1,500km Babur II under Development, also SL Babur progress.

[Armstrong]

In addition to all of this, Why are people concluding that the PN has subs launching missles as its first priority.
The Ghauri missiles, when first bought from NK.. were checked out for sea launch capability. and the NK's assured KRL that this was possible with adjustments to the then guidance system.

Pardon the interjection but is any of that substantiated with credible or even nearly-credible evidence or is it just hear-say ?

 

[illusion8]

Pardon the interjection but is any of that substantiated with credible or even nearly-credible evidence or is it just hear-say ?

No-dong-A also called Shahab-3, 3A, 3B, 3C, & Ghauri-II MRBM
Shahab-3
The North-Korean Nodong missile family (R-18, Nodong, Ghauri, Shahab, Ghadr)

 

[Safriz]

No-dong-A also called Shahab-3, 3A, 3B, 3C, & Ghauri-II MRBM
Shahab-3
The North-Korean Nodong missile family (R-18, Nodong, Ghauri, Shahab, Ghadr)

The western sources also call Babur cruise missile as 'Vangance-7'
Which was a second world war Nazi,pulse jet missile.

 

[Armstrong]

No-dong-A also called Shahab-3, 3A, 3B, 3C, & Ghauri-II MRBM
Shahab-3
The North-Korean Nodong missile family (R-18, Nodong, Ghauri, Shahab, Ghadr)

That was an informative read, much obliged - Thank You ! But I reiterate what I said 'is any of that substantiated with credible or nearly-credible evidence or is it just hearsay ?', because the two links that you posted begin with this assumption that the 'Ghauri' series are a direct copy of the 'Nodong A' instead of exploring whether they really are or not ? Whether there is any credible evidence to suggest that they are ? A similar appearance isn't something that I'd pass for as 'credible evidence' because, unless I'm mistaken, most in the Scud family (and others) look, at times, strikingly alike and yet may be completely different from inside.

 

[Safriz]

And Babur is a photocopy of second worldwar nazi rocket....

 

[Hyperion]

Pardon the interjection but is any of that substantiated with credible or even nearly-credible evidence or is it just hear-say ?

Yara, it's true. Remember, did the chick come first or the egg? Ponder a little bit. There will never be proof, if proof exists in human form, he'll would have been silenced long time back (other than the very senior officers)

 

[Armstrong]

Yara, it's true. Remember, did the chick come first or the egg? Ponder a little bit. There will never be proof, if proof exists in human form, he'll would have been silenced long time back (other than the very senior officers)

Wrror (did I say that right ? ), I wasn't asking for a walking, talking proof but simply something more substantial than 'its a direct copy of the NK missiles'...why ? Because 'its a direct copy of the NK missile' ! That cyclical logic maybe true or maybe a load of dino crap !

P.S I bought a packet of Naswar today, I opened it up and then looked at it for a whole 5 minutes (try that some-time !); suffice it to say I'm still not convinced whether it looked more like something that a goat would throw up after its been chewed on or whether its something that would come out of its rear after its been digested ! Tou heee sher ka bachaaa hai jo khaaa saktaaa hai merei mein tou hoslaa hee nahin thaaa.

 

[Hyperion]

Wrror (did I say that right ? ), I wasn't asking for a walking, talking proof but simply something more substantial than 'its a direct copy of the NK missiles'...why ? Because 'its a direct copy of the NK missile' ! That cyclical logic maybe true or maybe a load of dino crap !

P.S I bought a packet of Naswar today, I opened it up and then looked at it for a whole 5 minutes (try that some-time !); suffice it to say I'm still not convinced whether it looked more like something that a goat would throw up after its been chewed on or whether its something that would come out of its rear after its been digested ! Tou heee sher ka bachaaa hai jo khaaa saktaaa hai merei mein tou hoslaa hee nahin thaaa.

Try it... Try it.. Try it for me man You'll get the most wonderful feeling first, and then your head will roll on all axis. Just make sure you're sitting down for at least 30 minutes initially!

Regarding the fireworks, I knew the DDG (procurement) at the time when it happened.. Besides, who cares, it just gave us the initial 'play' capacity. It was an obsolete system within 18 months. Shaheen series, on the other hand is a different ball game all-together.

Remember simple rule: KRL was a copy station, if you will: A mini China workshop. Where as Dr. Bu** & Co (don't ask, people who know, will understand immediately what I am talking about) at NESCOM and some other _ _ _ _ institutes did some brilliant work in the mid 90's. Later in the early 2000, some specialist work began on some real deterrents, and these ones whoop ***!

 

[Viper0011.]

Ghauri had a lot of design influence through Nodong series,including the shape. Post Hatf1, the technology started to get influence from China, Russia and even some European countries. For example, the current version of Babur, Ra'ad and NASR takes some US Tomahawk & Harpoon design and tech specifics related to their platform.

US brought a lot of German engineers into the US after WWII, Russia did the same and the rest were consumed by the Europeans. These formed the basis of majority of your Military Industrial Complexes. Since then, France stole Mig designs and made Mirage, Israel stole that and made Lavi, China license produced Migs and then advanced to their own planes with Russian design elements. Pakistan stole Tomahawk that were left on the ground and reverse engineered it into Babur and Ra'ad. India got SU series of planes, Prithvi and Agni have A LOT of Israeli and Russian input, the LCA is the result of integration of half Western and half Israeli & Russian tech. Knowledge gained by India and they will build another one by themselves....BUT even that one will have foreign elements. So...if you take a look at it, EVERYONE took some input from others and that's the name of the game. The term is 'COTS'...Common Off the Shelf Components...i.e. if someone's got it, try to integrate it instead of REINVENTING the wheel. That may take two decades in coming up with something new vs. five years to integrate and operationalize a component. You avoid failures, rework and retesting thus saving tremendous amounts of $$$$.

 

[Safriz]

well you dont want to reinvent the wheel,you start with a copy and learn from it..then improve upon it...
Thats the most logical,simple and cost effective approach...

 

[The Deterrent]

Pardon the interjection but is any of that substantiated with credible or even nearly-credible evidence or is it just hear-say ?

Marra Ghauri-Is were repainted Nodongs and their "license-produced" copies (as stated by Sir Oscar). The post-2000 versions of Ghauri-II have Pakistani inputs as the Guidance System of the ReV is designed by Pakistan (NESCOM).

 

[ANG]

Marra Ghauri-Is were repainted Nodongs and their "license-produced" copies (as stated by Sir Oscar). The post-2000 versions of Ghauri-II have Pakistani inputs as the Guidance System of the ReV is designed by Pakistan (NESCOM).

Hi, just to reinforce what has been said above. I explicitly remember in an interview with Dr. AQ Khan, he admitted that North Korea did help in the original Ghauri version. However, he went on to say when Pakistan was past the learning curve, they started building their own "stuff" and more importantly all the software and targeting algorithms were home made.

Yes, Pakistan imported stuff from China and North Korea, but that was in the early to mid 90s. We are now in 2012, and it is a completely different situation now.

 

[Arsalan]

Does it also have to do with the fact that currently PN does not have subs large enough to house a cruise missile or fire one? My understanding is that before all of this happens, we will have to wait for the next generation subs probably the Qing class.

Pardon my ignorance but can Augsta fire a cruise missile?

No dear,
the dimensions of the GLCM Babur are appropriate to be fitted and fired from a submarine's torpedo tube with little modification. the missile dimensions are not much different from torpedo we are using with Augusta subs (ECAN F17 Mod 2) and thus space is also not an issues.

Changes will be required in firing mechanism and that can also be dealt with and is being worked upon. also the guidance system will require slight changes.

All in all, firing Babur from agosta can and will be managed technically and is being worked upon.

However, there is one thing i am not sure about, that have nothing to do with technology but politics, the Missile Technology Control Regime or the MTCR.
Pakistan is not a member of MTCR but France is. So french may stop us from using a land attack missile more the 300 Km range. The MTCR prohibits the use of any imported weapon system to be used to launch missile over 300 Km range.
This might be a problem and in this case we will have to wait till PN get hands on to some Chinese Subs since they are not member of MTCR as well.

But, the point is that work on the Naval version of LACM is well underway!

regards!

 

[IND151]

Russian club missile when launched flies at mach 0.8

after coming near the target, it reaches full speed i.e Mach 2.9

range is only 120 km

source> Air Power Australia

actually i am not sure about whether its minimum speed is 0.8 mach

this is the accurate and available info on Novator 3M-54E

The more advanced 3M-54E combines the subsonic cruise airframe of the 3M-54E1/3M-14E with a Mach 2.9 rocket propelled guided payload. Like its subsonic sibling, it approaches from under the horizon using the same radar seeker to detect its target. Once locked on, it discards the cruise airframe, fires its rocket motor, and accelerates to Mach 2.9 at a sea skimming altitude of 15 feet. Novator claim the missile follows a zig-zag flightpath to defeat defenses.

Sunburn for the RAN?

 

[regular]

No dear,
the dimensions of the GLCM Babur are appropriate to be fitted and fired from a submarine's torpedo tube with little modification. the missile dimensions are not much different from torpedo we are using with Augusta subs (ECAN F17 Mod 2) and thus space is also not an issues.

Changes will be required in firing mechanism and that can also be dealt with and is being worked upon. also the guidance system will require slight changes.

All in all, firing Babur from agosta can and will be managed technically and is being worked upon.

However, there is one thing i am not sure about, that have nothing to do with technology but politics, the Missile Technology Control Regime or the MTCR.
Pakistan is not a member of MTCR but France is. So french may stop us from using a land attack missile more the 300 Km range. The MTCR prohibits the use of any imported weapon system to be used to launch missile over 300 Km range.
This might be a problem and in this case we will have to wait till PN get hands on to some Chinese Subs since they are not member of MTCR as well.

But, the point is that work on the Naval version of LACM is well underway!

regards!

I am amazed that Pakistan shold be able to manufacture their own version of Agusta subz after getting the transfer of tech from France. Idk what the PN engineers doing just getting their paychecks and looking for China to make everything for them.....thats not cool......I guess we too lazy to do anything on our own.......