Questions to ask your pro-Israeli friends

[VCheng]

in the same way there never was "a nation/ country" called Israel..

That is correct. Israel was born of UN's acceptance of the same British partition plan simply because the Jewish people accepted it. The Muslim portion of the people living in Palestine rejected the same plan and chose to go to war with the help of their larger Arab brethren countries and were defeated. When they come round to accepting the administrative partition, they will probably get their own state too.

 

[Dubious]

That is correct. Israel was born of UN's acceptance of the same British partition plan simply because the Jewish people accepted it. The Muslim portion of the people living in Palestine rejected the same plan and chose to go to war with the help of their larger Arab brethren countries and were defeated. When they come round to accepting the administrative partition, they will probably get their own state too.

Its like saying if Europe to be cut from America and the Native Indians to accept it....wait they also didnt accept it...But America is not even called land of the Native Indians...

Same case with Australia and the Aborigines

Poor them their land stolen and them killed like anything...If America can justify that and blame it on some bacterial infection...I am very sure they will justify Palestine being given away and hence being the Palestinians fault for not accepting their land being given away by foreign power

Another analogy would be if some aliens came over to America (as Hollywood shows Aliens love NYC) and gives away the land to China...Americans should suck it up and accept it!

If they refrain and aliens attack them abuse them and beat em up....Americans again should shut up and eat the beating like a man!

 

[Dubious]

@Syed.Ali.Haider and someone else summarized it:

 

[VCheng]

Its like saying if Europe to be cut from America and the Native Indians to accept it....wait they also didnt accept it...But America is not even called land of the Native Indians...

Same case with Australia and the Aborigines

Poor them their land stolen and them killed like anything...If America can justify that and blame it on some bacterial infection...I am very sure they will justify Palestine being given away and hence being the Palestinians fault for not accepting their land being given away by foreign power

Another analogy would be if some aliens came over to America (as Hollywood shows Aliens love NYC) and gives away the land to China...Americans should suck it up and accept it!

If they refrain and aliens attack them abuse them and beat em up....Americans again should shut up and eat the beating like a man!

All of your analogies do not apply in this case. The British Empire wrapped up many of its dominions after WW2 in a similar fashion, and the situation in Israel is a direct result of that process, nothing else. It is meaningless to look at that situation through any prejudicial lens of ancient history or religion, and a practical solution can be found going forward only if the partition plan proposed back then is implemented by adapting it to the present day situation.

@Syed.Ali.Haider and someone else summarized it:

This summary is a good indication of just how terrible this conflict has become.

 

[shuntmaster]

That is correct. Israel was born of UN's acceptance of the same British partition plan simply because the Jewish people accepted it. The Muslim portion of the people living in Palestine rejected the same plan and chose to go to war with the help of their larger Arab brethren countries and were defeated. When they come round to accepting the administrative partition, they will probably get their own state too.

Israel existed as a nation even in 1500BC

 

[VCheng]

Israel existed as a nation even in 1500BC

The state of Israel came into formal existence only in 1948.

 

[shuntmaster]

The state of Israel came into formal existence only in 1948.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/images/kingdoms.gif

 

[Dubious]

All of your analogies do not apply in this case. The British Empire wrapped up many of its dominions after WW2 in a similar fashion, and the situation in Israel is a direct result of that process, nothing else. It is meaningless to look at that situation through any prejudicial lens of ancient history or religion, and a practical solution can be found going forward only if the partition plan proposed back then is implemented by adapting it to the present day situation.

1stly, which of the British Empire wrapped up situation is not causing chaos to the locals even in todays world? Kashmir? Labuan? Palestine? Some Islands in the Pacific while some near S.America like Falkland Islands of Argentina? Sudan? Chagos Islands? Egypt?

During the late 19th century, Africa was rapidly being occupied by European colonial powers. After the 1885 West African Berlin Conference, Europe's great powers went after any remaining lands in Africa that weren't already under another European nation's influence. This period in African history is usually called the Scramble for Africa. The two principal powers involved in this scramble were Britain and France, along with Germany, Belgium, Italy, Portugal, and Spain.

Lets see...Most of Africa and also most of S.America thanks to the Spaniards and Portuguese...

Heck even its own Scotland cant tolerate it forget looking further beyond its own boundaries!

Britain tried to play god by distributing lands as though it was its to distribute without local consent and in many cases causing war till the present day!

---- "I don't want to try to insert Britain in some leading role where, as with so many of the world's problems, we are responsible for the issue in the first place." He was speaking of Kashmir, but he might have been referring to most of the globe's war zones.

Mr Cameron's unexpected admission of British culpability, while admirable, makes him seem like someone on a 12-step recovery programme who is not willing to go all the way. He has partially subscribed to one step: "Make a list of all the persons we have harmed, and become willing to make amends to them all." However, he is ignoring another, just as important: "Make direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so is to injure them or others."

To make amends everywhere would keep Cameron on the road forever, with most of his time devoted to the Middle East.

Read more: Britain can never atone for its colonial past | The National


You can read the whole article...But of course a Pakistani passport holder saying all that is equal to conspiracy ...though the article is about Kashmir it can be stretched to every other damned state that the British tried to play god in!

Each bitchy colonial power should pay heaps for all the mischief they caused, left unearthed and also those after affects that followed.....Instead bastards are crying when the same people whose countries they divided and broke are trying to inhabit their land...well why not? Esp since you started all the damned wars on theirs ...

It is rather surprising how Germany was punished and all its colonies were not as badly screwed while neither of the rest of the bastards' mess were either acknowledged nor punished!

 

[VCheng]

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/images/kingdoms.gif

That map and any claims based on it are meaningless in the present context.

1stly, which of the British Empire wrapped up situation is not causing chaos to the locals even in todays world? Kashmir? Labuan? Palestine? Some Islands in the Pacific while some near S.America like Falkland Islands of Argentina? Sudan? Chagos Islands? Egypt?

That is a fair point, but history tells us that the aftermath of the fall of any major empire is messy. The same thing applies to the British Empire, just like it does to many others prior to it.

 

[Dubious]

That is a fair point, but history tells us that the aftermath of the fall of any major empire is messy. The same thing applies to the British Empire, just like it does to many others prior to it.

Fair enough but History also tells us that people learn not hence American pull out in Afghanistan post cold war came back haunting it.....American post Iraq is now suffering and still is ....American post Afghanistan is along the same lines...

Why dont idiots learn something?! power, greed comes at a price sadly the price is paid by the inhabitants of the land the idiots drooled over!

Same goes for Palestine!

 

[VCheng]

Fair enough but History also tells us that people learn not hence American pull out in Afghanistan post cold war came back haunting it.....American post Iraq is now suffering and still is ....American post Afghanistan is along the same lines...

Why dont idiots learn something?! power, greed comes at a price sadly the price is paid by the inhabitants of the land the idiots drooled over!

Same goes for Palestine!

Human history is full of such stories of power and greed. Why should the present be any different from all that history tells us?

 

[Irfan Baloch]

some of (if not all) my Indian friends find it compelling to support and justify Israeli bombing of Gaza because we are supporting the Palestinians.

but the Europeans are not inflicted by such obsession and its surprising how many of them are openly showing their distaste and revulsion towards Israeli excesses although many of them keep quiet or support Israel just for being PC and not be labelled antisemitic

 

[Jf Thunder]

Palestinian aggression against Israel caused 700 thousand Arab refugees and 850 thousand Jewish refugees. Tiny Israel absorbed their refugees, there is no any reason why 22 huge Arab countries cant absorb their.


Israel pulled settlements out of Gaza and got thousands of rockets and tunnel attacks in return.


Settlements cover tiny percent of total territories. And if Israel annexes territories then its the best thing that only could happen to Palestinians: they will became Israeli citizens with all rights and welf support.


Ditto.


Ditto.


What atrocities? Spare of that nonsense.


That report is a joke, made by joke UN human right commission, with only one intention: bash Israel. It its basically just a collection of legends. Goldstone himself admitted that: ‘If This Was a Court Of Law, There Would Have Been Nothing Proven.’


Unlike Gaza Israel has freedom of speech. So its natural that there are people with different opinions. Personally I also support Palestinian rights.


Oil.


Nonsense. Jews are discriminated, because they have to serve in army while Arabs are not.


Those who blow up markets and fire indiscriminate rockets are real terrorists, no "so called".

yes, and bombing innocent civilians, mosques and schools is real courage, no?

 

[Dubious]

Human history is full of such stories of power and greed. Why should the present be any different from all that history tells us?

Well coz the present calls itself civilized....and with the present day knowledge one should conjure up the power to differentiate right from wrong

 

[VCheng]

Well coz the present calls itself civilized....and with the present day knowledge one should conjure up the power to differentiate right from wrong

Again, every Empire in human history at its zenith thinks of itself in those terms. Just what is civilization?