19 Places Every Muslim Must Visit in India

[Sharma Ji]

I don't like to give any oxygen to this myth/trope.

It is deliberately propagated to establish racial/moral/social superiority of Pakistani Muslims over Indian Muslims.

I have seen it in action when listening to some Muslims speak about Pakistani girls. Nose, skin etc. They are in awe.

Its not right and it makes me feel sick about my own countrymen.

Cheers, Doc

historical narratives are like playdough and slime, can be and are almost always moulded by the retarded power structures in place everywhere.

much like the erstwhile carcinogenic 'plasticine', that gents of a certain vintage might be more familiar with lol

facts are, a lot of the top talent fled for there, businessmen, military folk, intellectuals, professors.. you name it. Creamy layer bhag li, en masse.

not all of course, a lot never saw any sense in it.

but unke gareeb kaafi vulnerable ho gaye as a result of all the generals and admirals defecting, unka high command hi gayab ho gya mostly.

it's not a trope, man.

we're still dealing with tremors from that big quake back then.

 

[padamchen]

Not sure where you're trying to take this....perhaps i oversimplified.....mughals were originally invaders, then as an empire became integrated.

Is this any different to what the Aryans did in northern and central Indian territory?

Why are the mughals reviled but the Aryans literally worshipped?

By that analogy, the Brits settled down quite comfortably in India too. Even inter-bred with Indians, creating the sub-community, Anglo Indians.

That they were here for a little more than 200 years versus the Mughals who had a much longer run, was in my mind the only difference.

The Mughals were as connected to their original homelands as the Brits were.

The Mughals built in their original Persian style. LOOK at the buildings in this thread! There is NOTHING Indian about the architecture. Irony?!!!

Persian was their court language and Persian literature and scholars received court patronage.

The Mughals were as Indian as the British were.

Both the Mughals and the Brits were removed from Indian soil by pure native homegrown resistance.

Where is the difference that you are trying to establish of the relative "nativeness" of the Mughals over the British?

Cheers, Doc

 

[jamahir]

@jamahir @xeuss @Naofumi @The_Showstopper

Most of the Indian Shia are looked at as a model minority just like the Parsis. But these Shia are of recent decades unlike the progressives ones ( like Kaifi Azmi ) in the decades during and just after Independence. The progressive ones are as distant to the Tablighi Jamaat as they are to the BJP and the remainder of the Indian Shia.

I agree with treating minorities fairly, a bit of affirmative action is fine too but let us not go overboard with it, that only hurts the country.

Affirmative action in India with regards to repressed communities like the Dalits has not worked in 73 years. Nehru and his colleagues should have put on courage and initiated an actual socialist welfare state in 1947. Doing so would have largely removed a lot of socio-economic problems that are seen in India now.

The BJP is a centre right party, not far right or anything crazy. Mr Modi is an out and out capitalist, that is his world view as PM (not going to deep dive into all the policy matters but that is who he is, it's super obvious to anyone who gives a real dekko into what he's been up to)

Tell me, did the BJP government take to task those microfinance companies ( like SKS ) who have been responsible for the suicides of countless farmers ? Any empathetic ruling political movement would have shut down the microfinance companies and arrested the main people.

 

[padamchen]

Most of the Indian Shia are looked at as a model minority just like the Parsis. But these Shia are of recent decades unlike the progressives ones ( like Kaifi Azmi ) in the decades during and just after Independence. The progressive ones are as distant to the Tablighi Jamaat as they are to the BJP and the remainder of the Indian Shia.



Affirmative action in India with regards to repressed communities like the Dalits has not worked in 73 years. Nehru and his colleagues should have put on courage and initiated an actual socialist welfare state in 1947. Doing so would have largely removed a lot of socio-economic problems that are seen in India now.



Tell me, did the BJP government take to task those microfinance companies ( like SKS ) who have been responsible for the suicides of countless farmers ? Any empathetic ruling political movement would have shut down the microfinance companies and arrested the main people.

@jamahir what is not progressive about our Shias?

Most of them are the poster kids of what type of Muslims we Indians would like to have amongst us.

That's not to say that we do not have similar Sunnis as well. But the overall Shia community is like that.

I do not understand the distinction you are alluding to, because you are not being open with details. Your "progressive" "socialist" buzzwords can mean a lot to different people ... and not all the same either.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Sharma Ji]

"The BJP is a centre right party, not far right or anything crazy. "

Here's my favourite bit @dharmi

Subconsciously, you realise that Modi indeed represents mainstream middle class Hindu thought in India and even abroad.

By Indian standards, yes he is close to the middle. Do you think he would last five minutes in a European centrist party with his record and beliefs? Remind us of the broad cross section of western political spectrum representation he took boating in Kashmir.

Here's what you have to try and understand.

The middle class here, most of them (there is some old money, like doc here lol) "pulled themselves up by the bootstraps", to use a "trope", as the western lefties call it. I stand witness to it personally, not old money here at all.. born into an aam admi (not abject poverty) government "service" family, my old man did reasonably well for himself 100% hard work, good grades, the lot of it..

By European standards, Bernie Sanders is a centrist.

Modi is a staunch capitalist.. a policy deep dive will be a headache but he's doing stuff like encouraging people who don't really need a helping hand to learn to walk it alone, give up subsidies etc.. also rapidly mainstreaming the poor into a 'controlled economy'

waay too big a % of our economy still lies completely outside the purview or any control of and by the state. To mainstream people who have never had a bank account for example.. minimal regulation, we need that stuff.

Was a good jumla, this one.. "minimum government, maximum governance" lol

They're out and out capitalists, the BJP.. everything else is just noise.

The boat trip.. they had a good time, hope they were treated to some tabak maz, and all the rest of it.

We need our global right wing friends to come help at a time when Corbyn, Sanders (Biden now) are all making kind of anti India statements as they beg for votes. Good to know we have other friends across the west apart from just Trump and Bojo who are in office currently.

 

[AfrazulMandal]

Is it worst now?

There is a Temple being built on top of it now.

The Masjid itself does not physically exist anymore.

 

[Sharma Ji]

There is a Temple being built on top of it now.

The Masjid itself does not physically exist anymore.

come do seva, help with some bricklaying.

this will help clear your past karma.

 

[American Pakistani]

There is a Temple being built on top of it now.

The Masjid itself does not physically exist anymore.

So the bharti Hindutva army and govt help Hindutva rss vhp bjp terrorists to martyr the mosque and build their temple. Still that site should be a must go for Muslims as it shows how once there was a Muslim mosque.

 

[padamchen]

There is a Temple being built on top of it now.

The Masjid itself does not physically exist anymore.

Some recent photos of construction ongoing even during the pandemic.

Promises to be an epic structure with a lot of very beautiful stonework.

Material and men pouring in from across the country and the world.

This is faith at it deepest. And I am really really really happy for our Hindu brothers.

Jai Sri Ram.

Jai Hind. Jai Maharashtra.

Cheers, Doc

 

[jamahir]

@jamahir what is not progressive about our Shias?

Most of them are the poster kids of what type of Muslims we Indians would like to have amongst us.

1. What is the kind of Muslim needed ?

2. By "we Indians" whom are you excluding ?

3. The Shia-origin Shabana Azmi had to face rejection while house hunting in Bombay.

I do not understand the distinction you are alluding to, because you are not being open with details. Your "progressive" "socialist" buzzwords can mean a lot to different people ... and not all the same either.

Isn't "socialist" self-descriptive enough ? It puts the Indian socialist on the same platform as the Chavista in Venezuela.

 

[padamchen]

1. What is the kind of Muslim needed ?

2. By "we Indians" whom are you excluding ?

3. The Shia-origin Shabana Azmi had to face rejection while house hunting in Bombay.



Isn't "socialist" self-descriptive enough ? It puts the Indian socialist on the same platform as the Chavista in Venezuela.

Why the phool aur titli bollywoodesque routine bhaijan?

Answering a question with a question?

What is non progressive about our Shias?

This was your statement and you actually left-handedly equated them with the BJP.

So please clarify.

Cheers, Doc

 

[jamahir]

Why the phool aur titli bollywoodesque routine bhaijan?

Answering a question with a question?

What is non progressive about our Shias?

This was your statement and you actually left-handedly equated them with the BJP.

So please clarify.

Cheers, Doc

OK, I will simplify it. Would the Indian Shia be acceptable only when they support the BJP ?

 

[padamchen]

OK, I will simplify it. Would the Indian Shia be acceptable only when they support the BJP ?

You are still shying away from my DIRECT question by side step dancing around it with another question.

This was your post I was referring to -

" But these Shia are of recent decades unlike the progressives ones ( like Kaifi Azmi ) in the decades during and just after Independence. The progressive ones are as distant to the Tablighi Jamaat as they are to the BJP and the remainder of the Indian Shia. "

So you are implying a clear distinction between the progressive Shias of old (and few present today) to the "rest" (alluded majority) of the Shias today.

You group today's "non-progressive" Shias in a direct "and" grouping with the BJP.

And you distance the progressive Shias equidistant from the regressive TJ as with the rest of the Shias and the BJP ... whats left unsaid is whether the RotShias and BJP occupy the same pole as the TJ OR form a triangle with them and the progressive Shias OR (very optimistically, but highly unlikely) form one end of the spectrum, the TJ at the opposite end, with the progressive Shias occupying middle neutral ground.

Cheers, Doc

 

[jamahir]

You are still shying away from my DIRECT question by side step dancing around it with another question.

This was your post I was referring to -

" But these Shia are of recent decades unlike the progressives ones ( like Kaifi Azmi ) in the decades during and just after Independence. The progressive ones are as distant to the Tablighi Jamaat as they are to the BJP and the remainder of the Indian Shia. "

So you are implying a clear distinction between the progressive Shias of old (and few present today) to the "rest" (alluded majority) of the Shias today.

You group today's "non-progressive" Shias in a direct "and" grouping with the BJP.

And you distance the progressive Shias equidistant from the regressive TJ as with the rest of the Shias and the BJP ... whats left unsaid is whether the RotShias and BJP occupy the same pole as the TJ OR form a triangle with them and the progressive Shias OR (very optimistically, but highly unlikely) form one end of the spectrum, the TJ at the opposite end, with the progressive Shias occupying middle neutral ground.

Cheers, Doc

I will go for the spectrum analogy but with these changes. The BJP-supporting Shia at the end, the TJ next to them, the rest of the Shia somewhere towards the other end, the progressive Shia at the actual other end.

 

[King Julien]

3. The Shia-origin Shabana Azmi had to face rejection while house hunting in Bombay.

Mumbai has something called as cooperative societies act and Model bye law, there is election for each society to select chairman, secretary.. these are generally everyday uncles who have Absolutely no idea what MCS act is and they pass resolutions in meetings that have no legal value- like dogs not allowed in elevator, no plants on window / balcony, no meat eater allowed in Jain Society (including hindu's).. you get the idea..

Either ways, after spending USD 700 to 1500 per square feet people expect peace of mind, hence irrational decisions. Irrespective of race, religion etc we are not allowed to sell our property without consulting/informing our neighbors. Some places like lodha altamount, even if you pay 2x, they don't sell u the property. Shivaji park area where I stay, Non Maharashtrians are absolutely not allowed, even laundry, milk, vegetable vendors have to be Maharashtrians.. Shabana Azmi or Amitabh Bachchan not allowed in our society