Akbar and other Mughals

[Spring Onion]

I'm afraid that its you who has some sort of complex regarding your views about "Hindu Indians".

there is nothing special about Hindus which could send a person like me into any kind of complex

People have migrated into Indians throughout history. First they migrated from Africa, then they migrate from Central Asia, then the vedic Aryans, the Hunas, Scythians, numerous Afghan, Persian and Turkic tribes, Mughals, Parsis, Syrian Christians etc. etc. You are conveniently labeling those migrants whom YOU identify with as "outsiders" to India.

Well let me tell you something Mr. Jana, and I'll be using YOUR LOGIC to prove my point. The whole ideology of Pakistan, Islam, is completely foreign to Pakistan. There's nothing remotely Pakistani about it. Those who brought this Islam to Pakistan were not only outsiders to Pakistan, but were among the most ruthless and violent men that ever existed. They looted, plundered and raped with abandon, and they destroyed the civilization that existed, replacing it with their own imperialist ideology. Ironically, you worship those very same people as the "bringers of civilization". What a sad tragedy.

Let me tell YOU something Mr you know for us being Muslims Pakistan is our identity and Islam is our ideology.

Once you become a Muslim you are part of this Ummah simple as that.

And for your information we do not call Mughals as Pakistanis unlike the Indians who are trying to cover up their centuries-old complex by claiming to be decendents of Central Asians which indeed they are not.

They did not migrated rather they invaded you and once they grabbed your land they steped in.


Regrads

Ms Jana

 

[TopCat]

Blamiing marathas for famine remains as ur favorite fantasy...sorry iajdani ,india didnt suffer any major famines anywhere neither during the Mugal nor the maratha rule.

All famine occured after british asendancy in Bengal with the British presidency from 1760 onwards.

See how britishers are responsible for catastrofic famine ....

Bengal famine of 1770 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That is not currect. Most of the famine in 18th and early 19th century were under marattan rules. I gave you all the list in the other threads.

 

[Spring Onion]

Anyone who came to India and became one of us was / is an Indian. There are countless examples .. anglo Indians, parsis, french and so on. No country is an island and even Islands have all sorts of mixes.

We all are a mix of centuries of amalgamations. Even today traces of alexanders troops ( lineage ) are found in Pk. Wouldn't you consider them pakistanis ? Religion has no place in nationality.

We are talking about the roots Sir and by no chance NO aspect Mughals have ever been Indians or for that matter Indian Hindus.


I would certainly consider the Kelashs' as Pakistanis but if you want me to consider Alexander as a Pakistani just because he landed here then well i think such a notion is either result of some intefriority complex or just an ostrich like attitude.

 

[TopCat]

Mogul is a institution rather than just few invaders. Yes Babur was a outsider but Akbar and onwards are definitely Indians. Also a governement and army does not only made of the ruler but millions of people are involved who are basically Indians. So the Mogul rule was driven by Indians only.

 

[jarnee]

A'Zeb was devout & all but over did a few things. Killed his own brother & jailed his father. Dara was the rightful emperor no AZ. Not very muslim like I must say!

Has Dara shikoh survived and been an emperor ..he would have ended the Islam in SE asia as we know today..he was mixing Isalm's good things with Hindu's good practices. ..religion known as "Din eh Illa hi" ...maybe then lot of Hindus would have adopted to that ..who knows.. but i am sure ..history would have been different so would have been the present ...but as they say by gones are by gones

 

[Khajur]

the problem with the Hindu Indians is that they have some kind of complex. Those who invaded India were NEVER Indians or locals its another thing that many Indians trying to prove themselves the siblings of central asians lolzz


come on eastwatch i was not insulting them rather i am saying that those were outsiders NOT INDIANS

They were never pakistanis either... so why so pakistani live with this stupid notion that they ruled in for many centuries...though fact is that they its the foreigners from Mahmud of Ghazni who over throw hindu shahi empire ruling in current day pakistan to Turkmen/moghul Babar had no bearing with pakistan.

If just because they were followers of islam can any muslim say actually their ancentors were ruling india..??.in the same token may be a convert in tamilnadu or pashtun in pakistan say his ancestors were Beduins of Arabia. There may be some arab or Turkmen/moghul blood among the current citizens subcontinets but thats very negligible.

 

[Khajur]

That is not currect. Most of the famine in 18th and early 19th century were under marattan rules. I gave you all the list in the other threads.

If dont u want accept history aganist ur religious discomfort, its ur problem.BTW Britishers were christian protestants.

 

[toxic_pus]

there is nothing special about Hindus which could send a person like me into any kind of complex

But your posts - not just in this thread - speak of something else, of a 'Hindu India' fetish.

People have migrated into Indians throughout history. First they migrated from Africa, then they migrate from Central Asia, then the vedic Aryans, the Hunas, Scythians, numerous Afghan, Persian and Turkic tribes, Mughals, Parsis, Syrian Christians etc. etc. You are conveniently labeling those migrants whom YOU identify with as "outsiders" to India.

Well let me tell you something Mr. Jana, and I'll be using YOUR LOGIC to prove my point. The whole ideology of Pakistan, Islam, is completely foreign to Pakistan. There's nothing remotely Pakistani about it. Those who brought this Islam to Pakistan were not only outsiders to Pakistan, but were among the most ruthless and violent men that ever existed. They looted, plundered and raped with abandon, and they destroyed the civilization that existed, replacing it with their own imperialist ideology. Ironically, you worship those very same people as the "bringers of civilization". What a sad tragedy.

Let me tell YOU something Mr you know for us being Muslims Pakistan is our identity and Islam is our ideology.

Once you become a Muslim you are part of this Ummah simple as that.

And for your information we do not call Mughals as Pakistanis unlike the Indians who are trying to cover up their centuries-old complex by claiming to be decendents of Central Asians which indeed they are not.

They did not migrated rather they invaded you and once they grabbed your land they steped in.


Regrads

Ms Jana

Your inability to provide a counter argument, other than emotional and sentimental nonsense, is noted.

 

[Khajur]

We are talking about the roots Sir and by no chance NO aspect Mughals have ever been Indians or for that matter Indian Hindus.


I would certainly consider the Kelashs' as Pakistanis but if you want me to consider Alexander as a Pakistani just because he landed here then well i think such a notion is either result of some intefriority complex or just an ostrich like attitude.

well, from the third generation onward , Moghul Emperor Jahangir whose mother was a hindu rajput woman, Moghul rules were as naturalised indian as any other indian national.

 

[PostColonial]

Eh? Even the British didn't rule the whole of India for their entire tenure. However, they managed to make India one of the poorest places on the planet by the end of their tenure.

You again seem to be slipping into your imagination in order to prove your superiority.

Tell me, Mr. Iajdani, name ONE significant scientific discovery or accomplishment of the Mughal rulers. Comeon. I challenge you.

Anyways, you are right about the Marathas. They were basically warriors with little knowledge of science, government, institutions, economics or culture. However, they were the one of the first indigenous attempts to stake claim on this land for many centuries, and their ignorance just shows how much the centuries of Mughal rule had made Indians backward and ignorant.

 

[TopCat]

If dont u want accept history aganist ur religious discomfort, its ur problem.BTW Britishers were christian protestants.

We know what brits is all about. We are talking about Mogul taking India backward when it should have been a Rennaissance like Europe. Well Rennaissance in europe came after mogul or at the end of mogul.
Secondly its you who are trying comfort with your religion. I dont have to as we already have.

 

[Khajur]

But your posts - not just in this thread - speak of something else, of a 'Hindu India' fetish.

Your inability to provide a counter argument, other than emotional and sentimental nonsense, is noted.

some still suffers from the propaganda virus spread on other pakistani forums where no substantial indian counter arguments are allowed.

In a way,this forum which open a fair dabate may help to bust to those myths long hold as well researched modern history among general pakistani populous.

 

[TopCat]

Eh? Even the British didn't rule the whole of India for their entire tenure. However, they managed to make India one of the poorest places on the planet by the end of their tenure.

You again seem to be slipping into your imagination in order to prove your superiority.

Tell me, Mr. Iajdani, name ONE significant scientific discovery or accomplishment of the Mughal rulers. Comeon. I challenge you.

Anyways, you are right about the Marathas. They were basically warriors with little knowledge of science, government, institutions, economics or culture. However, they were the one of the first indigenous attempts to stake claim on this land for many centuries, and their ignorance just shows how much the centuries of Mughal rule had made Indians backward and ignorant.

Well steam engine was discovered long after Mogul. Mogul did not invent anything as they were not scientist or philosopher but they did introduce some advance technology in Farming like irrigation, communication networks, good governance and brought India some affluence. British parliament had to introduce legislature for stopping Indian clothing flourishing european market. Indian silk and muslin was known all over the world that time. Columbus set sail for India at the time of Mogul and invented America.
Yes whether you like it or not, Mogul did brought modernity in Indian society and brought betterment in the day to day life in ordinary Indians.

 

[Khajur]

We know what brits is all about. We are talking about Mogul taking India backward when it should have been a Rennaissance like Europe. Well Rennaissance in europe came after mogul or at the end of mogul.
Secondly its you who are trying comfort with your religion. I dont have to as we already have.

sometime u talk about famine...and sometime Rennaissance..as i said there was no Rennaissance or famine on the other hand before the rise of ruling British colonial empire...and its actually the British policies were responsible for the famine as they occured during their rules in mostly their territories.

 

[PostColonial]

Well steam engine was discovered long after Mogul. Mogul did not invent anything as they were not scientist or philosopher but they did introduce some advance technology in Farming like irrigation, communication networks, good governance and brought India some affluence. British parliament had to introduce legislature for stopping Indian clothing flourishing european market. Indian silk and muslin was known all over the world that time. Columbus set sail for India at the time of Mogul and invented America.
Yes whether you like it or not, Mogul did brought modernity in Indian society and brought betterment in the day to day life in ordinary Indians.

Its not about the steam engine friend. Europe had seen its scientific institutions begin to flourish way back in the 12th century, when they began to to import knowledge from the middle east and improve upon it. By contrast, North Indian scientific institutions and centers of learing (Mathura, Ujjain, Varanasi, etc.) went into terminal decline and their scientific output went to zero, thanks to the Mughals who wanted nothing to do with them. The great gametic cities atrophied and declined into ghosts of their former past.

Also, the Mughals did not 'bring affluence' to India. India was always an affluent place (in relative terms of course).

Irrigation? LOL..are you joking? Are you suggesting that Indians did not know about irrigation befor the Mughals? Let me tell you, the first dam in India was the Grand Anicut, built by the Chola king Karikalan in the 2nd century BC.

Read:
Grand Anicut - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sorry do disappoint you, but the Mughals did ZERO to develop India. Whatever they did do, other empires did far better in the same time frame. Infact, the Mughals presided over the most spectacular decline in learning and science of Indian history.

The most enlightened Mughal (Akbar) was an illiterate. Need I say more?