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1965 Indo-Pak War: Busting the myth

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Here comes the propaganda whitewashed brain. Since you have been fed this since childhood there is no way to come out of it. It is the ultimate truth for your people.

If you have patience to read then please do that before trying to answer. Everything is very clear and listed chronologically for consumption of common people to understand.

Lolx we all know who has whitewashed brain due to propaganda...


And we all know who is being fed especially after EU disinfo Labs report...


and Wikipedia is a great source but not in hands of indians because they will change it every other day to spread their propaganda 🤣
you dont even need an account on most of wiki pages to make changes on em :rofl:

And is it not true that india tried to invade Pakistan from Runn of kutch ?
 
Pakistan celebrates this war as “Defence day” for successfully thwarting an Indian attack on Pakistan. They have created a narrative that India attacked Pakistan without any provocation and that Pakistan defeated India resoundingly. They don’t talk about any Pakistani operation (Op Gibraltar) to capture Kashmir and Indian offensive as a counter to the same. Masters of propaganda.


Fighting for a disputed landed is not called provocation . India attacked Lahore because they knew they cannot beat us in Kashmir , the only way to escape the confirmed defeat was to attack the international boundary to stretch our army , which India did so . If the Indian forces were that mighty they should have wiped us from Kashmir .

You accept it or not that was a cowardly move , mard ke bachay bantay aur aakar kashmir mein lartay .
Just wait for Next battle you will see for your eyes what we will do to you this time , Mark my words . . . .
 
Martial race BS. The viets on average were short, slim and yet they defended against the Americans, screwed the Chinese up pretty good, I don't see them going around talking about their superior fighter race. Race has much less to do with it than resolve as a nation.
 
Do not please twist the Pakistan Movement. It was started in Dhaka when the All-India Muslim was formed there in 1910. The rest is history. You are going after the name Pakistan. It is called twisting the truth for which you guys are so expert.
Bro chill. @PakistaniAtBahrain is having an honest convo and focusing on 1971. I don't think he is denying the contribution of East Bengal in the Pak movement.
 
Sorry, I initially mistyped. I have no doubt he was always loyal to Pakistan and never a Bangladeshi. What I cannot confirm is whether PAF truely believed during the war that he was too valuable to deploy but I find the argument ridiculous.

he was grounded as a precaution. even though he wasnt Bengali, he was born in Bengal and PAF didnt want to take any chances of defections. he spoke fluent Bengali, and his family had stayed in that Bengal region for a while. all those that were born in Bengal and/or or Bengali ethnicity were grounded during 1971. that limited the number of Matiur Rahmans' and removed the risk of losing planes through defection/crashing when we always had fewer planes than India.
 
1965 Indo-Pak War: Busting the myth


Air Cdre (Retd) Ishfaq Ilahi Choudhury

THIS article is to recall the 17-day war of Sep 1965 between India and Pakistan that, among other things, helped to do two things as far as the Bengalis were concerned. One, it completely destroyed the myth created about the Bengalis being a non-martial race. And secondly, it exposed the lax preparedness for the defence of the eastern wing of the country. President Ayub Khan of Pakistan, in his book “Friends Not Masters”, had exposed the discriminatory mindset of the Pakistani establishment towards their Bengali compatriots. The September War was an opportunity for the Bengalis in the armed forces to vindicate their military prowess.

Forty nine years ago on 6 September 1965, a full-scale war broke out between India and Pakistan. It was a short 17-day war that was virtually confined to West Pakistan and parts of the disputed territory of Kashmir. As the war unfolded, the Bengalis all over Pakistan were excited over the stories of heroism by the 1st Battalion, The East Bengal Regiment (EBR) in the defence of the key Pakistani city of Lahore. Also in the air, stories of valour by Bengali pilots of Pakistan Air Force (PAF) greatly inspired the Bengali youths. The West Pakistanis used to belittle the Bengalis by calling them a non-martial race; this was belied by the military prowess and bravery shown by the officers and men of Bengali origin. The war also exposed the eastern wing's vulnerabilities with so little military assets to defend it. The war is virtually forgotten in Bangladesh today, despite the fact that the Bengalis played an important part in it.

Pakistani leadership at that time had led the nation to a disastrous war that was fraught with serious political and military lapses. After the debacle in the border war with China in 1962, India started a massive expansion and modernization of its armed forces with generous aid from the Soviet Union and Western powers. Pakistani leadership realized that the possibility of militarily pressurizing India was fast slipping away as the power balance tilted more towards India. They started planning a secret military operation to force India to come to a negotiated settlement on Kashmir. In early August 1965, Pakistan launched a clandestine operation, code named “Operation Gibraltar”. The aim was to infiltrate inside Indian held Kashmir and to demolish bridges, cutoff supply lines, etc to create panic among the populace. They also set up a radio station, called “Sada-e-Kashmir”, purported to be the voice of the Mujahedin fighting for Kashmir's liberation. The assumption was that the radio broadcast, along with the guerilla activities, will trigger a general uprising among the Kashmiris. None of that happened. In fact, many of these infiltrators were arrested, killed in encounters and often were handed over to the authority by the locals. By the end of August, Operation Gibraltar petered out; remnants of the so-called Mujahedin tracked back to Pakistan.

On 1 September 1965, regular Pakistani troops crossed the cease fire line (CFL) and moved towards Jammu. The forces made quick advance and in the next couple of days threatened to cut Jammu-Srinagar road. The Indian PM gave a warning on 2 September that unless Pakistan withdrew its forces across the CFL, India would respond “at a time and place of its own choosing”. The Indian response came on 5-6 Sept night when it launched attacks across Sialkot and Lahore. The Indian response was full one month after the Pakistani incursion. The Indian forces, besides threatening two key cities, poised to cut the vital Grand Trunk (GT) road. At this time, the 1st Battalion of the EBR was deployed in the defence of Lahore along the Bambawali- Ravi-Bedian canal, commonly known as BRB canal. They held their ground despite repeated Indian attacks. At the end of the war, this regiment had the honour of being awarded the highest number of gallantry awards among all the regiments of Pakistan Army.

In the air war that followed, Pakistan Air Force (PAF) had a qualitative edge over the IAF in terms of pilots and aircraft, which, despite IAF's quantitative advantage, gave PAF a slight edge in the end. Here too, a number of PAF pilots of Bengali origin earned high military honour. Many Bengali soldiers and airmen embraced martyrdom and many others were wounded in battle.


By the second week into the war, Pakistani forces were running out of ammunition and spares. US had imposed on both the warring sides an arms embargo which hurt Pakistan badly because almost all her weapons were of US origin. Pakistan had no option but to accept a UN resolution for a ceasefire to take effect from 22 September 1965. An initiative by the Soviet Premier Alexei Kosygin, resulted in a peace deal, known as “The Tashkent Declaration”, signed by the warring parties on 4 January 1966 in Tashkent. The declaration was hailed as a new beginning of peace. It stated that both countries will pull back their forces to pre-war positions, will restore economic and diplomatic ties and will initiate orderly exchange of prisoners. The treaty was viewed by many Pakistanis as a diplomatic defeat for President Ayub. Ayub never recovered from the fall of his stature after Tashkent and was ousted four years later in the face of popular uprising.

This was a war that had no clear victor or vanquished. The aim of the Pakistani high command was to seize a portion of Kashmir to force India to the negotiating table; on the other hand, India's aim was to stop any Pakistani incursion and not to allow external interference in the Kashmir issue. In the end, India largely achieved her aim and objectives, while Pakistan was in disarray. The facade of democracy that President Ayub created was shattered because what to speak of the ordinary people, even the Parliament or the Cabinet was not consulted when the vital decision to send infiltrators into Kashmir was taken.

On the economic front, Pakistan suffered badly due to war. The 3rd Five Year Plan (1965-70) was virtually in tatters. 6% GDP growth rate of early 1960s almost stalled by the end of the decade. East Pakistan was cut-off from its western wing during the War. A deep sense of separatism and alienation grew in East Pakistan as an aftermath. The war raised the issue of the defence of East Pakistan. With only one infantry division, a squadron of fighters and no naval assets, except for a few patrol crafts, East Pakistan was virtually defenseless. In June 1966, the Awami League in its 6-Point Programme demanded greater defence investment in East Pakistan which soon became a rallying point for the Bengalis. Among the demands were shifting of the NHQ to Chittagong, establishment of an ordnance factory and raising of a paramilitary force to augment the defense of the eastern wing. The Bengali soldiers, sailors and airmen proved that as professional military men they are second to none. We honour those valiant sons of the soil who gave their best in the field of battle in September 1965 to keep up the honour and dignity of the Bengali nation. Many veterans of 65-War displayed the same valour in the Bangladesh Liberation War in 1971.
The writer is Registrar, East West University, Dhaka

First I would like to clarify, that as a Pakistani, I fully recognize that we owe a debt of gratitude to our Bengali brothers and sisters for their contributions to our joint independence from the British, without the Muslims of Bengal, it would have been very hard to gain independence, perhaps near impossible. We shall always be in your eternal debt.

But, there are few statements within the article that do not seem to make sense or convey an incomplete interpretation of history. Facts are wrong if the interpretation is incorrect. So, I would like to add a clarification.

We tend to take a simplistic view of history, a story is told and repeated endlessly before it becomes a fact, but that is unfair if the facts portray a falsehood. Let's not forget Pakistan had nothing when it started, both wings. All the industries and administrative structures, everything was in the area that became India. Pakistan, both wings had to start from scratch.

It takes time to establish anything anew, if you move house it takes a lot of effort, we are discussing a new country, in two parts, separated by 1000 miles of hostile territory. In the end, mistakes were made but there was also a lot of good. It was Ayub who decided to have a second capital in East Pakistan, the Bangladesh Parliament building was approved before Bangladesh came into being because it was recognised there was a need for a second capital for a country like Pakistan. People are not born with wisdom, but over time, they were learning. There are other examples, but this is enough to prove an essential point, that good was also done, and remedies were being worked out.

Now, regarding the article.

West Pakistanis used to belittle the Bengalis by calling them a non-martial race;
It has to be understood, this attitude was an overhang of British thinking, martial races theory was a widely held belief across South Asia. it was still wrong, but it was not due to the hatred of East Pakistanis, old thinking takes time to die. The fighting spirit of Bengalis was proving it wrong. But, it needs to be understood that this thinking came from somewhere else, and not a West Pakistani sourced idea.

The war also exposed the eastern wing's vulnerabilities with so little military assets to defend it.
That was purely due to the lack of resources, the capital was in West Pakistan, and it was also a larger area that was also more suited for heavy warfare, and the core conflicts were located in West Pakistan, Kashmir, and Rann of Katch. The areas that India claimed were in West Pakistan, so logic dictates that you would concentrate your military assets where there is a live threat. Combine that reality with a lack of resources and there are very few options left.

Pakistani leadership realized that the possibility of militarily pressurizing India was fast slipping away as the power balance tilted more towards India.
There was never a military opportunity with regards to India, because it was many times larger, and had access to Soviet and European weaponry. The main reason was that India did not abide by its promises and frustration built-in among the Pakistani leadership.

When China defeated India in the 1962 war, India ran to America and Europe, who in return gave India nearly a billion dollars worth of weapons, very quickly, but also forced Pakistan not to do anything in return for a promise of a negotiated settlement of Kashmir dispute. India dragged its feet once China pulled back, and frustration set in, which resulted in int the 1965 situation. That's the actual reason.

The Indian forces, besides threatening two key cities, poised to cut the vital Grand Trunk (GT) road
This was the main reason for India's attack, it failed on both accounts, miserably.

This was a war that had no clear victor or vanquished. The aim of the Pakistani high command was to seize a portion of Kashmir to force India to the negotiating table; on the other hand, India's aim was to stop any Pakistani incursion and not to allow external interference in the Kashmir issue. In the end, India largely achieved her aim and objectives, while Pakistan was in disarray.
There is a clear contradiction in the same paragraph, it just does not make sense at all. It starts off by saying there was no clear victor, which is actually correct, then goes on to say Pakistan was in disarray and India met its aim, which is ridiculous. The author has already pointed towards the main reasons for India attack above and declared there was no clear winner. You cannot have two contradictory conclusions on the same issue.
The fact is Pakistan failed to meet its objectives having crossed the ceasefire line (not the border), and India failed to meet its objectives after attacking across the international border. There was actually no clear winner. The second claim does not make sense at all.

On the economic front, Pakistan suffered badly due to war. The 3rd Five Year Plan (1965-70) was virtually in tatters. 6% GDP growth rate of early 1960s almost stalled by the end of the decade.

On the face of it, this statement is true, but it implies a wrong conclusion, which is wrong. India also suffered economically, just as much as Pakistan.
Please see the links below.

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/IND/india/gdp-growth-rate

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/PAK/pakistan/economic-growth-rate
 
Fighting for a disputed landed is not called provocation .
It's called war.

India attacked Lahore because they knew they cannot beat us in Kashmir , the only way to escape the confirmed defeat was to attack the international boundary to stretch our army , which India did so . If the Indian forces were that mighty they should have wiped us from Kashmir .
And that's called strategy. You could've, would've, should've done a lot of things, including reaching Delhi maybe, but you couldn't do it.
Mighty is the word a Pakistani PM once used to describe India at the UN. 😉
 
i havent heard that his mum was Bengali. only heard about his father's side and MM Alam's mother tongue was Urdu, so i suppose his mother must have been a very good Urdu speaker, and therefore unlikely to be Bengali.



if he was going to hook up with Bangladesh in 1971, then he could easily done it after 1971, like a few others did. but he didnt.



i dont know. i think that is the problem with a nationalist movement that is all about one ethnicity, one language, one culture, etc. what happens to those that arent part of this one group? in Pakistan, the Pakistani Bengalis are Pakistanis and there is no contradiction because being a Pakistani is an ideology and not an ethnicity.

With the solidification of the Urdu language, salwar kameez as a national dress across the land, the increasing similarity in cuisines, and other factors, Pakistani is slowly becoming an ethnic marker, perhaps another 100 years or so.

After all, no ethnicity is formed in a static timeframe, it is always a result of a shared language and other experiences, that creates a given ethnicity. So much of what is happening in Pakistan points to a new reality of Pakistani ethnicity. I have a small extended family, but we have almost all ethnic groups, and everyone only had one type of wedding, a Pakistani wedding.
 
Anyway, the thread here is all about the 1965 Pakistan-India War when BD was east Pakistan. Our brave East Bengal Regiment troops valiantly repulsed a number of Indian attacks trying to cross the BRB canal.

General Chowdhury, the Chief of the Indian Army, called a press conference and gleefully invited the newspapermen to meet him in Lahore the next morning to celebrate the capture of the historical city.

Well, it did not materialize because the EBR troops repulsed the IA advance with tanks several times. Many EBR troops hid underwater of the BRB canal and kept on firing at the Indian troops and tanks.

Please note that these EBR troops were still junior and had not even completed their training but were required to save Lahore. They did it but with the sacrifice of many lives. They were awarded most of the bravery medals by the GoP.

BA and PA should celebrate the occasion jointly. However, IN ships have come to our shore to celebrate the 1971 BD-India victory.
 
I wonder what is there to celebrate about it. You carried out an attack on India. With the sole aim of capturing Kashmir. India retaliated and reached the doorsteps of Lahore. You were able to thwart that attack and saved Lahore. That was good defence. But from an attacker you ended up defending your izzat. As an attacker you should celebrate the success of an attack not the other way around.

Do you celebrate that you failed in your greater objective? Or you needed something to create a narrative about great success and portray India as an aggressor?

This is the reality.

Lolx proving my point that indians are braonwashed india attacked Runn of Kutch then Pakistan initiated Op Gibraltar and india surprisingly tried to invade Lahore... and door steps of Lahore ? You wasnt even half way from border made.. 22.4 bloody miles if I am not wrong 😆
 
Bengali nationalism is often misunderstood. The idea is not to screw other languages and ethnicities but to value Bengali culture.

yeah, but the other ethnic groups lose out when the focus is one ethnicity, one language, one culture. but luckily Bangladesh is ethnically liike 99% Bengali, so it doesnt make a big difference. whereas the concept of Pakistan was multi-ethnicity, multi-cultural, and multi-lingual with one common language to combine us all the same way we had one religion to combine us all. many of the founding fathers of Pakistan of Bengali ethnicity also believed that Urdu should be that link/national language, not Bengali, Punjabi, etc. many of the educated people of all the ethnicities in Pakistan (West and East) could speak Urdu very well.

Do not please twist the Pakistan Movement. It was started in Dhaka when the All-India Muslim was formed there in 1910. The rest is history. You are going after the name Pakistan. It is called twisting the truth for which you guys are so expert.

no Pakistani denies the great contribution of the Bengali muslims in the creation of Pakistan and the movement that led to it. as i said, even today million of Bengalis (partially or fully) are Pakistanis. the Bengali people and language is very much valued and stored forever so that every Pakistani can see it. you want proof?

the video and pics below is Minar-e-Pakistan. the Lahore Resolution presented by AK Fazlul Haq is written in Urdu and Bengali and its on the monument itself. i am sure you know who AK Fazlul Haq is, the Sher-e-Bangla.

"At the base, there are floral inscriptions on ten converging white marble Commemorative plaques. The inscriptions include the text of Lahore Resolution in Urdu, Bengali and English, and Delhi Resolution's text, which was passed on 9 April 1946. On different plaques, Quranic verses and 99 names of Allah are inscribed in Arabic calligraphy, whereas National Anthem of Pakistan in Urdu and Bengali, excerpts from the speeches of Muhammad Ali Jinnah, in Urdu, Bengali and English, along with few couplets of Allama Iqbal include the other important inscriptions."

also at Minar-e-Pakistan if you look from the top, you can see there are 2 crescent moons. one is green and that represents West Pakistan, and one is red and that represents East Pakistan.

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EOncA5XWAAY3Dw2.jpg


there are also 2 eyes, one represents West Pakistan, and the 2nd represents East Pakistan. you can see it in the video.

completion of the monument ended at 1968. 1971 happened later, so if we wanted to delete the contribution of Bengali people and Bengali language then we wouldnt have all this present at Minar-e-Pakistan, a very important site in the history of Pakistan (East and West).


@Destranator as for what you said about the human lives lost and damage in 1971. its still happening today. i dont know if you understand Urdu, but there is tear-jerker of a video you can see to know what i mean. a Pakistani Bengali was interviewed (in 2020) in a Bengali fish market in Pakistan. his sister lives in Bangladesh. he hasnt met his sister since 1974, he hasnt even seen her face on whatsapp or anything since 1974, ever since he came to Pakistan and started working for the Government of Pakistan. i put a time stamp in the video. just look at his eyes and listen to his voice.

 
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With the solidification of the Urdu language, salwar kameez as a national dress across the land, the increasing similarity in cuisines, and other factors, Pakistani is slowly becoming an ethnic marker, perhaps another 100 years or so.

After all, no ethnicity is formed in a static timeframe, it is always a result of a shared language and other experiences, that creates a given ethnicity. So much of what is happening in Pakistan points to a new reality of Pakistani ethnicity. I have a small extended family, but we have almost all ethnic groups, and everyone only had one type of wedding, a Pakistani wedding.

yeah. i think as time passes, we will turn into one ethnicity of sorts. even the old habits like only marrying within a community is starting to end with the newer generations. for example, we are bihari muhajirs, but my sister married a pashtun, my cousin married a bengali. all these thing were not very common even a couple of decades ago.
 
yeah, but the other ethnic groups lose out when the focus is one ethnicity, one language, one culture. but luckily Bangladesh is ethnically liike 99% Bengali, so it doesnt make a big difference. whereas the concept of Pakistan was multi-ethnicity, multi-cultural, and multi-language with one common language to combine us all the same way we had one religion to combine us all. many of the founding fathers of Pakistan of Bengali ethnicity also believed that Urdu should be that link/national language, not Bengali, Punjabi, etc. many of the educated people of all the ethnicities in Pakistan (West and East) could speak Urdu very well.



no Pakistani denies the great contribution of the Bengali muslims in the creation of Pakistan and the movement that led to it. as i said, even today million of Bengalis (partially or fully) are Pakistanis. the Bengali people and language is very much valued and stored forever so that every Pakistani can see it. you want proof?

the video and pics below is Minar-e-Pakistan. the Lahore Resolution presented by AK Fazlul Haq is written in Urdu and Bengali and its on the monument itself. i am sure you know who AK Fazlul Haq is, the Sher-e-Bangla.

"At the base, there are floral inscriptions on ten converging white marble Commemorative plaques. The inscriptions include the text of Lahore Resolution in Urdu, Bengali and English, and Delhi Resolution's text, which was passed on 9 April 1946. On different plaques, Quranic verses and 99 names of Allah are inscribed in Arabic calligraphy, whereas National Anthem of Pakistan in Urdu and Bengali, excerpts from the speeches of Muhammad Ali Jinnah, in Urdu, Bengali and English, along with few couplets of Allama Iqbal include the other important inscriptions."

also at Minar-e-Pakistan if you look from the top, you can see there are 2 crescent moons. one is green and that represents West Pakistan, and one is red and that represents East Pakistan.

View attachment 723417

View attachment 723418

there are also 2 eyes, one represents West Pakistan, and the 2nd represents East Pakistan. you can see it in the video.

completion of the monument ended at 1968. 1971 happened later, so if we wanted to delete the contribution of Bengali people and Bengali language then we wouldnt have all this present at Minar-e-Pakistan, a very important site in the history of Pakistan (East and West).


@Destranator as for what you said about the human lives lost and damage in 1971. its still happening today. i dont know if you understand Urdu, but there is tear-jerker of a video you can see to know what i mean. a Pakistani Bengali was interviewed (in 2020) in a Bengali fish market in Pakistan. his sister lives in Bangladesh. he hasnt met his sister since 1974, he hasnt even seen her face on whatsapp or anything since 1974, ever since he came to Pakistan and started working for the Government of Pakistan. i put a time stamp in the video. just look at his eyes and listen to his voice.


I was in process of putting this together, but couldn't find the videos, nice one, well done.

Our Bengali brothers are not aware of the proper history and the respect Pakistan showed to East Pakistan.
I have one Bengali friend, my age, in his 40s, who was under the impression that all West Pakistanis spoke Urdu as a mother tongue, in his worldview it was a West Pakistani Urdu vs East Pakistani Bengali.
He was shocked to learn new details. He has been in the UK most of his life although born in Bangladesh, I was shocked that's what he believed.

But, it is our job to educate, unfortunately, most Pakistanis are not properly aware either and provide empty, silly replies, that contribute very little.
 
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