14 dead in shooting at San Bernardino, Calif., center for disabled; 3 suspects on loose

[Viper0011.]

This discussion, as I have said before, needs to wait until the investigation is complete, Sir..

The investigation and a discussion on an online forum have nothing to do with each other. The investigation focuses on material facts, i.e. someone's physical actions that cause violation of the law or hazards to the public safety.

What I am asking the Muslim members on here is, to help people like me, and others understand what the hell happens in these little radicalizing trips, that in a few weeks, people totally transform and become maniacs who'd kill the same people they've been living among for decades!!!! This is a discussion that is about what happens in Pakistan, KSA and other places, that brain washes people's head so fast that it makes no sense to a normal brain. This may be a philosophical discussion in terms of people sharing their ideas on here, from Pakistan and other Muslim countries. I consider it "information and speculation", which has no effect on any investigation as none of us are involved with it I would imagine.

Last but not least, this isn't the first time I've seen or heard a story like this where someone took a trip to their original homeland they left decades ago, and came back all radicalized. So I am trying to understand what happens overseas in these trips which brain washes these people's entire head and life and everything they've lived with and for, for decades!!

Shouldn't Obama Ask US embassy in Pakistan about why and how they issued visa to Tashfeen Malik?
They charge exorbitant amount of fees and do extended checks on pretty much everything over many months before issuing visas.
Even then if Tashfeen Malik slipped through there is a problem with US Embassy Islamabad.
Best thing would be to shut down the visa section and investigate embassy staff and procedure, instead of blaming Pakistan.
Because we are fed up.

WOW!!!! People like you, ALWAYS surprise me!!!! So its not a fault of the crazy mullah's and those insane religious "institutions" that "teach" such a violent version of Islam that a person can start to kill innocents and destroy their own little child's life by abandoning them to commit acts of terrorism!!!! But, somehow, its the American Embassy's fault??? WTF, really?

Is there a more insane version of shifting the blame from the responsible parties to the "US embassy" you can come up with????

Posts like yours make people think that Mr. Trump was right, and may be, the only solution is to end ALL visas and migration from Muslim countries to the US. I can't believe that during such big human tragedies, people like you don't want to point fingers at the insane religious mess that has caused the WOT and other conflicts over the last decade and a half (including thousands of people killed inside Pakistan by these terrorists, but you'd point fingers to places that have no relevance to the fact)!!

You are "fed up" with what? The freedom that crazy Mullahs enjoyed in that region for decades? And had so much strength to turn this entire region into a terrorism related mess for decades? If any corrective actions had been taken back in the 90's (when the US constantly told Pakistan that Talibans were NOT the strategic depth and that they would bite Pakistan and her culture and everything else), I think many of these terrorism type events, wouldn't have happened and many people (including people in the US and Pakistan), would be alive today!!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Neighbors know their area the best. That is why there is the "See something, Say something" program.

Working more hours than normal in your garage when you have a project to do isn't unusual, and neither is the frequency of package deliveries, depending upon the season or, going back to the garage again, when someone is working on a project and has supplies delivered to their home.

Your suggestion of how the 'See something, say something program' should have been used (working in the garage and frequency of packages) is ridiculous to say the least.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Working more hours than normal in your garage when you have a project to do isn't unusual, and neither is the frequency of package deliveries, depending upon the season or, going back to the garage again, when someone is working on a project and has supplies delivered to their home.

Your suggestion of how the 'See something, say something program' should have been used (working in the garage and frequency of packages) is ridiculous to say the least.

I think they meant they were probably doing stuff at 1am or something. The guy did fix up old cars so that wouldn't be weird.

 

[deckingraj]

. So I am trying to understand what happens overseas in these trips which brain washes these people's entire head and life and everything they've lived with and for, for decades!!

Common sense says that it can't be one trip to homeland that brain wash these bigots...it is simply not possible...The anger has to be old and these mullahs provide them a medium to vent out that anger....I can't think of any other reason...Also these days it is very hard to differentiate between propaganda and real facts...Media is sold out and that fact is not helping either....On top of that there are many wars going on around the globe with lot of conflicting interests...a perfect recipe for ISIL and other pigs to keep growing....i am afraid this has to be a long and ugly fight....

 

[kalu_miah]

@Viper0011. you may want to look at this thread, it may answer some of your questions:

How to stop Islamic extremism: Global Fiqh Council (GFC)

The root of Islamic extremism starts with Wahabism/Salafism and the sponsors of this ideology, Saudi Kingdom, is being protected by the US. Unless the US and West decide to uproot this ideology from its root in Saudi Arabia and deny it any funding source, "Islamic" terrorism in some shape or form will continue.

Salafi movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
60 million Salafi's must be converted back to mainstream Sunni Islam. Salafism must be banned worldwide and this can be done by Muslim scholars using the concept I mentioned in GFC. Bombing and killing people like ISIS but doing nothing about the source in Gulf kingdoms will continue to be ineffective.

Not all Salafi/Wahabi's are terrorists, but almost all Muslim terrorists are Salafi's.

 

[Bang Galore]

First Photo of Female San Bernardino Shooter Tashfeen Malik

• By Rhonda Schwartz
• Brian Ross
• JUSTIN FISHEL
• Lee Ferran

Dec 4, 2015, 5:48 PM ET

Obtained by ABC News
Tashfeen Malik
Since news today that San Bernardino shooter Tashfeen Malik is said to have posted a pledge of allegiance to ISIS around the time she and her husband killed 14 people Wednesday, the world’s attention has shifted to the mysterious mother-turned-murderer.

Malik, a photograph of whom was obtained by ABC News, was born in Pakistan but moved to Saudi Arabia 25 years ago when she was about four years old. When she was older, she likely moved back and forth between Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, according to a source close to the Saudi Arabian government.

In 2007, she returned to Pakistan to study at Bahuddin Zakri University in Multan and stayed until 2012, according to a Pakistani intelligence official. She was said to be a brilliant student and was not known to have religious or political affiliation while there.

Malik encountered Syed Rizwan Farook, an American of Pakistani origin born in Chicago, on a dating website, an attorney for Farook’s family told reporters today. U.S. officials said Farook could have met Malik or her family in Saudi Arabia during a trip there in the fall of 2013. After another trip in July 2014, Farook returned to the U.S. with Malik in tow. The couple was married the next month.

Malik came to the U.S. on what is known as a “fiancé” visa, which allows an American fiancé to petition for his or her partner’s temporary entry before marriage. For the visa application, the address she listed in her Pakistani hometown, ABC News discovered today, does not exist. Malik received a her Green Card this summer, U.S. officials said.

Six months ago, the couple had a baby daughter and named her according to a naming convention more common to Arab families, rather than in the typical Pakistani manner.

How Malik purportedly became radicalized enough to post the alleged pledge of allegiance to ISIS and help kill more than a dozen people in a quiet California town is still a mystery.

The official close to the Saudi Arabian government said that Saudi intelligence officials did not have her on any of their watch lists and she did not appear to have any link to extremists in the region. Neither Malik or Farook were on the FBI’s radar in the U.S., officials said.

FBI Special Agent David Bowdich said today it’s also unclear who in the relationship led the other down the violent path.

“I don’t know the answer, whether she influenced him or not. Being a husband myself, we’re all influenced to an extent. But I don’t know the answer,” he said.

FBI Director James Comey said the Bureau is still investigating whether ISIS inspired the attack, but said there is “no indication” they were part of a larger network. No other suspects are being sought, though Bowdich didn’t rule out the potential for later arrests.

Today lawyers for the Farook family cast doubt on the reports of the ISIS pledge and said that there hasn’t been any real evidence that the couple has any “extremist tendencies.”

“None of the family knew of him as being extreme, aggressive or having any extreme religious views,” one of the attorneys said.

The other noted that Malik was very soft-spoken and conservative -- so much that Farook's brothers never saw her face, due to the full burqa she always wore in public.

As the FBI continues to investigate, Nada Bakos, a former CIA analyst, told ABC News she would not be surprised if Malik had been ISIS-inspired. “Terrorism is not gender-specific,” she said.

A recent report by George Washington University’s Center for Cyber and Homeland Security said that of the 71 individuals arrested in the U.S. since March 2014 with purported ties to ISIS, 10 were female.

Bakos, whose work with the CIA concentrated on al Qaeda in Iraq (AQI), the precursor to ISIS, told ABC News she often tracked female extremists for the Agency and noted that AQI infamously used a female suicide bomber in a failed suicide attack in Jordan in 2005 – the woman had hidden a bomb under her dress, but it failed to detonate.

“Men don’t have a monopoly on terrorism or conducting violent acts,” she said. “At this point, in the evolution of terrorism, it wouldn’t be surprising to see a woman take an operational role.”

This report has been updated with new information from the Farook family attorney about how Malik and Farook met.

What We Know About Female San Bernardino Shooter Tashfeen Malik - ABC News

@jaunty, @ito

First picture of terrorist Tashfeen Malik who pledged allegiance to ISIS before killing 14 in party attack with radicalized American husband - and who was so devout her in-laws had never seen her face | Daily Mail Online

San Bernardino shooter Tashfeen Malik pledged allegiance to ISIS, passed DHS screening - reports — RT USA

 

[illusion8]

Yes, thank you for that, because there will be lots of opportunity for real deep soul-searching for all of us in the coming days due to this incident.

This isn't going to be the first and isn't going to be the last - there are thousands of sleeper cells / dormant terrorists in most countries working silently and planning innovative attacks.

Europe just got deluged with a few thousands fresh recruits apart from the many that they already had.

 

[Bang Galore]

You have to consider the possibility that the 'marriage' was entered into solely for the purpose of getting an accomplice into the US under spouse/fiance rules, and the 'child' was conceived unintentionally or perhaps as part of a twisted attempt to 'replace' the potential loss of a son for Farooq's mother.

The amount of time Farooq spent abroad doesn't suggest enough time to become proficient at explosives, so the 'wife' was likely the individual assigned those tasks.

That's some seriously messed up stuff......

 

[Maira La]

@Viper0011. you may want to look at this thread, it may answer some of your questions:

How to stop Islamic extremism: Global Fiqh Council (GFC)

The root of Islamic extremism starts with Wahabism/Salafism and the sponsors of this ideology, Saudi Kingdom, is being protected by the US. Unless the US and West decide to uproot this ideology from its root in Saudi Arabia and deny it any funding source, "Islamic" terrorism in some shape or form will continue.

Bombing and killing people like ISIS but doing nothing about the source in Gulf kingdoms will continue to be ineffective.

Not all Salafi/Wahabi's are terrorists, but almost all Muslim terrorists are Salafi's.

What happened kalu_miah? Not on good terms with your Saudi brothers anymore?

@JUBA @Saif al-Arab You've just lost a well wisher.

 

[VCheng]

..........

What I am asking the Muslim members on here is, to help people like me, and others understand what the hell happens in these little radicalizing trips, that in a few weeks, people totally transform and become maniacs who'd kill the same people they've been living among for decades!!!! This is a discussion that is about what happens in Pakistan, KSA and other places, that brain washes people's head so fast that it makes no sense to a normal brain. ..........

The answer to your questions is clear but unpalatable. The radicalized maniacs are created by the same religious ideology that the majority acquiesces to.

Working more hours than normal in your garage when you have a project to do isn't unusual, and neither is the frequency of package deliveries, depending upon the season or, going back to the garage again, when someone is working on a project and has supplies delivered to their home.

Your suggestion of how the 'See something, say something program' should have been used (working in the garage and frequency of packages) is ridiculous to say the least.

Ridiculous or good civic sense? I will stand by my stance here.

This isn't going to be the first and isn't going to be the last - there are thousands of sleeper cells / dormant terrorists in most countries working silently and planning innovative attacks.

Europe just got deluged with a few thousands fresh recruits apart from the many that they already had.

There will be no more than a handful of such terrorists presently in USA. Europe is different in this regard.

That's some seriously messed up stuff......

It is also an indication how good screening has become that such desperate measures were taken, and even these will now be stopped with the lessons learned from this murderous couple.

 

[iPhone]

What's this Lal Masjid angle being brought it now?

The guy's family did press conference and shifted the entire blame onto the girl. I think they were both radicalized.

 

[Azad-Kashmiri]

It's extremely dishonest of you to construct a scenario unsupported by the complete set of known facts, then use that to "prove" your contention.

Yes, I know that for Pakistanis the truth-is-stuff-you-pick-out-from-a-cafeteria-line approach is deemed sufficient, but that's an indication of the depth of corruption in Pakistani society.

Read the article it makes no mention of any religious motives.

I know in the Talmud it tells you that you can lie and cheat the goyam, but I'm finding it difficult to accept how two people can MURDER 14 INNOCENT people. It doesn't make sense! This is wrong and tragic for the families of the victims. Total barbarism. No other word for it!

 

[Tridibans]

It's OK, he needs to get his annual perverted anti-Pakistan kick out of highlighting any and all possible terrorism connections to Pakistan.

It's part of the Indian narrative which has gone into hyper-drive under the blossoming bosom of their 56-DD Prime Minister.

I still don't understand why you guys are after Indians ? Whatever be our shortcomings, we are not terrorists. Let alone bombing and shooting on the streets of Paris or Sydney or New York in the name of our Hindu gods. Last I heard, there are more Indians abroad than Pakistanis. SO why only Pakistanis get so easily radicalized and not the Hindutva/ RSS extremists whom you guys day in and out proclaim as terrorists?

If at all, 1 man was killed for eating beef andf all Hindus were bad. Whereas in the name of your religion, perhaps daily 1000 people are killed in Iraq, Pakistan, Syria, by Boko Haram/ ISIS and now the new trend.... well off Pakistanis/ Middle eastern killing random Europeans/ Americans.

Why don't Hindutva Indians staying in USA or Paris go on killing people?

Food for thought. But instead of correcting your mistakes, you people are after Indians.

Let it be. Soon the west would look upon you guys more suspiciously than ever before. While in the meantime, you people can keep on fighting with us Idnians.

 

[VCheng]

What's this Lal Masjid angle being brought it now?

The guy's family did press conference and shifted the entire blame onto the girl. I think they were both radicalized.

The wife was Mullah Burka's disciple.

 

[Azad-Kashmiri]

Since news today that San Bernardino shooter Tashfeen Malik is said to have posted a pledge of allegiance to ISIS around the time she and her husband killed 14 people Wednesday, the world’s attention has shifted to the mysterious mother-turned-murderer.

Why are people so easily led by this fake caliph? 120+ Islamic Scholars have given a fatwa against his UNISLAMIC state. It is a CULT, not a state! People read through the fatwa on EVERY point he has violated in ISLAMIC LAW!

Letter to Baghdadi - Open Letter to BaghdadiOpen Letter to Baghdadi

Please spread the word and lets stop this terrorism.