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120,000 Indian troops for Afghanistan or hot air

I'd argue that unless it's the intended purpose of such aid any diversion for the purpose of strengthening your conventional defenses elsewhere would be an illegal misappropriation.
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I am referring to the Orions, TOW's, F-16's and any other conventional capabilities not presumably directly linked to the WoT (though the F-16's with the new sniper pods are expected to be put into service for CAS etc. in the WoT).

I am arguing that the Bush Administration knowingly allowed utilization of the some part of the aid for capabilities such as the above to address issues, to a certain degree, related to a balance of power with India.
 
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That's not the point. Once airplanes piled into buildings, it was a near foregone conclusion that war would come to Afghanistan. Most predicted with ease the egress of A.Q. and taliban into Pakistan's FATA and Baluchistan. It was inevitable given historic precedent set twenty-one years earlier.

The war was of the US's choice. I stil maintain that given more time the Taliban could have been convinced to hand over AQ suspects, or some arrangement for trial in a country acceptable to all parties arranged.

Without the US presence in Afghanistan, it would not have been so easy to radicalize and motivate people to join the Taliban AQ cause. Your presence in Afghanistan has a direct bearing on the scale of the AQ and Taliban problem in Pakistan.

Whether the invasion was inevitable or not in your views is not my point, it is the fact that the US invasion caused the series of events that we find our selves facing in Pakistan today.
 
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If the u s had not taken a laid back casual approach in the early days of its war in afghanistan----the al qaeda would have been a thing of the past and there would be no u s forces in afghanistan by now.

Bin Laden and his cohorts alongwith Mullah omar would have been killed by american troops and rest would have been history----. The age old adage holds true to this day---" if you want to do the job right the first time, you got to do it yourself ".

US have not tried to catch or kill them otherwise they have to pay very heavy price for seek and search operation in 12000 feet high mountains.Casualties rate of US will be more then 10 times even they us air support,Kargil war is very recent example to understand.

Pakistan is paying a very heavy price for the incompetence and in-decision making abilities of the u s millitary junta. The u s screwed up on the northern side of the border and pakistanis screwed up on the southern side of afghan border. Paks should have neutralized the incoming taliban and al qaeda with a venegeance----as if there was no tomorrow.

Sadly pakistan is paying a very heavy price for not doing its part of the job in time and not understanding the significance of the threat.

If Mullah Omar was a fool to let the americans raid afghanistan----pakistan had the oppurtunity to shorten the stay. But the fools that there are---they always want to make a vietnam for the u s forces----forgetting what happened to the native vietnamese population in the process.If there is truth in the main article or if it is a lie----the fact remains that no foreign power wants to see a nuclear pakistan prosper and flourish.

Afghans love wars ,they think best source of income is through mal -e-ghanimat,they are happy even US want to stay in afghanistan for thirty years more.

Pakistan army is actually too big army ,poor pakistan cant afford it .They need adventure continue in this area for justification of their size and expenditure.Retired Pakistan army generals are richest in the world.
 
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I'd say that's actually the attitude displayed by those Pakistanis who insist they've no war of their own to fight and only are engaged at the behest of America. 180 degrees off, stud.

Well, I’m not one of those people and I certainly go out of my way to correct that misconception in fellow Pakistanis, something you’d have noticed if you didn’t consider me primarily an object to vent your personal frustrations. Or maybe because you're the other side of the same coin, and have more in common with those Pakistanis than with me...

We went to war with your neighbor. Their political leadership, military, and A.Q. affiliates chose your turf on which to hide and did so almost immediately. Hardly unpredictable but to judge by the P.A.'s actions until Bajaur you'd sure think otherwise.

I am not one of those who agree with your contention that the PA has been doing nothing before Bajour and that a 1000 plus of our servicemen just dropped dead of their own accord. I’d be willing to take you on about that any day.

This is disgusting. Kasrkin, were you a decision-maker it would be tantamount to an admission of guilt. Your subterfuge completely attacks the transparency of freely-offered aid.

Well it’s a good thing that I’m not a decision maker eh? And for the sake of the US I’m certainly glad that you’re not either in light of the fact that you are given to call for the nuking of our region from time to time.

I said nothing about transparency, not one thing. In fact I’m all for it, it would help contain the damage being done by uneducated opinion holders much like yourself. If you can’t engage my argument, don’t invent your own in an effort to discredit me. My view is clear, the US should be helping Pakistan help themselves, not helping us help you. This moaning and bitching has to stop. US interests lie in Pakistan’s long term stability and prosperity.

You may decline the terms and conditions if so specified along with the aid itself but illegally diverting it's use for unintended purposes deserves censure and cessation-plain and simple

I never said anything about ‘illegally’ diverting anything, it’s the ‘terms and conditions’ that I have a quarry with. Terms and conditions which by the way, I have seen no concrete/legal mention of but you seem to be accusing us of breaking anyway. Even trying to imagine some would be pathetic…“Only for use against AQ/Taliban” or “Only for deployment in the NWFP”. Almost all equipment intended for the AQ/Taliban can be used against a conventional army…and will be used if the security of Pakistan so requires. The Pakistan military is a primary player in the WoT, therefore American aid to us can be termed a world US WoT assistance fund or whatever...however doesn't legally mean that we have to listen to your every whim as to where and how and when it should be used.

If your attitude reflects the views of the Pakistani goverment and military, I'd sincerely hope for that aid to be immediately cut.

I remember that you and I had an argument some time back, but there was no need to take it so personally…I enjoyed it. I have seen this trend in all your posts, cut this inconsequential personal BS…it doesn’t lend credibility to your opinion except maybe in the mind of the most primitive observers. And it certainly doesn’t hurt my feelings either.

Corruption apparently is commonplace in Pakistan among the political and military elite.

Now I would love to see some irrefutable proof on that, preferably along the lines of PAKISTAN ARMY THE DEN OF CORRUPTION… something very apparent as you said.

I'd be eager for the "alliance's" collapse.

I’m sure you’d love that, but you’ll screw up your country just as well as mine.

For the sake of your nation, I'll hope that your diplomats and military officers aren't dominated by those of similar ilk to yourself

You got the words right out of my mouth. I like America, I have trouble relating the people I met there to the likes of you. For the sake of both our countries, I fervently hope people like you don’t make commission.
 
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US have not tried to catch or kill them otherwise they have to pay very heavy price for seek and search operation in 12000 feet high mountains.Casualties rate of US will be more then 10 times even they us air support,Kargil war is very recent example to understand.



Afghans love wars ,they think best source of income is through mal -e-ghanimat,they are happy even US want to stay in afghanistan for thirty years more.

Pakistan army is actually too big army ,poor pakistan cant afford it .They need adventure continue in this area for justification of their size and expenditure.Retired Pakistan army generals are richest in the world.


Oh please keep quiet and go to the Taliban, my friend. PAK isn't so poor and bad like you always mention it.
 
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Oh please keep quiet and go to the Taliban, my friend. PAK isn't so poor and bad like you always mention it.

Please read carefully ,who said pakistan is bad .

By poor , i mean we have limited resources ,so we should reduce our non development expenditure .We should concertrate on high tech weapon development for defence rather then to increase the number of armed personel.
 
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Please read carefully ,who said pakistan is bad .

By poor , i mean we have limited resources ,so we should reduce our non development expenditure .We should concertrate on high tech weapon development for defence rather then to increase the number of armed personel.

i think we are doing precisely that for the past few years despite being threatened on both sides of Pakistan.
 
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If USA army could not achieve is goal in Afghanistan I doubt what will India do there. Another thing where would India bring 120,000 army from.
 
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Funny how speculations and rumors appearing on the pages of a private, non-governmental website provided enough fodder to get Pakistanis so jumpy that 32 posts have been made trying to read a non-event

Funny how, some people make such absurd and stupid comments on the article that they post themselves for opening a new thread........
Did you put the same article from RATSHAKE forum in one of your threads or not?????? If you dont like that non governmental and private website (which no sensible person can like, but same cannot be said about you) then stop posting its articles next time around.
This is a discussion forum and if you don't have the requisite intellect to comment on something in a positive spirit then just put up or shut up :lol:
 
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Well guys I doubt the authenticity of this news. But if it’s true, then, this is a great conspiracy of the American imperialist forces (including Israel, Australia and Britain) to use the huge number of fascist indian military personnel in the war against Islamic and Communist countries. The way America uses the presence of zionist israel in the Middle East is going to be repeated in South Asia to disrupt the balance of power as well as peace, in a broader sense, in South Asia. The political relationship between india and China is not good as is also not between Pakistan and india. And USA knows that very well. USA has already made india as its puppet or stooge, particularly after the Indo-US Nuke deal. The congress party of india in particular has good terms with the leadership of USA. Also india serves many interests of American economy particularly providing a potential market. Recently, india has appeared to be a prospective customer for US made arms and ammunitions. Another point, though seems to be less important, is that many Non-Resident indians are working on US soil and their presence might have some influence on the US govt. If india is the ally of USA, automatically israel and Britain have to maintain a friendly relation with india. Thus an evil alliance is in work. This is just a part of a larger game plan against all anti-US forces (including Communism of China and Islam of the Middle East as well as South Asian countries). Now, why they are anti-US? Because they are anti-neo-liberal free market oriented Capitalist policy. Islam and Communism are together of a part of the obstacle that intrinsically resists the development of Capitalist globalization which means irresistibly promoting the culture and ideology of consumerism. The aggression of Pepsi-cola Nike-Adidas, packaged within Hindu Zionist culture, is no way meant to bring good for all, please understand, it is not even bi-polar, rather unipolar where the Dallas-Wall mart reigns. It will commoditize everything religion, family values, moral issues, our women’s sexuality and everything for sale in the open profit gearing market.

Iran has long been a target of US aggression since the time of the gulf war. And Pakistan’s necessity to the US for Afghanistan operation is going to be replaced by bringing Indian troops to Afghanistan (as the news indicates) as tension escalates between india and Pakistan and Pakistan’s declaration of shifting her troops (which are now deployed along the Western border to fight the Taliban forces and safeguarding US forces) to the eastern border between Pakistan and India. USA is thus going to make india as its stronger South Asian ally and under the guise of Nuke deal is actually going to make indian soil as a strong base of US military. Because, this might create a pressure for China as US will definitely interfere with the Tibet, Nepal and Burma affairs in the name of bringing so-called peace, justice and order. Earlier India hesitated as US was eager to intervene in the Kashmir issue, but this time, I guess, a secret deal has taken place between india and America regarding the Kashmir issue. The huge number of indian troops in Afghanistan will also help USA to gain an upper hand dealing with Iran. As also the Arabian and indian oceans are going to be used for the US naval force for sea aviation and refueling its superior air power, as we noticed how Kuwait has been used during the invasion on Iraq. There are many other favorable points that USA is reconsidering right now. Therefore, we all can see, economically, strategically (in terms of military advantages) and also politically how decisive and favorable india’s position as a secured shelter is for the US presence in South Asia. Moreover, the tone of the newly elected Bangladeshi government’s voice seems be to some extent pro-fascist aggressive forces and Bangladesh’s support to the evil axis should be taken with serious caution.

What are india’s interests? Economically it is relatively and in a short run good for india as it is to some extent profitable to be a puppet of a God father like the US. It can draw some foreign investments with US dollars as india can provide cheap labor resource to IT and other companies based upon Out Sourcing Businesses. Though, Obama has claimed that he would check the ever increasing rate of out sourcing for domestic purposes. In another way, being a puppet of the USA, India is trying to gain prestige in the world. But in the long run, such alliance is not good for india’ citizens and particularly the under privileged oppressed people.

Well, it is politically (particularly in foreign affairs) fascist hindu india will gain an upper hand compared to Pakistan. India has seen this invitation for sending troops to Afghanistan as a great opportunity to deal both with Pakistan and China. In case of Pakistan, the presence and alliance of the US will be used as a pressure against Pakistan and China always on one hand, on the other, sending such a considerable number of troops and deploying them along the western border of Pakistan will be like an encirclement of Pakistan because then both eastern border as well as western border of Pakistan will be threatened by the presence of Indian army. Pakistan will need to manage both sides, eastern as well as western borders and then in the name of aerial surgical strikes on terrorist camps on Pakistani soil, fascist imperialist india will violate Pakistan’s sovereignty and even might invade the parts Kashmir that belong to Pakistan. US will be supposed to manage the Pakistani leadership and ensure that Pakistan will not resist the indian invasion or at least not use WMD. Though in reality, US will be looking for the sale more arms and ammunitions to both Pakistan and india, since this economic recession requires a war for the sale of stored weapons. Imperialist indian army’s presence in Afghanistan is crucial because india is more afraid of the fidayeen forces than of Pakistani armed forces as Taliban commander said a few weeks ago, if Pakistan is attacked, they will fight for Pakistan’s sovereignty. Fascist imperialist india and israel jointly perform the aerial bombing in Afghanistan where as in Kashmir hills, india alone might carry out the surgical air strikes. This is perhaps the synopsis of the plan or conspiracy.

What Pakistan can do here as preventive measures? Prevention is better than cure. Well what Pakistan is supposed to do at this juncture is more than prevention. To defeat such a huge imperialist country as India is, there must be a good plan much before india goes for offensive measures and it is to be an effort to make this rogue state (india) engaged in dealing with its internal problems. This rogue state cannot be defeated from outside, until it has weakened itself from within. The north eastern insurgents of this rogue state should be given full cooperation and also the Maoist rebels so that it will be busy in handling the north eastern situation with full attention. Some neighbors like Nepal are not happy with the treatment india practices and so all anti-indian forces, religious, regional and political should have well coordination between them since the enemy is a common enemy and is growing powerful by outside help. Pakistan at the same time should develop her relation with China and Iran (as well as other anti-US Communist countries), not only in terms of defense but also culturally and socially to gain a massive mass support from China and Iran, which will ensure that citizens’ demands will create a pressure on the governments to go for defending Pakistan in times of crisis. What I want to say is clearly that Pakistan must ensure anyhow that China will defend her if she is attacked by foreign forces. Because it is China that can pose a major threat to the imperialist hinduist indian rogue state, while Iran can easily deal with Israel. Now india’s domestic problem will also prevent india from taking any final decision since india has the electoral politics where both anti-US and pro-US elements are present. Here the friendly terms of Pakistan with other Communist countries will play the role of a strong anti-US public opinion and a polarization will occur. Public opinion matters, because it will then legitimize Pakistan using even WMD against her enemy as a last resort. But initially it is Pakistan’s duty not to defend india’s continuously demonizing and stigmatizing Pakistan as the epicenter of terror but also to take counter action and demonize and stigmatize india as a problem to the balance and power, peace and order in South Asia. In order to defeat a Kautilya there must be another Kautilya.
 
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i ll believe it when i see it

By the way their is a game going on in afghanistan and its rules and boundaries are predefined . If any party weather the US RAW ISI Iran European powers or Russia , brek that boundary it will be doomsday in Afghanistan . Everybody knows this .
 
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Plzz don't get BP about this.
Not gonna happen.
Govts will have to risk their popularity for such a move.
 
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Do you seriously wish to argue that Pakistan doesn't suffer under extensive corruption within it's government and military? There seems a substantial argument otherwise.

Do you seriously wish to argue that it's America's obligation to provide your nation with civil and military aid without question and only this attitude can affirm our status as allies?

So long as my government deems that it's in our interests to provide Pakistan with aid I suppose that we shall. As I said, your choices seem to be accepting or declining that aid. Our choice seems to be continuing that aid or not. Making that decision will depend upon the accrued gains against the costs.

Here's the latest summary of direct overt aid in all forms from the U.S. to Pakistan since 2002-

Direct Overt U.S. Aid and Military Reimbursements To Pakistan FY2002-2009 (est.)-CRS

A.M.'s correct that reimbursements total some 60% over the last seven years. I note the spike in CSF funds from last year to this. Is that the costs related to Bajaur? Hmmm...that seems a lot of money for such inactivity over a seven year period and ONE operation of note.

Probably costs a lot to transfer those forces to the west and build heretofore non-existant facilities. Yup. Some good construction contracts I bet buried in there.

I'll say this- the document certainly puts to rest where the money is allocated and when. Let the debating begin.
 
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India offers US 120,000 troops for Afganistan.

That's a lot.

Anyways, watch out for friendly fires.
 
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