India asks Japan if it’s interested in Rs 50,000 crore submarine project

[Beast]

How will you replace all your aging submarines by 2020 or 2025. China will have less numbers in 2030 than it is now . Another 5 will be added till 2022 . Aged submarines will be sitting dolphins against modern day ASW . Not to forget already 6 scorpions under construction and 6 more will be built under P75 programme by 2025-2027 . Along with 6 more Arihant at the same time . May be another Add on orders will be provided for 4 more scorpion to manage aging submarines fleet. This is only about India. Now add Vietnam Japan Australia .... it will be easily outmatch china in all fronts

Looks like india will have 8 old upgraded subs , 6 scorpions ,6 P75 programme, 3 Arihant + 6 Advanced Arihant + 3 Russia Nuclear subs by 2027 . If there is no delays.(hopefully won't be there or may be . No one can predict) these are without follow on orders. Now add 4 each on Scorpions which is built in India and 4 more p75 ( hopefully russia) after 2027. Atleast 37-40 subs by 2030 .

In the next 15 years Chinese will add 15 -16 subs . 60% subs are aging subs from Soviet era in Chinese fleet of 60+ .


India alone can match .

Look at the ignorant Indians. Talking about China aging submarine? How many Scorpene has commission so far in IN after so many years and how many kilo has put out of service? Talking as China submarine are all bought oversea? We build our own 039B yuan AIP submarine and in 6 years time, at least 8 have went into service.

While we have put at least 3 type 093 SSN and 4 type SSBN type094 into service in less than 1 decades. What world are you living? Indian world?

 

[sancho]

the Modi government has asked the Shinzo Abe administration whether it would be interested in the over Rs 50,000 crore project to build six stealth submarines in India...

...But the 4,200-tonne Soryu submarines, manufactured by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries and Kawasaki Heavy Industries, may not meet Indian requirements. Japan will also be just one of the contenders for the mega programme, called Project-75-India, if it agrees to throw its hat into the ring...

...The six new submarines, with both land-attack missile capabilities and air-independent propulsion for greater underwater endurance, are to be built at an Indian shipyard with foreign collaboration. "If Japan is really interested, it will have to form a joint venture with an Indian public/private shipyard," said the source.

So the crux of the article is, that the modi government wants Japan to join the P75I competition. There is no joint project, there is no deepening of the relations to Japan with this offer, their sub and their proposal might night comply to Indian requirements (land attack capability, licence production under ToT).

 

[vsdave2302]

Don't do that, in the last we will get "Khichdi"!!

You are wrong. Our Khichadi in MKI has made it a very potent plane. Russian engineering and platfor, Indian softawre, France avionics and israeli EW and so no.

 

[sancho]

Why not just build more DCNS Scorpenes with another private shipyard. Common systems will help logistics, training, deployment, refits, maintainence, spares, production time. Single AIP Diesel platforms will eliminate RFP process, oversight committees, TOT process overview, new supply chain. Deploying 14-16 DCNS Scorpene's imo won't be a bad option for IN.

That logically makes the Scorpene to the frontrunner in the tender and IN might actually prefer that option too, but the competition approach, gives us more advantages to reduce costs and get more additional benefits.
But producing it on a 2nd production line doesn't make any sense, since that only makes things more costly and complicated. You need to set up a new facilities for the production, need the shipyard to absorb ToT that already was absorbed by MDL, need to train new workers...
It's simply a bad move of the government to give more priority to it's economic agenda, rather than to the defence needs of the country and even more hilarious is, that they sell it as a move for self reliance, when it's only just another licence production of a foreign product and that when we could develop an own SSK by now.

The design bureau is already overloaded with so much project, including INS Vishaal, Future-SSN and SSBN. And yes, they have no room for design a new SSK.

Highly doubtful, since the only submarine project we have is the SSBN, with the SSN being a varient of the earlier, so not much to design anyway. More importantly, when you look at the indigenous capabilities in the naval field, it makes it pretty clear, that we have everything to develop a proper P75I sub on our own now.

- indigenous sub design know how (ready and available)
- indigenous SSK production capabilities (ready and available)
- indigenous sonar systems (ready and available)
- indigenous AIP (under development)
- indigenous torpedos, vertical and tube launched anti ship and land attack missiles (under development)

What's stops us? We need a fast addition to the SSK fleet, which is only possible under the former IN / MoD P75I plan, to procure 2 subs off the shelf from the winning vendor, but the NDA government has reversed that and purposly delayed inductions. So if a fast induction is not the aim anymore, why waste time and money on licence production again, instead of going for an indigenous or joint development to ACTUALLY increase self reliance?

 

[帅的一匹]

Japan sub is very very very expensive, Indian better watch out,

 

[chalHat]

Japan sub is very very very expensive, Indian better watch out,

U r saying for that country which giving 20billion $ for 4+ fighter

 

[mike2000]

Look at the ignorant Indians. Talking about China aging submarine? How many Scorpene has commission so far in IN after so many years and how many kilo has put out of service? Talking as China submarine are all bought oversea? We build our own 039B yuan AIP submarine and in 6 years time, at least 8 have went into service.

While we have put at least 3 type 093 SSN and 4 type SSBN type094 into service in less than 1 decades. What world are you living? Indian world?

I agree with you though. I think our Indian friends here should tone down their rhetoric. India, contrary to what I thought hasn't built an SSK independently since its independence, while Asian powers like China and Japan have been building/operating these type of sub's for decades now. Even south Korea does. India still has a longgggg way to go IMO. So we should stop this silly comparisons.

 

[About.to.be.banned]

India doesn't have an indegenious submarine? For some reason I always thought she did. Man India really needs to buckle up.

Well, India's enemies do not have Ships, so it never made much sense to try to have indigenous SSK.

It is growing strength of PLAN that has spurred India to seek advanced SSK's.

SSK's are useless , unless your enemy have ships and they are close to your shores.

Hmmmm. I see. So india has never designed and built an SSK independently?
For the future SSN and SSBN who are the foreign partners in this project? Apart from Russia obviously?

Partnership on SSN's and SSBN is prohibited by MTCR. Whatever partnership would be there, it would be wink wink nod nod type, no overt transfer of technology. Pretty much like how US supplies you with Trident missiles and is planning to replace them in name of overhauling and Life extension program.

Earlier one could have counted Russia to supply knowhow, but considering current political situation and India's tile toward West, it could not be guaranteed that they would be keen.

India is already constructing Arihant class SSBN's. The new tender may be to get some technologies which would make next SSBN line better. Arihant class could only carry 4 K-4's (3500KM range SLBM) or 12 K-15 (700 KM range SLBM).The biggest shortcoming of Arihant class is low power reactor due to which, both Submarine weight and number of missiles have to be kept low.

There are some rumors that India's SSN line would be based on Scorpene, for which MDL has got ToT; but that is an unconfirmed rumor as of now.

Money should be better spent on nutrition and sanitation and Japan can be a very big help for India through JAICA.

Japanese are boss people.

@Nihonjin1051

Indian is taking care of both of these problems by diverting raw sewage to Bangladesh. It would take care of sanitation problem of India as well as nutrition problem of Bangladesh.

 

[me_itsme]

Look at the ignorant Indians. Talking about China aging submarine? How many Scorpene has commission so far in IN after so many years and how many kilo has put out of service? Talking as China submarine are all bought oversea? We build our own 039B yuan AIP submarine and in 6 years time, at least 8 have went into service.

While we have put at least 3 type 093 SSN and 4 type SSBN type094 into service in less than 1 decades. What world are you living? Indian world?

Okay, you see one Indian or lets say a couple of Indians talking out of their ar$e and you blame all Indians to be !diots? In that case I have seen how retarded your posts are, does that mean all Chinese are retards? I think not. When you see retarded posts by Indians or anyone else its best to ignore them rather than getting into "yo mama" type situations.

 

[Echo_419]

India doesn't have an indegenious submarine? For some reason I always thought she did. Man India really needs to buckle up.

We are making a Nuclear Submarine on our own(With some help from Russians on the reactor) & will be supplying the AIP Propulsion for all the submarines that will be built in India,but despite this the Navy prefers that we order from a foreign nation hopefully this will be the last foreign submarine we purchase from abroad

I agree with you though. I think our Indian friends here should tone down their rhetoric. India, contrary to what I thought hasn't built an SSK independently since its independence, while Asian powers like China and Japan have been building/operating these type of sub's for decades now. Even south Korea does. India still has a longgggg way to go IMO. So we should stop this silly comparisons.

Agreed we are way behind but not longggggg behind

Japan sub is very very very expensive, Indian better watch out,

This look just Political rhetoric since we already are making french subs at home with our own AIP (which later will be fitted on all subs) it will make more sense to go for them

 

[Ind4Ever]

Look at the ignorant Indians. Talking about China aging submarine? How many Scorpene has commission so far in IN after so many years and how many kilo has put out of service? Talking as China submarine are all bought oversea? We build our own 039B yuan AIP submarine and in 6 years time, at least 8 have went into service.

While we have put at least 3 type 093 SSN and 4 type SSBN type094 into service in less than 1 decades. What world are you living? Indian world?

Hahahaha Building ur own submarines ? And what gave u the impression that Scorpion sub don't exist ? It's on the way dude. And don't lecture me about ur super power 60 submarines fleet . How many are operational ? Let see who ll have power packed submarines in next decades to come. China will the only nation keep patronising it's own powers even without single war experience. Numbers are mind game. Reality might be very upsetting . When we say we 8 operational submarines they are out of 13 of them. Some are under upgrade. In what world Russian technology became Chinese invention or creation ? Like ur WZ helicopter ? Like as u call su27 family as J11 family. We don't do like that.

Ok how of ur current fleet will be operational by 2027 out of ur 60 ?

 

[Ind4Ever]

@Beast
Ur total fleet 51 non nuclear attack submarine . Out of which
- 13 are Ming class ssk . built in 1980 design . 35 years already . Yet PLAN claims operational ? How will you face modern day Japanese subs ? New kilo class ?

12-13 Kilo class built last one 2004 . Most of them are 20 -15 years old . With no upgrades . But credible russian submarines but old in terms of technology it was built.

Song class 13 built from 1999

13 Yan Class in service . With AIP . Respect .

Out of 51 u have 14 outded submarines . By 2030 u have to build 30 sub to maintain ur current fleet . From 2015 - 2020 5 submarines been planned by PLAN.

UR nuclear Submarine strength 8-9
Out of which 4 are HAN Class built in 70-80s design and 2 Xia Class built in 1987 . 1 was lost in accident .

And your Jin class upgraded version of Xia . Which is also old technology. With huge vibration bench mark. Your numbers just good for name sake. Not for battle. That too when you have enemies surrounding you from all sides. It's very low . Powers are determined according to the threat levels . Not random numbers . For INDIA 13 Conventional Sub ARE More Than Enough For Face PAKISTAN Threat. Not any more .

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

India doesn't have an indegenious submarine? For some reason I always thought she did. Man India really needs to buckle up.

We have built indigeneous SSBN,and working on SSN.Not SSK,strange policies.Nations usually start with SSK,then go nuclear.

 

[Beast]

@Beast
Ur total fleet 51 non nuclear attack submarine . Out of which
- 13 are Ming class ssk . built in 1980 design . 35 years already . Yet PLAN claims operational ? How will you face modern day Japanese subs ? New kilo class ?

12-13 Kilo class built last one 2004 . Most of them are 20 -15 years old . With no upgrades . But credible russian submarines but old in terms of technology it was built.

Song class 13 built from 1999

13 Yan Class in service . With AIP . Respect .

Out of 51 u have 14 outded submarines . By 2030 u have to build 30 sub to maintain ur current fleet . From 2015 - 2020 5 submarines been planned by PLAN.

UR nuclear Submarine strength 8-9
Out of which 4 are HAN Class built in 70-80s design and 2 Xia Class built in 1987 . 1 was lost in accident .

And your Jin class upgraded version of Xia . Which is also old technology. With huge vibration bench mark. Your numbers just good for name sake. Not for battle. That too when you have enemies surrounding you from all sides. It's very low . Powers are determined according to the threat levels . Not random numbers . For INDIA 13 Conventional Sub ARE More Than Enough For Face PAKISTAN Threat. Not any more .

Please, the yuan production has not stopped yet and we are still producing Yuan submarine to continue upgrade. Compare to IN forever non commissioning of scorpene class

Even the last 6 Ming are build in the late 1990s and they are still very operational.

No Chinese SSN or SSBN has ever lost. Recently declassify of Chinese nuclear sub info by China(Dont listen to stupid rumour of western nonsense) We have 4 Type 093 and 4 Type 094 SSBN and new generation of Type 095 is underway. By 2025, we will have replaced 1-1 of all 90s sub with modern up to date. How does that compare to slow Induction of IN? Talking about ageing submarine fleet, IN shall look into the mirror first.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

@Beast
Ur total fleet 51 non nuclear attack submarine . Out of which
- 13 are Ming class ssk . built in 1980 design . 35 years already . Yet PLAN claims operational ? How will you face modern day Japanese subs ? New kilo class ?

12-13 Kilo class built last one 2004 . Most of them are 20 -15 years old . With no upgrades . But credible russian submarines but old in terms of technology it was built.

Song class 13 built from 1999

13 Yan Class in service . With AIP . Respect .

Out of 51 u have 14 outded submarines . By 2030 u have to build 30 sub to maintain ur current fleet . From 2015 - 2020 5 submarines been planned by PLAN.

UR nuclear Submarine strength 8-9
Out of which 4 are HAN Class built in 70-80s design and 2 Xia Class built in 1987 . 1 was lost in accident .

And your Jin class upgraded version of Xia . Which is also old technology. With huge vibration bench mark. Your numbers just good for name sake. Not for battle. That too when you have enemies surrounding you from all sides. It's very low . Powers are determined according to the threat levels . Not random numbers . For INDIA 13 Conventional Sub ARE More Than Enough For Face PAKISTAN Threat. Not any more .

Checkmate.