Akbar and other Mughals

[TopCat]

That was true that Indians did wear clothes long before Mogul came. But my point was those trades gets its volume and institutonalized under mogul rule. Dhaka and Murshidabad was built under mogul. Also mogul paved the way of large number of middle eastern trader who used to trade Indian items to europe. European market opened up under mogul rule.

 

[KSRaj]

That was true that Indians did wear clothes long before Mogul came. But my point was those trades gets its volume and institutonalized under mogul rule. Dhaka and Murshidabad was built under mogul. Also mogul paved the way of large number of middle eastern trader who used to trade Indian items to europe. European market opened up under mogul rule.

You didnt bother reading what I posted, didnt you? :-(

 

[vandemataram]

ehhh sorry to burst your bubble I am a PATHAN and thank God i have no link with whatsoever with Indian blood

But oh yeh may be my ancestors did attack India from Afghanistan

anyway what modern history you want to teach us ?

So which India are you talking about ms Jana ? So I am to understand that you are a descendant of the invaders?

 

[third eye]

We are talking about the roots Sir and by no chance NO aspect Mughals have ever been Indians or for that matter Indian Hindus.


I would certainly consider the Kelashs' as Pakistanis but if you want me to consider Alexander as a Pakistani just because he landed here then well i think such a notion is either result of some intefriority complex or just an ostrich like attitude.

Well, if 'roots'did not grow from 1526 to 1857 and beyond whilst the Mughals ruled India either in part of full then then I agree with you they are not Indian.

Did any of the Mughals go back to central Asia ? What should we call them ? Outsiders who founded a dynasty and stayed on or one of us ? By the way, going by this analogy none of the people living in the USA would be Americans.

Perish the thought of inferiority complex when we discuss India. There is no nation who ( should) know this better than Pk.

Its just about assimilating all those who come to the land & make it their home... and it is nothing to do with being an Ostrich, its about removing blinkers.

 

[dvk1982]

India is earning huge revenue in terms of tourism from these places.

On another note India was developed by invaders mostly.


And yes we also agree that Mughals have only spent a luxurious life nothing else.

And on another note Ashoka wasnt a Hindu

And what was Goutam Buddha ??? before Ashoka became Buddhist ???

As I said, religion is just a belief.... religious fanatics think world starts and ends with one religion and one belief....

 

[eastwatch]

LOL what rubbish. Did you just make up all of that, or do they teach this nonsense in your school?

Why it is rubbish? In the west the Afghans were Budhists before the arrival of Islam. In the east many Bangalis were also Budhists before the arrival of Islam. These Budhists had a clear idea of one God. Hindu Brahmins tormented and forced them to come back to the fold of Hinduism, but only as low class Sudra, although many of these Budhists were not Sudra when a few hundred years back their forefathers accepted Budhism.

So, after the arrival of Afghan Turkic Muslims in Bengal under the leadership of Ikhtiar-ud-Din Muhammed Bakhtiar in 1198, these enlightened Budhists took shelter in Islam to safeguard their prestige, as well as their belief in one God. Western part of Pakistan and Bangladesh still have many Budhist Monasteries to prove that one God-centered Budhism was widespread in these regions and these Budhists accepted Islam as their religion.

I understand, your Hindu mythology says that the MLECCHO Muslims forced the Hindus to accept Islam. It is less true, and more true is that mostly the Budhists accepted Islam willingly in Hindustan. I have read also a Bengali poem written in early 13th Century whereby the Budhists are praising Islam, how it has saved them from the Brahminical tyranny and how it is easy for them to understand one-god concept of Islam.

 

[toxic_pus]

ehhh sorry to burst your bubble I am a PATHAN and thank God i have no link with whatsoever with Indian blood

i consider it important to remind you before you try to tell me anything about Indian/Hindu blood. I aint have any of these.

Since we are on a bubble bursting spree, let me try and burst yours too.

In 2001-02 Mr Raheel Qamar et.al studied the y-chromosomal DNA variations among various ethnic groups of Pakistan. They studied 718 persons from 12 ethnic groups, including Pathans. They made certain interesting discoveries. They found, that there are 5 haplogroups that are common among almost all Pakistanis. Haplogroups 1, 2, 3, and 9 constitute about 79% of Pakistani population. Since these haplogroups are “frequent in western Asia and Europe but not in China or Japan”, it means that “Pakistani populations mostly cluster around a pooled South Asian sample and lie close to a Middle Eastern sample”. The reason, however is “because Y variation in many areas of the world is predominantly structured by geography, not by language or ethnic affiliation”. The fifth common Haplogroup is Haplogroup 28 and is found among 14% of Pakistani population.

It is this Haplogroup 28 that is your ‘Indian connection’ or in your words ‘Indian/Hindu blood’. It is found in 30% of Indian and as one goes to the west, it gradually decreases (Pakistan – 14%, Tajikistan – 10%, Uzbekistan – 3%), finally almost disappearing in Europe (Russia – 0.4%, Caucasus – 1.4%).

But where do Pathans stand in all this. Well, bang in the middle. About 13% of Pathans show presence of Hap 28, which is almost the national average.[Look for Chart F and code PKH] The only ethnic groups that show some isolation and are pretty distinct are the Hazaras, not the Pathans. Although Hazaras and Pathans have more affinity to West Asians, Pathans are still as much ‘Indian’ as any other Pakistani is.

May be its not yet time to thank 'God' for your lack of 'India/Hindu blood'. What say you?

But oh yeh may be my ancestors did attack India from Afghanistan

and oh even if my ancestors attacked currrent day Pakistan it proves they were good warriors

While they were at it, they plundered, slaughtered, proselytized and raped the region that is now Pakistan. So yes they were good warriors along with being 'good' plunderers, 'good' murderers and not to forget, 'good' rapists.

Let me grab my popcorn bowel. Response to this post may just turn out to be too entertaining to miss.

 

[toxic_pus]

Why it is rubbish? In the west the Afghans were Budhists before the arrival of Islam. In the east many Bangalis were also Budhists before the arrival of Islam. These Budhists had a clear idea of one God. Hindu Brahmins tormented and forced them to come back to the fold of Hinduism, but only as low class Sudra, although many of these Budhists were not Sudra when a few hundred years back their forefathers accepted Budhism.

So, after the arrival of Afghan Turkic Muslims in Bengal under the leadership of Ikhtiar-ud-Din Muhammed Bakhtiar in 1198, these enlightened Budhists took shelter in Islam to safeguard their prestige, as well as their belief in one God. Western part of Pakistan and Bangladesh still have many Budhist Monasteries to prove that one God-centered Budhism was widespread in these regions and these Budhists accepted Islam as their religion.

I understand, your Hindu mythology says that the MLECCHO Muslims forced the Hindus to accept Islam. It is less true, and more true is that mostly the Budhists accepted Islam willingly in Hindustan. I have read also a Bengali poem written in early 13th Century whereby the Budhists are praising Islam, how it has saved them from the Brahminical tyranny and how it is easy for them to understand one-god concept of Islam.

Buddhism doesn't have the concept of 'GOD' in sense that other religion perceives - omnipotent, omnipresent, omni-this and omni-that - let alone 'one god'. Buddhism is atheistic at best and pantheistic at worse.

 

[ice_man]

Blamiing marathas for famine remains as ur favorite fantasy...sorry iajdani ,india didnt suffer any major famines anywhere neither during the Mugal nor the maratha rule.

All famine occured after british asendancy in Bengal with the British presidency from 1760 onwards.

See how britishers are responsible for catastrofic famine ....

Bengal famine of 1770 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

true that the famine happened after the BRITISH came in but they were allowed in by the HINDUS.....the hindu rulers wanted the british to help them overthrow the mughals......and then again even in the 1880's revolt the hindus betrayed the Bahdur Shah Zafar

 

[ice_man]

^Well Thank You Shah Jahan, for your amazing planning and vision to built a potential tourist trap that would earn profits after 400 years.

If by invaders you mean British, then yes I agree. But under Mughals this country (and that includes Pakistan and Bangladesh mind you) fell behind both Europe and China in development.

Yes Ashoka was buddhist. Your point?

how so did the country fall back under the moghuls? i think moghuls came and civilized the land and ended the constant battle amongst tribes.....and under moghuls arts,culture litreature progressed isn't that what the whole European Renaissance was all about ?

 

[ice_man]

Since we are on a bubble bursting spree, let me try and burst yours too.

In 2001-02 Mr Raheel Qamar et.al studied the y-chromosomal DNA variations among various ethnic groups of Pakistan. They studied 718 persons from 12 ethnic groups, including Pathans. They made certain interesting discoveries. They found, that there are 5 haplogroups that are common among almost all Pakistanis. Haplogroups 1, 2, 3, and 9 constitute about 79% of Pakistani population. Since these haplogroups are “frequent in western Asia and Europe but not in China or Japan”, it means that “Pakistani populations mostly cluster around a pooled South Asian sample and lie close to a Middle Eastern sample”. The reason, however is “because Y variation in many areas of the world is predominantly structured by geography, not by language or ethnic affiliation”. The fifth common Haplogroup is Haplogroup 28 and is found among 14% of Pakistani population.

It is this Haplogroup 28 that is your ‘Indian connection’ or in your words ‘Indian/Hindu blood’. It is found in 30% of Indian and as one goes to the west, it gradually decreases (Pakistan – 14%, Tajikistan – 10%, Uzbekistan – 3%), finally almost disappearing in Europe (Russia – 0.4%, Caucasus – 1.4%).

But where do Pathans stand in all this. Well, bang in the middle. About 13% of Pathans show presence of Hap 28, which is almost the national average.[Look for Chart F and code PKH] The only ethnic groups that show some isolation and are pretty distinct are the Hazaras, not the Pathans. Although Hazaras and Pathans have more affinity to West Asians, Pathans are still as much ‘Indian’ as any other Pakistani is.

May be its not yet time to thank 'God' for your lack of 'India/Hindu blood'. What say you?



While they were at it, they plundered, slaughtered, proselytized and raped the region that is now Pakistan. So yes they were good warriors along with being 'good' plunderers, 'good' murderers and not to forget, 'good' rapists.

Let me grab my popcorn bowel. Response to this post may just turn out to be too entertaining to miss.

Pathans are a very large tribe....and they are closely related to the central asian people of khorasan.....for that matter people like SHARKUH,SALMAN,SAIF claim to be pathans...even irfan PATANS...or zaheer khan....

Khan is a name that was given to people who collaborated with the BRITISH.....just like the british made there servants wear clothing similar to moghuls inorder to ridicule the culture...and heritage.....

so the so called "PATHAN" sample needs to be defined before researched on.

 

[ice_man]

There is no HINDU point of view or MUSLIM point of view.. it's only INDIAN point of view. He's the most secular Mughal emperor when compared to others, period.

PS: Secularism is the backbone of India.

hmmm SECULARISM.....ok golden temple attack in 84,babri masjid in 90's gujarat massacre in 2000's and assam killing of chirstians....now all these cases were carried out by HINDUS and remain unsolved hell people like ADVANI ran for presidency and he is supposed to be the main culprit for the babri masjid....JAGDISH tytler is a free man so is NARINDER MODI......while DAUD IBRAHIM is wanted lol!!!

varun gandhi won his seat!!!!! lol SECULARISM yes next i know TALIBAN will be secular too given such drastic facts!!!

 

[third eye]

hmmm SECULARISM.....ok golden temple attack in 84,babri masjid in 90's gujarat massacre in 2000's and assam killing of chirstians....now all these cases were carried out by HINDUS and remain unsolved hell people like ADVANI ran for presidency and he is supposed to be the main culprit for the babri masjid....JAGDISH tytler is a free man so is NARINDER MODI......while DAUD IBRAHIM is wanted lol!!!

varun gandhi won his seat!!!!! lol SECULARISM yes next i know TALIBAN will be secular too given such drastic facts!!!

Isn't it surprising that despite all this India is in its original shape while others splintered around them ?

 

[ice_man]

lol@Taj Mahal. Taj Mahal was built for the pleasure of Shah Jahan. It had no benefit for the people of India whatsoever.

Look at the contrast. Ashoka built hospitals while Mughals built tombs and palaces.

lol asoka is the worst example you can give after the battle of kalinga he killed a 100,000 innocent people for no reason!!! he did so much of a blood bath that he himself got tired of it eventually and took up Buddhism!!

the moghuls gave you your cusinie they made all the small quarreling tribes unite under there banner!

under the moguls bloodshed was not a common practice.....

 

[ice_man]

Isn't it surprising that despite all this India is in its original shape while others splintered around them ?

no it is not surprising my friend indian media and intelligence agencies insure that countries around india are not left at peace and are hindered from progressing.....

and before you come back with pakistan does it too!!! well yes we do both countries are playing with fire.....and both will eventually suffer....so i hope sanity prevails and both countries act responsibly....