15 Jordanian F-16 for sale

[Inception-06]

Hi,

No we would no have---. The first step would have been to neutralized anti shia element in paksitan---just like against Ishaque & co from Muzaffar Garh---lightening strike---make sure to tell them you mean business---.

The next step would have been to neutralize the media----. No anti state rhetoric---.

The next step would be to make the pitch to the pakistani public---.

The next step would be to talk to the yemeni's and tell them to not to fall prey to the death machine of the Iranians---.

Tell them not to follow the guidelines of iran---because where ever iran goes---death and destruction follows.

The next step would be to find peace between the two factions and find the reasons why the Houthis---who had been peaceful---what caused them to pickup arms---.

And how would you have handled Iran and the Iran/Pak Border ? Do you really believe, the Iranian would send us flowers and would not activate their sleeper cells all over Pakistan ?

 

[A2Z]

Hi,

They buy from the U S---because the U S comes to their rescue all the time.

They tried to give you the opportunity---they literally begged you for their security last year and you rejected them---and then you claim that they don't want to buy your stuff or don't want to invest in your R&D.

Well firstly my point wasn't that they should start buying weapons from us rather they must start asking for TOT and local production so that they can achieve self sufficiency.

Secondly as far as protecting Saudi's is concerned Pakistan has always taken up that task with pride and there are always a certain number of PA officials deployed in Saudi Arabia for either training their troops or otherwise. However as far as going in Yemen was concerned that was one of the few moments in Pakistan's history when both military and government were on the same page. But still we did agreed to defend them and Protect their soil but refused to declare war on Yemen and send our troops on Yemeni soil.

Hi,

No we would no have---. The first step would have been to neutralized anti shia element in paksitan---just like against Ishaque & co from Muzaffar Garh---lightening strike---make sure to tell them you mean business---.

The next step would have been to neutralize the media----. No anti state rhetoric---.

The next step would be to make the pitch to the pakistani public---.

The next step would be to talk to the yemeni's and tell them to not to fall prey to the death machine of the Iranians---.

Tell them not to follow the guidelines of iran---because where ever iran goes---death and destruction follows.

The next step would be to find peace between the two factions and find the reasons why the Houthis---who had been peaceful---what caused them to pickup arms---.

I think you would be well aware of the fact that the only reason why Pakistan did not end up like Iraq or Syria despite facing a bloody civil war. Yes the efforts by PA were crucial however the biggest factor was that the enemy was not able to trigger a sectarian conflict in Pakistan.

The entire world knew that it was war in Yemen was not a fight against houthi rebels and government but it is KSA vs Iran and it is also a open fact that majority of shite in Pakistan support Iran blindly and can get to any extent just to show their support.

we get royalties, irrespective of where the production line is

Secondly what the M2K-9 was more than a decade ago, the Indian Air Force is playing catch up today.

Yes indeed its true that UAE will get its share of money for every block sold and M2K-9 was more advanced then Indian Mirages but my point is what did UAE's local industry earn in term of engineering experience from Block 60 and M2k-9?

 

[Raider 21]

Sir, the US$3b in return gave us something most people won't be able to fathom. So lets leave it at that.


Really. He told you all of that.

Yes sir

 

[khanasifm]

Looks like thread is being turned into indo pak ME political talk show , just stick to the topic please

 

[Khafee]

Yes indeed its true that UAE will get its share of money for every block sold and M2K-9 was more advanced then Indian Mirages but my point is what did UAE's local industry earn in term of engineering experience from Block 60 and M2k-9?

1) Getting cutting edge defensive / offensive capability was achieved, which was of paramount importance.

2) Engineering - Can't comment on an open forum. Sorry.

Thank You for being civil.

 

[MastanKhan]

Sir, we paid more for R&D and proprietary rights, it had nothing to do with FMS sales. If any F16 BLk60 or above is sold, we get royalties, irrespective of where the production line is.

As of Nov.2014 FMS incur a charge of 1.2%, down from 1.5%

Secondly what the M2K-9 was more than a decade ago, the Indian Air Force is playing catch up today.

Hi,

Money is nothing---just a lack of it is a problem for some.

The price of a weapons systems is directly proportionate to the threat that you perceive from your enemy---your weapons also tell what you think of your enemy and mentally how prepared you are for the challenge.

Be it the mirage 2k9 or the BLK60---the planning of procuring these aircraft was very well thought of---and the brilliance in the approach lies in the diversity of the supplier.

Doing international business is another ball game, goin gin competetion of LHM or EURO fighter is sucide.
Pakistan need to carefully appoint sales team, which is handling Arab clientel.
Slaes team should keep Pakistan's interest dearest. Team members having prejudice, against Arabs are hurting Pakistan more than RAW.

Hi,

First of all---why would we be in competition with LHM or eurofighter---when our product is a GENERAL UTILITY type of product for these nations---which is perfect to sharpen the skills of their operators---to step upto a higher tiered equipment---but yet providing enough resource to overcome what in general the enemy has to throw at them in the arena.

Everybody wants to save money one way or the other---you just have to show them the right way and the right product. They buy the expensive product---because they feel that they have invested so much---that by default it would give them more security---.

You are correct about the sales team understanding the arab clientale---and their attitude.

 

[Indus Falcon]

Hi,

Money is nothing---just a lack of it is a problem for some.

The price of a weapons systems is directly proportionate to the threat that you perceive from your enemy---your weapons also tell what you think of your enemy and mentally how prepared you are for the challenge.

Be it the mirage 2k9 or the BLK60---the planning of procuring these aircraft was very well thought of---and the brilliance in the approach lies in the diversity of the supplier.

Absolutely, Very well said. The capability gained vs money, is a no-brainer.

My personal opinion is that some peoples objective is lying low, retiring, and taking a fat pension home. There are only a handful who have challenged the system and manged to get out unscathed, hence the deterrent.

We breed a culture of stomping on those who dare to question otherwise. Unless this mindset changes, Babu in, Babu out.

 

[MastanKhan]

Absolutely, Very well said. The capability gained vs money, is a no-brainer.

My personal opinion is that some peoples objective is lying low, retiring, and taking a fat pension home. There are only a handful who have challenged the system and manged to get out unscathed, hence the deterrent.

We breed a culture of stomping on those who dare to question otherwise. Unless this mindset changes, Babu in, Babu out.

Hi,

The price to speak up is very heavy---. It takes something beyond courage to keep stating your convictions in a presentable manner.

Your quote " The capability gained vs money, is a no-brainer "---there is nothing more that can be said.

 

[OTTOMAN]

Last report was that Capitol Hill has been notified of the sale, while first the process was going through the bureaucratic blender, now until the transfer of power in the White house, all remains frozen.

That's the problem with F-16, irrespective of approval / rejection from Capitol Hill.

PAF is forced to have human resource /infrasturcture available, all the time! ​

We may gain from 50% price cut on used F-16, but delays such as above... cost us in many other dimensions.

If we look at what PAF had been buying thus far.... that's really really OLD stuff. mostly 30-35 years old.
Reason, there are not many willing sellers to PAF, which is another debate.

No doubt, F-16 fits perfect in PAF and suits to its air defense requirements of limited offence, but wasting time and talent on uncertainty... is fetish.. is lunacy (if i may say).

Keep your focus on JF-17, try to have local assembly of engine. Or do something different, but for God's sake, stop buying F-16 scrap.
It would look even funnier, when F-16 production line in India would be pushing out new babies, while PAF would be visiting junkyards, with best talent in aviation.

There's a value in vision.... while generations of PAF were making their hair grey... running after bureaucracy in Capitol Hill, meanwhile India was running after same bureaucracy with its MRCA bait, in the process they met decision makers, while PAF remained involved with the desk staff for junk, which has no buyers otherwise.

If PAF need F-16, it should go after new or stop investing in infrastructure to keep up junk.
If approval of new F-16 doesn’t come within 6 months, stop making efforts for it. Send your existing F-16 to Turkey and close this chapter.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

That's the problem with F-16, irrespective of approval / rejection from Capitol Hill.

PAF is forced to have human resource /infrasturcture available, all the time! ​

We may gain from 50% price cut on used F-16, but delays such as above... cost us in many other dimensions.

If we look at what PAF had been buying thus far.... that's really really OLD stuff. mostly 30-35 years old.
Reason, there are not many willing sellers to PAF, which is another debate.

No doubt, F-16 fits perfect in PAF and suits to its air defense requirements of limited offence, but wasting time and talent on uncertainty... is fetish.. is lunacy (if i may say).

Keep your focus on JF-17, try to have local assembly of engine. Or do something different, but for God's sake, stop buying F-16 scrap.
It would look even funnier, when F-16 production line in India would be pushing out new babies, while PAF would be visiting junkyards, with best talent in aviation.

There's a value in vision.... while generations of PAF were making their hair grey... running after bureaucracy in Capitol Hill, meanwhile India was running after same bureaucracy with its MRCA bait, in the process they met decision makers, while PAF remained involved with the desk staff for junk, which has no buyers otherwise.

If PAF need F-16, it should go after new or stop investing in infrastructure to keep up junk.
If approval of new F-16 doesn’t come within 6 months, stop making efforts for it. Send your existing F-16 to Turkey and close this chapter.

As a matter of fact Turkey is also trying to move beyond F16s to a bird she can call herself own. As far as the Muslim government in Turkey is concerned it's personal - the last time proxy F16s were kiliing the Turkish folks inclding special services at random...

 

[Humble Analyst]

Hi,

Money is nothing---just a lack of it is a problem for some.

The price of a weapons systems is directly proportionate to the threat that you perceive from your enemy---your weapons also tell what you think of your enemy and mentally how prepared you are for the challenge.

Be it the mirage 2k9 or the BLK60---the planning of procuring these aircraft was very well thought of---and the brilliance in the approach lies in the diversity of the supplier.



Hi,

First of all---why would we be in competition with LHM or eurofighter---when our product is a GENERAL UTILITY type of product for these nations---which is perfect to sharpen the skills of their operators---to step upto a higher tiered equipment---but yet providing enough resource to overcome what in general the enemy has to throw at them in the arena.

Everybody wants to save money one way or the other---you just have to show them the right way and the right product. They buy the expensive product---because they feel that they have invested so much---that by default it would give them more security---.

You are correct about the sales team understanding the arab clientale---and their attitude.

Well said, it is the value under the given circumstances. Pakistan can and is selling to other countries. JF 17 will sell on merit and according to the requirements of the purchasing country.

 

[IHK_PK]

I

RJAF would like to sell 15 serviceable F16 M3 aircraft

http://www.rjaf.mil.jo/index.php/en...e-to-sell-15-serviceable-f16-m3-aircraft.html

Isn't its now 14 left. one crashed yesterday ?

 

[The SC]

Cooperation with Pakistan is something that the GCC countries would never do. They are very rich and buying something like JFT that has a price tag of $30-35 million is too cheap for them to even consider. They are arrogant people and take pride in the billions of $$$ they have.

Secondly they are not interested in R&D, while UAEAF was buying Block 60s they paid a lot, almost $3 billion in terms of R&D cost. Research and development that was done in USA and only by USA. If PAF was striking that sort of a deal they would certainly have asked for maximum local manufacturing. However UAE is happy in purchasing off the self items and who could blame them they have the money to do it.

Another example are Saudis they spend 3rd largest amount on defence and the amount of self sufficiency they have is nothing even close to what a country spending $80+ billion must have. They have all the fancy toys Typhoons, F-15s, Abrahams, you just name it they have it or must have considered it at some point but they are all purchased off the shelf items.

And what would have Pakistan bought if it had all that money?
SA manufactures a lot of the F-15 parts, they are starting to make Blackhawk helies at home,and many other heavy industrial projects.. the UAE is doing as much or more in High tech.. and military manufacturing..
It is time to learn to be happy for the fortune of others and wish the best for yourself too..
They have stated publicly that they will purchase a big number of JF-17s, that wasn't a show of interest that was a promise statement..

Sir,

Neither it is a myth nor a propaganda---. It is the U S homeland security's requirement that every aircraft manufactured in the U S after 2007 has to have a ' disabling ' switch---any commercial aircraft flying in the U S or flying into the U S have to have ' kill ' switches---regardless of what nation they belong to.

All foreign aircraft for sale in the U S have to have a disabling switch since 2007.




Hi,

The only time the kill switch be used would be at times of sanctions---.

U S will not use the authority if there is a war between pakistan and india---.

No U S weapons producer would let its aircraft be shot down by the indians---.

They are all waiting to see a conflict between pakistan and india---so they can analyze how the F 16---its EW suite and its weapons & missiles fly against the indian equipment---.

So---rest assured---war with india---is a spectator war---everyone wants to know how his stuff did---even the swedes and the swiss---the french and the russians as well and the israelis as well.

Hi,
What if India gets the F-16 too?

 

[khanasifm]

These aircraft are.in storage and no.longer been flown so think the crashed aircraft will be no for the lot

My guess

 

[MastanKhan]

And what would have Pakistan bought if it had all that money?
SA manufactures a lot of the F-15 parts, they are starting to make Blackhawk helies at home,and many other heavy industrial projects.. the UAE is doing as much or more in High tech.. and military manufacturing..
It is time to learn to be happy for the fortune of others and wish the best for yourself too..
They have stated publicly that they will purchase a big number of JF-17s, that wasn't a show of interest that was a promise statement..


Hi,
What if India gets the F-16 too?

Hi,

If the black boxes come sealed from the U S---and india does not have any access to them---they will have the same kill switches---.

The U S military has it on its own aircraft---they are not nation specific---.

That's the problem with F-16, irrespective of approval / rejection from Capitol Hill.

PAF is forced to have human resource /infrasturcture available, all the time! ​

We may gain from 50% price cut on used F-16, but delays such as above... cost us in many other dimensions.

If we look at what PAF had been buying thus far.... that's really really OLD stuff. mostly 30-35 years old.
Reason, there are not many willing sellers to PAF, which is another debate.

No doubt, F-16 fits perfect in PAF and suits to its air defense requirements of limited offence, but wasting time and talent on uncertainty... is fetish.. is lunacy (if i may say).

Keep your focus on JF-17, try to have local assembly of engine. Or do something different, but for God's sake, stop buying F-16 scrap.
It would look even funnier, when F-16 production line in India would be pushing out new babies, while PAF would be visiting junkyards, with best talent in aviation.

There's a value in vision.... while generations of PAF were making their hair grey... running after bureaucracy in Capitol Hill, meanwhile India was running after same bureaucracy with its MRCA bait, in the process they met decision makers, while PAF remained involved with the desk staff for junk, which has no buyers otherwise.

If PAF need F-16, it should go after new or stop investing in infrastructure to keep up junk.
If approval of new F-16 doesn’t come within 6 months, stop making efforts for it. Send your existing F-16 to Turkey and close this chapter.

Hi,

Isn't that what our esteemed new member Naif Al Hilali has recommended---to be hunting the junkyards for the parts like the iranians do it for their F14's.