12th Oct; Black day in Pakistan's political history !

[Jungibaaz]

Democracy had equal chance .. in fact Politicians ruled the country more then the Army .. so the fact about not getting a chance is nothing more then a BS .. who Appointed Musharaf ( even though he was not legally capable for it ) Who Appointed Zia ( even though he was a Junior ) .. Politicians screwed every time & Blamed it on Army .. even today what happened Last Five Year .. what is Happening Now .. what do you think will happen in Next 5 years ? ...

So Please Spare me the old mambo jambo that Politicians never had a chance .. they got plenty of Chance .. and they messed it up every time . even now .. 7/10 people in the streets want Army to come & Kick these Politicians out ..

You are misquoting me and misunderstanding my point.

Politicians have been given a chance and have failed miserably, dictators have been given a chance too, but even they did many things wrong, not least, complete disrespect of the country's constitution, but yes, in the general prespective we've prospered far more under dictators.

So, you are right in that politicians have been given a chance.
But my point is that democracy, hasn't been given a chance.

Just because you've had on and off, incomplete civilian governments doesn't mean you've seen democracy. Many of the prerequisites for democracy to work have not been met until very recently. The media was never free, how can you expect an electoral process to work of the media works for who's in charge.

You cannot claim that you've seen it in action, because you really haven't yet.
And like I said, there is no quick fix, we Pakistanis need to learn that nothing is free and painless, the world is cruel, you've got to give if you want to take.

Both have been given equal chance whether it is democracy or dictatorship during 66 years and unfortunately dictators have better served for people ................

Democracy hasn't. But yes, I agree, dictators performed far better than the civilian governments.

 

[Leader]

as a pakistani[/B] i would choose our military dictatorships of corrupt civilians any day!
until our population is educated and most of our fellow pakistanis are out of poverty i think pakistan should stick to a military dictatorship if possible.

And you will only be a traitor of Pakistan cause if you were a Pakistani you would live by the constitution; the law.

due to this day pakistan got to see 8 wonderful years for economy, image of Pakistan .... although he was illegitimate President.

not the image but yes good 8 economic years in punjab and karachi, credit to pervaiz elahi and mqm's mustefa kamal as well.

 

[F.O.X]

You are misquoting me and misunderstanding my point.

Politicians have been given a chance and have failed miserably, dictators have been given a chance too, but even they did many things wrong, not least, complete disrespect of the country's constitution, but yes, in the general prespective we've prospered far more under dictators.

So, you are right in that politicians have been given a chance.
But my point is that democracy, hasn't been given a chance.

Just because you've had on and off, incomplete civilian governments doesn't mean you've seen democracy. Many of the prerequisites for democracy to work have not been met until very recently. The media was never free, how can you expect an electoral process to work of the media works for who's in charge.

You cannot claim that you've seen it in action, because you really haven't yet.
And like I said, there is no quick fix, we Pakistanis need to learn that nothing is free and painless, the world is cruel, you've got to give if you want to take.



Democracy hasn't. But yes, I agree, dictators performed far better than the civilian governments.

I am a big fan of democracy , dont get me Wrong .. I want it .. but not is a country where 80% of population is illiterate .. who care more about their 2 time meal then who come in power .. Democracy is only Best where People know what is best for them .. and dont vote on the basis of relationship .

And our constitution is useless , every one who comes into power , makes amendments to suit their taste .. General public has no knowledge what is going on .. and they care less about who is in power .. they want food & a place to live .. education for their children & a good standard of living ..

If you assure me this Democracy can provide this in next 10 years I am all up for it ..

 

[Jungibaaz]

I am a big fan of democracy , dont get me Wrong .. I want it .. but not is a country where 80% of population is illiterate .. who care more about their 2 time meal then who come in power .. Democracy is only Best where People know what is best for them .. and dont vote on the basis of relationship .

And our constitution is useless , every one who comes into power , makes amendments to suit their taste .. General public has no knowledge what is going on .. and they care less about who is in power .. they want food & a place to live .. education for their children & a good standard of living ..

If you assure me this Democracy can provide this in next 10 years I am all up for it ..

I agree with everything you've said. But I am firm that we will learn eventually.

My personal experience is that Pakistanis never learn until they are forced to. They wont budge until they hit rock bottom.
And so far, they've always chosen the easy way out. If we support dictators again, the outcome will be same across a longer time frame, dictator removed (bare in mind the Arab spring, this time it may not be so peaceful in Pakistan), army distances itself and the same corrupt loonies we call politicians take charge.

Nothing will change.

Although it will take longer for Pakistan, when change does come, the real change will be through democracy.
A country is it's people, and the only way you have significant permanent change, is if the people themselves bring about the change which is what you get through democracy.

I can't make any promises or predictions, 10, 20, 50 years, but it will happen. And we'll never look back.

 

[Amaa'n]

Not the fault of democracy if you understand it, but of our own choices.. if you wish, you need to put the house in order,by making better choices collectively, rather than to seek submission to the people with weapons who see opportunity to seize power and destabilize the State system with their adventurism, which reciprocate into weakening the State and its institutional harmony

care to point towards an example???
Democracy will work only if we give it time to nourish - I agree on that, and I agree that WE did not give enough time to democracy and always opted for a shortcut.
Do not blame it all on Generals.

Mind separation of power and balance of power, let alone the shame it brings to Pakistan in international community.

lets just compare how world saw you in 2004 and how they see you now, and I leave it for you to decide what was brought shame to us - Our failure to counter Terrorism by not forming consensus or incomptency of the ineffective leadership.....
Shame is brought upon YOU every minute world praise Malala, as WE failed to give education to the Youth....
That my friend is SHAME

 

[Leader]

care to point towards an example???
Democracy will work only if we give it time to nourish - I agree on that, and I agree that WE did not give enough time to democracy and always opted for a shortcut.
Do not blame it all on Generals.

lets just compare how world saw you in 2004 and how they see you now, and I leave it for you to decide what was brought shame to us - Our failure to counter Terrorism by not forming consensus or incomptency of the ineffective leadership.....
Shame is brought upon YOU every minute world praise Malala, as WE failed to give education to the Youth....
That my friend is SHAME

okay- I dont blame the Generals, they saw an opportunity to rape and raped..cannot really blame the rapist here!

the way world saw us was as failed state, which has no future, it will end in 2010 etc etc... now we are seen as responsible state, ready to play its int role for betterment of its humans, least chances in democracy to see our State future as another Yugoslavia!

 

[Amaa'n]

now we are seen as responsible state, ready to play its int role for betterment of its humans, least chances in democracy to see our State future as another Yugoslavia!

@Hyperion @jaibi @F.O.X

 

[474474]

12 oct was a good day because Musharraf showed ganja his aukat and it's also my gf's birthday

 

[Patriots]