Anuj’s blog, I decided to dig into the old records.

The declassification of vital CIA and US State Department documents relating to South Asia reveals that the American spy agency (CIA) had a vital source in Mrs Gandhi’s cabinet. CIA’s ‘reliable source’ leaked India’s war objectives to the US, thereby compromising India’s plan to teach Pakistan a lasting lesson.

The details of Mrs Gandhi’s Cabinet briefings were also known to the CIA within hours. The minutes of the National Security Council meeting in Washington on December 6, 1971 sheds some light on this. The CIA director Richard Helms informed the meeting that: “We have a report which covers Madam Gandhi’s strategy as delivered to her Cabinet at 11 pm on December 3, 1971……The objectives in the west (Pakistan) are to destroy Pakistan’s armour and in the east to totally liberate the area.”

An information cable of the CIA dated December 7, 1971 reveals details of Mrs Gandhi’s briefing to her Cabinet on the India-Pakistan war. The information, attributed to a reliable source, includes India’s war objectives as reiterated by Mrs Gandhi. They were:

The quick liberation of Bangladesh
The incorporation into India of the southern part of Azad Kashmir for strategic rather than territorial reasons (because India has no desire to occupy any West Pakistan territory)
To destroy Pakistani military striking power so that it never attempts to challenge India in the future

The CIA report also added that the Indian Prime Minister had informed her Cabinet that India would not accept any ceasefire till Bangladesh was liberated.

Shuja Nawaz, a Pakistani political and strategic analyst, in his book Crossed Swords: Pakistan, Its Army, and the Wars Within, says: “Mrs Gandhi asked her defence chiefs to be ready to drive into Sialkot and then proceed as deep as possible even upto Rawalpindi with the aim of destroying Pakistan. The CIA managed to get actual minutes of the meeting and passed them to Washington urgently.”

The author, however, does not mention the source of the information he has revealed in his book.

In another disclosure, the CIA director informed the Washington Special Actions Group in a meeting on December 8, 1971 that Mrs Gandhi had told her Cabinet that “she had expected a more balanced view from the Chinese. She expressed the hope that the Chinese would not intervene physically in the north, but said that the Soviets had said the Chinese would be able to ‘rattle the sword.’ She also said that the Soviets have promised to counterbalance any such action.”

The disclosure of India’s war objectives by the mole resulted in an aggressive policy by the US to save West Pakistan from the Indian assault.

In a meeting with the Chinese Permanent Representative to the UN (Ambassador Huang Hua) on December 10, 1971 , Henry Kissinger (President Nixons’s NSA) said, “we have an intelligence report according to which Mrs Gandhi told her cabinet that she wants to destroy the Pakistani army and air force and to annex this part of Kashmir, Azad Kashmir, and then to offer a ceasefire. This is what we believe must be prevented and this is why I have taken the liberty to ask for this meeting with the Ambassador.”

A memorandum (dated December 11, 1971) for President Nixon by Henry Kissinger states: “According to a reliable source Mrs Gandhi’s staff as of Thursday was still saying that, as soon as the situation in the East is settled, India will launch a major offensive against West Pakistan and hope that all major fighting will be over by the end of the month.”

It also goes on to say that D P Dhar , a close confidante of Indira Gandhi and former Ambassador to then USSR, was in Moscow to sound out the Soviets on India’s intentions towards West Pakistan.

The United States administration was absolutely convinced – thanks to the reliable source they had in Prime Minister Gandhi’s Cabinet – that India had offensive plans for West Pakistan. President Nixon, in a telephonic conversation with his National Security Assistant Henry Kissinger on December 8, 1971, said that China could be a decisive factor in restraining the Indian advance.

“The Chinese thing I still think is a card in the hole there. I tell you a movement of even some Chinese toward that border could scare those goddamn Indians to death,” he told Kissinger .

The US even threatened the Soviet Union with a major confrontation if they did not convince India to stop the offensive. In a back channel message to then US Ambassador in Pakistan on December 10, 1971 , Kissinger asks him to tell Pak President Yahya Khan that the US has issued a strong demarche to the Soviets and warned them that the US will not permit any aggression against West Pakistan.

“President added that should Indian offensive be launched in the West, with Soviet acquiescence, a US/Soviet confrontation would ensue,” Kissinger’s message further adds.

There are numerous such details in the declassified documents which clearly point towards the US concern regarding the future of West Pakistan. It would not be too far fetched to say that had the crucial details of India’s war plans remained a secret, the history of South Asia would have been totally different. The US did everything (even supplied arms to Pakistan via Iran, Jordan) to save West Pakistan and they succeeded in the end.

This brings us to the most important question. Who leaked India’s war plans?

Interestingly, India was aware of the presence of a CIA mole who leaked the war plans. This was revealed in a meeting between then Foreign Minister Swaran Singh and top US officials in 1972. In the meeting, which took place on October 5, 1972, Singh told the US officials that Government of India (GOI) had its own sources and knew that CIA has been in contact with people in India in “abnormal ways”.

“GOI had information that proceedings of the Congress Working Committee were known to the US officials within two hours of meetings,” Singh told the US Secretary of State William Rogers.

Various accounts in the media have speculated about different names in the former PM’s Cabinet who might have worked for the CIA.

Jack Anderson, an American investigative journalist, reported about the existence of a CIA mole in the Indira Gandhi cabinet. Anderson got the Pulitzer Prize for national reporting in 1972 for his reports on US’ tilt away from India towards Pakistan during Bangladesh’s war for independence. Details regarding the mole and the information he passed on to the CIA can also be found in The Anderson Papers and The Man who kept the secrets (based on the life of CIA Director Richard Helms – Written by Thomas Powers).

Noted Indian lawyer A G Noorani, in his essay titled The CIA papers, published in the August 11-24, 2007 issue of fortnightly Frontline, states, “the mole in Mrs Gandhi’s Cabinet performed freely for the CIA all through 1971 till he was compromised. She did not sack him, however, ever forgiving of ‘human’ weakness. He survived.”

While referring to the declassified material and the above mentioned books, Noorani further says that the CIA had penetrated the Indian Government at every level. The agency received reports on “troops movements, logistics, strategy, and even some of Prime Minister Indira Gandhi’s secret conversations.”

“Was it not a matter of concern that her anxious queries to the Soviet Ambassador and his replies reached Henry Kissinger’s table while the war was on,” Noorani inquires.

While all the available information points towards a possible mole in Mrs Gandhi’s Cabinet during the 1971 war, we still don’t know his identity. I won’t speculate on the names here but the Indian Government should learn from the US and declassify old records.

Anuj, meanwhile, had filed an RTI application with the Prime Minister’s Office and the Ministry of External Affairs to seek information about the alleged mole in Mrs Gandhi’s Cabinet. But as always, the request has been turned down.

Withholding all the information since independence by giving lame excuses that declassifying it might affect India’s foreign relations with other countries is not acceptable. The nation has a right to know the information surrounding such an important episode.


Did a CIA mole compromise India’s 1971 war plans?
 
.
^^^

@ Karizma

Well the good news is USA will not help Pakistan in 2012 like it did in 1971. The bad news is Pakistan does not have half it's army trapped in a swamp amongst teeming Bangali's.

So why not finish off doing what you failed to do in 1971 because Uncle Sam spoilt the party? Now chances are Uncle SAm might even help you.

So go for it boys !!!
 
.
the Islamic Republic will never be friendly to the enemies
 
. . .
u idiot ur 2800 soldiers + full tank regiment + light weight artillery carrier WITH FULL BATTLE PREPARATION wanted to come to THAR n capture it ..
THey were stopped and demolished and kicked back to their field by 120 patrolling troop soldiers with merely 5 light artillery carrier vehicles UN PREPARED FOR BATTLE .

THEY HOLDED UR MASSIVE TANKS N 2800 SOLDIERS FOR 6 HOURS..

soo DUDE WAKEUP ..

120 NE YE HAAL KIYA TO SOCH 13.5 LACKS ACTIVE +21.42 LACKS RESERVED + 13 LACKS PARAMILITARY =4.9 LACKS SOLDIERS KYA HAAL KARENGE TUMHARAA ..


INDIA ALWAYS BEEN A FRIENDLY STATE .. ITS UU THAT CAN'T BEHAVE WELL.


ABHI BHI SHAK HAI ???


AJAAAAAAAAA



lol. U gullible indians believe the lies of your army. Stil think it was your ground troops who defeated the Pakistan tank battalion. It was only the IAF, your coward soldiers were hiding in their barracks. But yes, IAF two planes attacked and repulsed our battalion and we lost half of the tanks and had to withdraw.
But lets not write stupid fantasies and make fictional movies like border. LOL.
 
.
OOPS I FORGOT TO MENTION 1 MORE THING..

OUR ARMY DINT TELL LIES, BTW IT WAS OVER ENGLISH CHANNEL (WIKIPEDIA)

READ IT ALL..

CHINA'S ROLE, WHICH DINT CAME OUT THAT TIME..



IT WASNT US ,, IT WAS U TO COME INTO OUR LAND , WE JUST KIKED UR BUTT NOTHING ELSE.

6 DAYS BEFORE THAT UR AIRFORCE CAME INTO OUR TERRITORY BOMBING OUR 6 CITIES ,,

LATER WHAT HAPPENED TO UU WE ALL KNOW..

I DONT WANT TO BE ARROGANT AND NOR IAM ANIT PAK ..

I LOVE THAT PLACE AND ALSO GOT DOZEN PAK FRNDS ..

BUT MOST U PEOPLE ARNT TAUGHT WELL IN SCHOOL.




THE BATTLE of Longewala

THE BATTLE of Longewala is part of army folklore. This is a fairy tale of 100 odd soldiers and their steely resolve, which forced an entire Pakistani brigade, backed by an armoured regiment of 45 tanks, to retreat in the 1971 war. This fascinating story was also captured on celluloid in the film ‘Border’, directed by JP Dutta. The battle of Longewala has been told and retold in military journals and is held out as a shining example to students graduating from the military academies. The sheer valour displayed by Major Kuldeep Singh Chandpuri and his alpha team is just an unmatched feat.
Longewala TankBut some war veterans have challenged this story after 37 years. Major General (retd), Atma Singh Hansara, told Hindustan Times in an interview, “I dispute the ground battle completely. It is mockery of army ethos. No ground battle was fought and the army had merely rehearsed it on a sand model after the ceasefire to cover up the incompetence of senior military commanders.”

Air marshal, MS Bawa, who was directly involved in the war, also agrees with Hansara. He says, “This is a challenge. There was no contact between the enemy and the army.” He further said that the Pakistani thrust was blunted entirely by air action alone.
Atma SinghThis controversy made me go through some facts related to the battle. It is very hard for me to believe, as the story of Longewala has motivated several youngsters to join the forces. I tried to read the available journals, articles, magazines and accounts of war heroes to know the truth.
The Air Force War diary says that this turned out to be a clean battle, one of its kinds. This is the most decisive battle fought between Indian Air Force (IAF) and armour. Even Major General, RF Khambatta, GOC, 12 Infantry Division, lends credence to the Air Force’s claim. Pakistan General, Muqeem, in his book ‘Crisis of Leadership in Pakistan’, mentions that large number of vehicles, tanks and guns got bogged in sand. The enemy was the master of skies and destroyed 18 tanks and other vehicles at his leisure. The army documents related to war seems to nail the controversy. It only gives credit to Chanpuri’s men for ‘holding out’ a lonely post. The document says, “ At Longewala that day, IAF added a glorious new chapter. This was the straight battle between the Pakistan armour and IAF hunters. The bulk of Pak armoured regiment was destroyed by air action alone.”
Truth, it is said, is often the first casualty in the war. The controversy has raised several questions that need to be answered. If this is the truth, then why the army is keeping the lie still alive? Is the army taking more credit than it deserves? What incompetence military commanders are trying to hide? If former officers are correct, then what has propelled them to speak now? They should have protested before or even when the film Border was released?
The Indian army has been in news for wrong reasons, and it is time more facts were opened to put an end to this (de)famed battle. But let’s not make any conclusions unless we hear from both the forces. It is better not to conclude with half knowledge. This is something related to the dignified and respected Indian armed forces, and thus, it is in the interest of services that the truth about the Longewala battle be told to the citizens.

Source:india.targetgenx.com/

As I wrote earlier, the truth was that only the IAf played a part in the battle in which they defeated the Pak army battalion who had to withdraw as they could not fight the IAF. There was no Indian soldiers as depicted in the Indian movie 'Border", that is all b.uulshit. So letsw comeback to the reality. It would have been a boring movie to watch without any brave soldiers defeating the enemy, thats why the movie was made.
But a lot of indians as usual were fooled into believing trhe false lies of indian soldiers bravery.

I also have indian friends and I dont hate India but dont like it when truth is not told.
 
.
This is a 1 year old thread.
 
. .
i will appreciate if u read that message again ..

i wrote HOLED FOR 6 HOURS .

READ IT AGAIN U ILLITERATE.

I DINT SAID 120 DEFEATED 2800 NOOB SOLDIERS ...

ACTUALLY THING IS THAT U SEE WHAT U WANT TO SEE , BUT FACTS ARE DIFFERENT .


I DONT THINK SO U KNOW 1% OF 1971.. ALSO I CANT WRITE IT ALL.. BETTER U WATCH SOME YOUTUBE DOCUMENTARY


AND FOR FUTURE BEFORE WRITING AND QUOTING AND MAKING *** OF UR SELF TRY READ THE COMMENT PROPERLY .
ONCE AGAIN. WE HOLD FOR 6 HOURS..


THATS NOT EASY AGAINST 2800 SOLDIERS AND TANK REGIMENTS.

EVEN IF U ARE IN BUNKER ..

BUNKER CANT PROTECT U AGAINST MASSIVE FORCES ,, ITS INDIAN BLOOD AND LOVE FOR COUNTRY AND LAND WHICH CAN


NEVER MIND .. U WONT GET IT

Seriously, learn to master the capslock please.
 
.
and u really dont know whom u talking to son ..
dnt teach comptr or keyboard to me
internet-tough-guy.jpg
 
.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom