12 best tanks in world

[Penguin]

Gun fire results of Chally were worst among all the Western tanks.

Anyhow, HESH is outdated round good for nothing:

Against tanks its weak for low penetration.
Against buildings its weak because it has a weak cap and no delayed explosion.
Against light vehicles its weak because of low velocity.
Against infantry its weak because of low fragmentation.

- Who said HESH is the best round? You skirted the range issue, which is why I mentioned HESH..

- The tanks in the 2002 (!) Greek tank trials the M1A2 Abrams, Leopard 2A5, Leclerc, Challenger 2E, T-80UE and T-84. Of these six vehicles, out of a maximum possible operational and technical score of 100%, best performing were: Leopard 2A5, 78.65%; M1A2 Abrams, 72.21%; Leclerc, 72.03%; and Challenger 2E, 69.19%. Next was the T-84 and last the T-80UE.

These were the assignments:
Test 1 : Slalom to evaluate mobility.
Test 2 : 1000km run.
Test 3 : 50km by night.
Test 4 : 100km with stabilisation enabled.
Test 5 : Emergency brake (Norm was 25 emergency brake).
Test 6 : Optics stabilisation.
Test 7 : Target detection.
Test 8 : Target detection by night.
Test 9 : First round hit probability (@1600m; target: 2,3x2,3m still).
Test 10 : Firing on the move on fix target (40km/h; @1000-1200m; target : 2,3x2,3m still; 10 APFSDS).
Test 11 : Evaluation of the precision on still target (still; @2000m; target : 2,3x2,3m still; 10 APFSDS).
Test 12 : Evaluation of the precision of firing on the move on still targets (40km/h; same conditions as before).
Test 13 : Probability of first round hit by night (still; @1000m; target : 2,3x2,3m 1 APFSDS).
Test 14 : Probability of first round hit on the move by night on still target (40km/h; same).
Test 15 : Evaluation of the precision on still targets by night (still; @1500m; target : 2,3x2,3m still; 10 APFSDS).
Test 16 : Evaluation of the precision of firing on the move by night on still targets (40km/h; same).
Test 17 : Probability of first round hit on moving targets (still; @1000m; target : 2,3x4,6m 20-30km/h 1 APFSDS).
Test 18 : Probability of first round hit on the move on moving target (40km/h; @1000-1200m; same).
Test 19 : Evaluation of the precision on moving targets (still; @1500m; target : 2,3x4,6m 20-30km/h; 10 APFSDS).
Test 20 : Evaluation of the precision of firing on the move on still targets (40km/h; @1500-1700m; same).
Test XX : Rate of fire for 25 ammunitions (still; @1500m; 2 targets : 2,3x2,3m still angle between the two 100mils; 1min; 25 APFSDS; pourcentage at least 90%).
Test 26 : Emergency firing mode.
Test 27 : Hunter-killer.
Test 28 : Hunter-killer by night.
Test 29 : Evaluation of the maximum range (4 APFSDS).
Test 30 : Shooting the coaxial.
Test 31 : Fording 2,15m depth.
Test 32 : Smoke screen device.
Test 34 : Changing tracks.
Test 35 : Changing track pads.
Test 36 : Taking out the powerpack.
Test 37 : Taking out the power supply unit.
Test 38 : Taking out the coaxial.
Test 39 : Changing barrel of the coax.

Of 39 items, only 17 deal with firing the main gun. Wich ones exactly would say something about the quality of the gun and just that gun (i.e. not different ammunitions, or differences in fire control or turret drives of stabilization systerms)? What are exactly the scores on those items?

Some details: Greek Tank Trials - STEELBEASTS.COM FORUM

Besides, considering the Chally 1 did rather well in Desert Storm in 1991 and Chally 2 did rather well in ENduring Freedom in 2003, who really cares about the Greek army competition? Don't you think the Germans got it because they offered better terms, off-sets and because they already gave Greece plenty of used Leo1 (and gave Leo 2A4s later, after they ordered Leo2A6HEL)... ?!

 

[500]

- Who said HESH is the best round? You skirted the range issue, which is why I mentioned HESH..

Well HESH is the only "advantage" of Chally. Because other rounds are better from smoothbore.

Smoothbore gun can also fire at ranges beyond 5 km. Out sniper crews actually train to fire at such ranges.

- The tanks in the 2002 (!) Greek tank trials the M1A2 Abrams, Leopard 2A5, Leclerc, Challenger 2E, T-80UE and T-84. Of these six vehicles, out of a maximum possible operational and technical score of 100%, best performing were: Leopard 2A5, 78.65%; M1A2 Abrams, 72.21%; Leclerc, 72.03%; and Challenger 2E, 69.19%. Next was the T-84 and last the T-80UE.

Of 39 items, only 17 deal with firing the main gun. Wich ones exactly would say something about the quality of the gun and just that gun (i.e. not different ammunitions, or differences in fire control or turret drives of stabilization systerms)? What are exactly the scores on those items?

In hunter kill mode it hit only 8 targets out of 20. On move it did not even fire. Also during mobility tests it hit the ground with the cannon, because its excessive length.

 

[Penguin]

Well HESH is the only "advantage" of Chally. Because other rounds are better from smoothbore.

Smoothbore gun can also fire at ranges beyond 5 km. Out sniper crews actually train to fire at such ranges.

None of which doesn't make the L30 a shitty gun...

In hunter kill mode it hit only 8 targets out of 20. On move it did not even fire. Also during mobility tests it hit the ground with the cannon, because its excessive length.

There is little difference in length between the Rheinmetall 120L55 and the L30.....

So, you mean that the Chally 2E's length overall (with gun forward) is 53cm more than that of the Leo2A6 with L55 with gun forward? And that that is excessive?

Mind you, it has been that long all these years that they've (Brits and others) operated both Challengers 1 and 2 in combat, and even before the Germans came out with an L55 120mm smoothbore version of Leo 2! Chieftain already was 10.77 gun forward!

If anything, it points to a poorly prepared (Greek?) crew...

Challenger 1 Length11.5 metres (37 ft 9 in) (Gun forward)
Challenger 2E Length. 8.3 m (27 ft 3 in). 11.50 m (37 ft 9 in) with gun forward
Leopard 2A6 (L55) Length (gun forward), 10.97 m


Brit L11A5 120mm
Weight1,778 kg (3,920 lb)
Length 6.858 metres (22 ft 6 in)
barrel length 55 calibres (6.6 meters)

Rheinmetall 120 mm
Weight 1,190 kg (2,620 lb)
Gun barrel 3,317 kg (7,313 lb)
Gun mount Length
L/44: 5.28 m (17.3 ft)
L/55: 6.6 m (22 ft)
barrel length 44–55 calibers

Now picture this:

Israëli Merkava with 120L44: 9.04m
so with L55: 9,04+(6.6-5.28)=9,04+1,32= 10,36m

Chieftain L15 10.57m

Italian C1 Ariete with 120L44: 9.52 m
so with L55: 9,52+(6.6-5.28)=9,52+1,32= 10,84m

Type 90 (japan) with 120L44 : 9,755m loa
so with L55: 9,755+(6.6-5.28)=9,755+1,32= 10,875m

Leopard2A6 120L55 10.97 m

M1A2 Abrams with 120L44 : 9.77m loa
so with L55: 9,77+(6.6-5.28)=9,77+1,32= 11,09m

Now, that excessive length is just 41 cm longer than M1A2...

 

[Penguin]

Well HESH is the only "advantage" of Chally. Because other rounds are better from smoothbore.

Smoothbore gun can also fire at ranges beyond 5 km. Out sniper crews actually train to fire at such ranges.

Which again says nothing about the L30 gun.

In hunter kill mode it hit only 8 targets out of 20. On move it did not even fire. Also during mobility tests it hit the ground with the cannon, because its excessive length.

RHeinmetall 120/55 is slightly shorter than L30 (4,1cm).

Rheinmetall 120L44
Barrel length (calibres) 44
Length (mm) 5621
Weight (kg) 3655
Muzzle velocity (m/s) 1700
Army Guide - Rh-M-120, Gun

Length 5621mm of which barrel = 120mm x 44=4800+480=5280mm
L55 therefor = (5621-5280) + (120x55) = 341+6600 = 6941mm

L30
Length (mm) 6982
Barrel length (calibres) 55
Army Guide - L30, Gun

 

[500]

None of which doesn't make the L30 a shitty gun...

No one said its shitty. The initial claim was that its not as impressive as RM. Thats true.

There is no difference in length between the Rheinmetall 120L55 and the L30.....

So, you mean that the Chally 2E's length overall (with gun forward) is 53cm more than that of the Leo2A6 with L55 with gun forward? And that that is excessive?

53 cm can make a difference between stucking and passing free. And I dont think L55 is good idea either.

 

[rmi5]

no tank is best in the world

all western tanks are very good , and it depends on the skill of the crew

Yup, To be precise, that's correct. but I think the overall performance of Leclerc, alone, is somehow better

 

[Penguin]

No one said its shitty. The initial claim was that its not as impressive as RM. Thats true.

I beg to differ. It is a fine gun. Chally 1 holds the record for longest range 'for real' tank kill (5,1km) , with Chally 2 second (5,0km) Try blaming the ammunition...

The term “blue on blue” refers to Fratricide, or an accidental attack on friendly forces. On the 25th of March one Challenger 2 engaged another Challenger with HESH rounds. HESH is a typical high explosive lobed round meaning its firing trajectory is a high arch making it at range a top attack weapon. 1 round hit the back decks of the tank injuring the crew and another hitting the top of the turret reportingly with an open commanders hatch. This vicious explosion and enormous heat cooked off the tanks ammunition consequently destroying the tank. tragically killing two crewman. This engagement remains the only Challenger 2 to be catastrophically killed on operations.

The British Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank | TankNutDave

When the CR2 was returned the FCS was tested and found in good order. It was found that the main gun had soot and debris in the barrel. This was because the Greeks had been supplied with the old Challenger 1′s L23 APFSDS for the trials and as such the old L14A2 case charge, which was a modified for desert weather L14A1 and had been so hurriedly manufactured that WNC-supplied L8 combustible cases were modified to meet urgent deliveries for the Gulf War. It was the old L14A2 case charges that had been responsible for the debris in the barrel and fouling the shots fired in Greece.

The British Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank | TankNutDave

53 cm can make a difference between stucking and passing free. And I dont think L55 is good idea either.

4,1 cm actually due to the GUN, with the rest in the chassis/turret design. Refitting the Chally2E with the Rheinmetall 120L55 would save 4,1 cm on length over all (which would remain well longer than others i.e. 49cm). So, blame the design, don not blame the gun. And, come on, Chally's have been around with that length for ages and there is not like a string of reports indicating a problem with barrel length .... what counts is:

Telic 1 Challenger 2 history was best known for a Royal Scots Dragoon Guards tank throwing its tracks and getting stuck in a ditch, which was reportedly hit by 14 RPG variants and a MILAN anti-tank missile. The attack saw the sights on the vehicle destroyed, but the armour was un-penetrated and the crew walked away when the vehicle was recovered.

The British Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank | TankNutDave

 

[Maea]

Yup, To be precise, that's correct. but I think the overall performance of Leclerc, alone, is somehow better

nope leclerc is not better, yes it has some good features but it also has some weak point wich Leopard 2A6 can fullfill, and is same for Leopard 2A6.
So my friend Leclerc is an average tank with some good features, but definetly it's not a very good tank.

 

[Asian.Century]

M1A2 Abraham Tanks are the best in world.