Darth Vader
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Explosives. A cruise missile without the explosives is an FPV RC airplane
1,500km Babur II under Development, also SL Babur progress.
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Safriz
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A
A FILED UNDER World News
Asia & Pacific Rim ADS BY PULSE 360 AdChoices ISLAMABAD Days after Pakistan hinted that it possesses a sea-based
second nuclear strike capability, Indian Defence Ministry officials
remained silent on the matter, and outside observers were skeptical
that the Navy had such a capability. On May 19, the head of the Pakistan Navy, Adm. Asif Sandhila,
inaugurated the Headquarters of the Naval Strategic Force Command
(NSFC). A press release by the militarys Inter Services Public Relations
stated the NSFC will perform a pivotal role in development and
employment of the Naval Strategic Force, and was the custodian of
the nations 2nd strike capability. Beyond the announcement, Pakistans Navy has said little about the
office or about the services capabilities. In February, Sandhila told Defense News that the Pakistan Navy was
mindful of Indias plans to complete the sea-based arm of its nuclear
triad, and was taking necessary measures to restore the strategic
balance in the Indian Ocean region. Christian Le Mière, a research fellow for naval forces and maritime
security at the International Institute for Strategic Studies, said
Pakistans sea-based deterrent is most likely the widely speculated
submarine-launched variant of the Babur/Hatf-7 (Vengeance-7) cruise
missile. The Babur is already nuclear-capable and is expected to be used on
submarines, he said. I have not seen verifiable evidence of any tests
for a submarine-launched version, but it is perfectly feasible that a
[submarine-launched cruise missile] is now available. Analyst Usman Shabbir, with the Pakistan Military Consortium think
tank, said Pakistan has been working on its sea-based deterrent for
some time. When the Babur was first revealed in 2005, it was claimed that it is
mainly designed to be deployed from submarines. There was at least
that speculation, he said. The Navy has pretty good experience in using similar systems; for
example, both submarine-launched Harpoon and Exocet [missiles] use
a similar system, and [the Navy] has operated both for a long time. Shabbir speculated that the Babur/Hatf-7 missiles might be fired from
torpedo tubes, similar to UGM-84 Harpoons. But Le Mière believes there may still be some room for doubt. The phrase sea-based second strike suggests a surface vessel could
also be used if a submarine-launched version is not yet ready, he said.
But obviously, while a surface vessel is mobile, it is far less survivable
and far more detectable than a sub. As for Pakistans neighbor to the east, Harsh Pant, international
relations lecturer at the Department of Defence Studies at Kings
College in London, said India is neither alarmed nor disadvantaged by
this development. India had factored this reality into its force posture much before this
acknowledgement, Pant said. I do not see this changing the ground
reality, insofar [as the] India-Pakistan nuclear posture is concerned.
Despite what outsiders might think, nuclear deterrence in South Asia
remains robust. The real problem remains the role of non-state actors, he added. In
that context, Pakistans sea-based second strike capability is more
reassuring, because the non-state actors will not have as easy access to
it as the land- or air-based one. He said, Indian policymakers should welcome this development, as it
removes the veil of secrecy over this issue. New Delhi analyst Nitin Mehta also cast doubt on Pakistans nuclear
maritime capability. It is unlikely that Pakistan has the capability to design and develop a
sea-based nuclear missile, since even China, which is known to be
helping Pakistan in its nuclear capabilities, does not possesses a
credible submarine-launched missile, he said. Pakistan could be
developing an undersea nuclear ballistic missile, but it cannot do it on
its own. Other analysts are not certain the Pakistan Navy can afford to
undertake the responsibility of the nations second-strike capability. Brian Cloughley, a former Australian defense attaché to Islamabad, said
the size of Pakistans submarine force is too small to carry out such a
task. Pakistans current submarine fleet is not adequate in numbers
[although well-trained] to be able to undertake detection and effective
interdiction of the Indian fleet, given its size which is increasing,
even if slowly, he said. Pakistan has two refurbished 1970s-era Agosta-70 and three 1990s-
era Agosta-90B subs. The latter are equipped with air independent
propulsion (AIP) or are in the process of being retrofitted with the AIP
module, and incrementally entered service beginning in 1999. Le Mière believes Pakistan could, at a stretch, maintain a constant
deterrent patrol. Once all the Agosta-90Bs are fitted with AIP, this should theoretically
allow for one submarine deployed for most of the time, with another
in refit and another in reserve, he said. In theory, this allows for
constant patrols, but in reality, problems with boats usually lead to
gaps if there is a three-boat fleet. Le Mière conceded, though, this would cause other problems. This would be the majority of the Pakistani fleet dedicated to nuclear
strike, or certainly dedicating a significant portion of its arsenal to
nuclear-tipped Baburs, he said. Hence, whether this second-strike
capability will in fact be deployed in a form of near-constant at-sea
deterrence is questionable until Pakistan is able to procure further
submarines to fill the conventional role, as well. Cloughley said the interdiction of Indias fleet must remain [the
Navys] first priority, and he considers conversion of the present
assets to take Babur not only costly, but a most regrettable diversion
of budget allocation. I would go so far as to say that, in present circumstances, it would be
a grave error if such a program were to go ahead, he added. Pakistan has a requirement for 12 to 14 subs to meet Navy expansion
plans. This would allow for a constant war patrol of at least one
deterrent-tasked submarine, leaving other submarines to carry out
more traditional tasks. However, Cloughley is still certain that Pakistan does not require such a
capability. [Pakistan] has plenty of nuclear-capable SSMs and strike aircraft, and
does not need a Navy-oriented second-strike capability, he said. Correspondent Vivek Raghuvanshi in New Delhi contributed to this
report
........................................................
This article was discussed here.
On pdf in detail...i cant post the link as i am on mobile.
---------------++++++++---------++++++
Goes to show that the world already knows and pakistan has already indicated that they are preparing a submarine based nuclear deterrant...
A FILED UNDER World News
Asia & Pacific Rim ADS BY PULSE 360 AdChoices ISLAMABAD Days after Pakistan hinted that it possesses a sea-based
second nuclear strike capability, Indian Defence Ministry officials
remained silent on the matter, and outside observers were skeptical
that the Navy had such a capability. On May 19, the head of the Pakistan Navy, Adm. Asif Sandhila,
inaugurated the Headquarters of the Naval Strategic Force Command
(NSFC). A press release by the militarys Inter Services Public Relations
stated the NSFC will perform a pivotal role in development and
employment of the Naval Strategic Force, and was the custodian of
the nations 2nd strike capability. Beyond the announcement, Pakistans Navy has said little about the
office or about the services capabilities. In February, Sandhila told Defense News that the Pakistan Navy was
mindful of Indias plans to complete the sea-based arm of its nuclear
triad, and was taking necessary measures to restore the strategic
balance in the Indian Ocean region. Christian Le Mière, a research fellow for naval forces and maritime
security at the International Institute for Strategic Studies, said
Pakistans sea-based deterrent is most likely the widely speculated
submarine-launched variant of the Babur/Hatf-7 (Vengeance-7) cruise
missile. The Babur is already nuclear-capable and is expected to be used on
submarines, he said. I have not seen verifiable evidence of any tests
for a submarine-launched version, but it is perfectly feasible that a
[submarine-launched cruise missile] is now available. Analyst Usman Shabbir, with the Pakistan Military Consortium think
tank, said Pakistan has been working on its sea-based deterrent for
some time. When the Babur was first revealed in 2005, it was claimed that it is
mainly designed to be deployed from submarines. There was at least
that speculation, he said. The Navy has pretty good experience in using similar systems; for
example, both submarine-launched Harpoon and Exocet [missiles] use
a similar system, and [the Navy] has operated both for a long time. Shabbir speculated that the Babur/Hatf-7 missiles might be fired from
torpedo tubes, similar to UGM-84 Harpoons. But Le Mière believes there may still be some room for doubt. The phrase sea-based second strike suggests a surface vessel could
also be used if a submarine-launched version is not yet ready, he said.
But obviously, while a surface vessel is mobile, it is far less survivable
and far more detectable than a sub. As for Pakistans neighbor to the east, Harsh Pant, international
relations lecturer at the Department of Defence Studies at Kings
College in London, said India is neither alarmed nor disadvantaged by
this development. India had factored this reality into its force posture much before this
acknowledgement, Pant said. I do not see this changing the ground
reality, insofar [as the] India-Pakistan nuclear posture is concerned.
Despite what outsiders might think, nuclear deterrence in South Asia
remains robust. The real problem remains the role of non-state actors, he added. In
that context, Pakistans sea-based second strike capability is more
reassuring, because the non-state actors will not have as easy access to
it as the land- or air-based one. He said, Indian policymakers should welcome this development, as it
removes the veil of secrecy over this issue. New Delhi analyst Nitin Mehta also cast doubt on Pakistans nuclear
maritime capability. It is unlikely that Pakistan has the capability to design and develop a
sea-based nuclear missile, since even China, which is known to be
helping Pakistan in its nuclear capabilities, does not possesses a
credible submarine-launched missile, he said. Pakistan could be
developing an undersea nuclear ballistic missile, but it cannot do it on
its own. Other analysts are not certain the Pakistan Navy can afford to
undertake the responsibility of the nations second-strike capability. Brian Cloughley, a former Australian defense attaché to Islamabad, said
the size of Pakistans submarine force is too small to carry out such a
task. Pakistans current submarine fleet is not adequate in numbers
[although well-trained] to be able to undertake detection and effective
interdiction of the Indian fleet, given its size which is increasing,
even if slowly, he said. Pakistan has two refurbished 1970s-era Agosta-70 and three 1990s-
era Agosta-90B subs. The latter are equipped with air independent
propulsion (AIP) or are in the process of being retrofitted with the AIP
module, and incrementally entered service beginning in 1999. Le Mière believes Pakistan could, at a stretch, maintain a constant
deterrent patrol. Once all the Agosta-90Bs are fitted with AIP, this should theoretically
allow for one submarine deployed for most of the time, with another
in refit and another in reserve, he said. In theory, this allows for
constant patrols, but in reality, problems with boats usually lead to
gaps if there is a three-boat fleet. Le Mière conceded, though, this would cause other problems. This would be the majority of the Pakistani fleet dedicated to nuclear
strike, or certainly dedicating a significant portion of its arsenal to
nuclear-tipped Baburs, he said. Hence, whether this second-strike
capability will in fact be deployed in a form of near-constant at-sea
deterrence is questionable until Pakistan is able to procure further
submarines to fill the conventional role, as well. Cloughley said the interdiction of Indias fleet must remain [the
Navys] first priority, and he considers conversion of the present
assets to take Babur not only costly, but a most regrettable diversion
of budget allocation. I would go so far as to say that, in present circumstances, it would be
a grave error if such a program were to go ahead, he added. Pakistan has a requirement for 12 to 14 subs to meet Navy expansion
plans. This would allow for a constant war patrol of at least one
deterrent-tasked submarine, leaving other submarines to carry out
more traditional tasks. However, Cloughley is still certain that Pakistan does not require such a
capability. [Pakistan] has plenty of nuclear-capable SSMs and strike aircraft, and
does not need a Navy-oriented second-strike capability, he said. Correspondent Vivek Raghuvanshi in New Delhi contributed to this
report
........................................................
This article was discussed here.
On pdf in detail...i cant post the link as i am on mobile.
---------------++++++++---------++++++
Goes to show that the world already knows and pakistan has already indicated that they are preparing a submarine based nuclear deterrant...
JohnyBravo
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ohhhhh hmm NSFC eans Naval strategic force..
Safriz
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Naval strategic force command..
For them the multi tube launch for babur was developed.
And if at the moment it cant be fitted in a submarine,it can easily befitted on a navy ship...
That too will be a sea based nuclear deterrant..
regular
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Now the above argument is getting clearance. So this means that the Naval babur is gonna be coming from the G2G version of the babur. Cuz they already working on that version. and this G2G version is easy to be changed to Naval version afterwards when the PN is going to get the proper subz for that purpose. I mean most probably the Qing class subz from China. right now the PN don't have any cruise missile in ready form for more than 700km range IMO. Yea when the G2G version is ready in 1500km range then obviously PN gonna get its share in naval version.......I guess we don't have to quarrel now......
Safriz
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^^^For submarine launch the difference is not in the missile but in launch mechanism..
Rocket motor cannot be fired inside the submarine or under water...So high pressure steam or gas has to push the missile out towards suface and launch in the air using momentum so that rocket motor can be fired...
Rocket motor cannot be fired inside the submarine or under water...So high pressure steam or gas has to push the missile out towards suface and launch in the air using momentum so that rocket motor can be fired...
regular
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yea and PN was working on for some time to perfect that system/mechanism to integrate that mechanism in its future subz Nuclear triad for the second strike capability.......
Safriz
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yea and PN was working on for some time to perfect that system/mechanism to integrate that mechanism in its future subz Nuclear triad for the second strike capability.......
right...so now you have finally calmed down and starting to remember it all?
A few comments ago you were denying it all
Bratva
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right...so now you have finally calmed down and starting to remember it all?
A few comments ago you were denying it all
Safriz, it took 2 years to increase the range of babur from 500 to 700 and from 2007-2012 the range could have increased to 1000+ but they didn't which in my opinion instead of increasing range, they diverted all their efforts to Naval version plus improving Babur guidance systems due to which without satellite guidance it can achieve 2 meter accuracy.
In 2006 first rumour of Pakistani builiding miniaturize nuclear reactor for subs emerged which means it's been more than 6-7 years that work on nuclear reactor is going on. In 2012, Nave chief for the first time gave a hint of 5 year for a Nuclear submarine
Now a submarine is required. At the same time in parallel, work started on naval version of Cruise Missile and on nuke reactor.....
It's the same approach that our late Air chief Mushaf ali Mir took for JF-17... Decoupling the avionics development and continued working on JF-17 development.... Same path is been taken for Nuke sub. Reactor, Nuclear cruise missiles are been developed in parallel so that when submarine comes PN don't waste 10-15 years more to develop these technologies.
Obviously these are all the guesses based on the statment
Pakistan is under inferiority complex so thats why they created the NSFC just to showoff India that they are balancing the power within the region. Other than that it don't have no credibility. Its giving advantage to PN officers to get more paychecks and also fool our nation that our armed forces are doing too much for the nation just to increase their budget spending limits......In the west is an old saying"Seeing is believing" . We shold not just go for claims or just talkings. Truth cannot be hidden it comes itself out. When we will realli see the tests we will happili believe in everything. The technical experts within the world knows the credibility of our forces. The startegic assets takes lot of time, research and $$$ to materialize. Theories just don't work. We never even tested ground to ground cruise missile of 1500Km range and here doing big mouth claim for the underwater cruise missile claim for 1500Km. Anyways its a good try to keep the nation happi on the PDF forum. So many rumours we seen which never came out true and its looks like one of them......its also possible I may be wrong in my assumptions but we shold not be daydreaming all the times. I wish & hope we attain such capability or more than that for PN in near future......
Bro, could you apply this to the event when Pakistan gone nuclear? even then majority was suspecious of that. Our neigbours were taken aback, it was 'jaw dropping' event for them.
Though as a nation we are 'Choon Choon ka Murabbah' and at leadership level usually un-organized and failed to deliver; but I still believe when we stand united for a target, it was never out of our reach as individuals or as a nation.
If we watch our surroundings in usual life with positive attitude, we will find many such around us those who achieved some sort of success in reference to their work/job/profession with very very imbalance proportion of resources. It is our bad luck that, our media is projecting only negative image and usually not paying any attention to good things. They are totally lost against foreign media. Foreign media is mature to their national interests, we suddenly can't adopt the path which they achieved over the decades.
BE HAPPY - HOPE ALWAYS KEEPS OR TENDS TO KEEP YOU ALIVE - BE ALIVE...
Soon you will hear good news - INSHA-ALLAH
NAHIN HAI NA-UMMEED, IQBAL APNI KUSHT-E-VERRAN SAY
ZARA NUM HO TU YE MUTTI, BARI ZARKHAIZ HAI SAQI
could babur act as anti-ship we all that is for land attack but i have seen in the news they told that it can hit ship and land target it is cruise missile it might be possible but some 1 can confirm it please
Rafi
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Let me set out a few bits of information that will establish, that from the start the majority of the Second Strike component was to be deployed at sea, the development of the Babur program was designed to reach a number of milestones, which would eventually make it a strategic weapon.
My sources are in the know, lets leave it at that.
My sources are in the know, lets leave it at that.
regular
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Man I was just messing with U...don't take it seriously......cuz I was daydreaming too..Infact I was trying to help indians to have good night sleep but U made them stay awake all nights.They are humans too, needs some rest too..right...so now you have finally calmed down and starting to remember it all?
A few comments ago you were denying it all
get straight
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what kind of intelligence internet hindus have i mean, can you even compare babur with any chinese missile??, its infact compared with tomahawk missile than any chinese missile
stop comparing your russian missile program with our missileprogram, you are the one painting brahmus with indian colours when we already know the exact origin of such missile
pathetic internet hindus logic,
doesnt make any bit of sense
Last Hope
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The recent test-fires of Babur GLCM were done with different launchers and different 'heads' with slight changes in body.
My sources had told me prior to the tests that Babur's Naval version is being developed and the tests proved them to be right. The development is more closer than a person might think (development, induction will take longer). Another good news is that this version will probably be supersonic, as I happened to learn we are developing a supersonic cruise missile too with similar range.
My sources had told me prior to the tests that Babur's Naval version is being developed and the tests proved them to be right. The development is more closer than a person might think (development, induction will take longer). Another good news is that this version will probably be supersonic, as I happened to learn we are developing a supersonic cruise missile too with similar range.
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