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Pakistan's "battlefield" nukes risk nuclear war: IISS think tank

Firstly there is no need to bring the past and call names to people who are revered by us.This behoves a singular oack of insight into history. My friend you do wear some wierdly coloured glasses.
War in the modern context is now a name of winning at all costs. The killing of masses of people whether they ve yours or ours has sadly become irrelevant. Talk to your army people and see how civil they are when it comes to war. If you dont like it make peace and settle the Kashmir dispute in an amicable way, stop stealing our water and be just. Let us see how far you get with this idea in India. However dont blame me for any chanakya DNA that gets drilled into you. By the way the next sly remark that you make against our Prophet whom you have quoted without knowledge wi secure your permanent ejection from this forum. So be careful my friend!!! Be very very CAREFUL.
Araz

you are calling Indians thieves. if you want to dish this cr@p out be prepared to take some truth, instead of threatening me.
to me, your so called prophet is not worth a quote from me. and before you come to me, tell your people who insult our national icons like Modi and Gandhi who we hold in higher esteem.

thank God we saperate from u guys .. such a cheap mentality ..may be u r complex bcoz we musliums rule u for 1000 years .. hindus were our darbaris .. btw india was alot better then ..


..

slight difference.. muslims ruled parts of india . but that was not you muslims, you are the by products of those muslims.
 
Firstly there is no need to bring the past and call names to people who are revered by us.This behoves a singular oack of insight into history. My friend you do wear some wierdly coloured glasses.
War in the modern context is now a name of winning at all costs. The killing of masses of people whether they ve yours or ours has sadly become irrelevant. Talk to your army people and see how civil they are when it comes to war. If you dont like it make peace and settle the Kashmir dispute in an amicable way, stop stealing our water and be just. Let us see how far you get with this idea in India. However dont blame me for any chanakya DNA that gets drilled into you. By the way the next sly remark that you make against our Prophet whom you have quoted without knowledge wi secure your permanent ejection from this forum. So be careful my friend!!! Be very very CAREFUL.
Araz

Can you debunk the arguments presented by wikislam ?Because thats an eye opener.
 
Sure! In an armoured thrust by India, use the tactical nukes and Radiate your own Punjabi heartland.:yahoo:

We lose a couple of thousand soldiers while you lose millions to Radiation and poison your land for all times to come.

Typical Punjabi Muslim thinking. Cant see beyond your nose.



Tactical nukes will have to be used on your own land if India invades. Ready to radiate your country for killing a few thousand Indian soldiers?

LOL kiddo if u dont know the nukes will be used in desert areas. Go and read Cold start doctrine and where it will be applied.

In our Agricultural heartland we r more then capable of deterring any attack from u.
 
In a speech in 1967, Defense Secretary Robert McNamara described how the U.S. achieved nuclear deterrence through MAD: “We do this by maintaining a highly reliable ability to inflict unacceptable damage upon any single aggressor or combination of aggressors at any time during the course of a strategic nuclear exchange, even after absorbing a surprise first strike.”

There are many in India, including their senior generals and intelligentsia, who profess that while Pakistan would be destroyed completely, India would still be able to absorb the nuclear strike being a much larger country.

Probably in order to enhance its nuclear deterrence levels, Pakistan is increasing its nuclear arsenal manifolds. So that, in a nuclear MAD environment, Pakistan would be able to target a minimum of 57 Indian cities having more than 1 million population. All major ports. All military infrastructure, including army concentrations, airfields, military industrial and nuclear complexes, all naval bases and assets. Industrial infrastructure. Command, Control and Communication infrastructure. All known nuclear weapon manufacturing, storage and launch sites and assets. Economic hubs. Major Dams and water storage sites. Please do include what I may have forgotten. What would remain is a large population who may not even find nuclear pollution free water to drink. Not much nuclear radiation free space for agriculture. No more medical facilities to treat the millions and millions who would suffer from related illness and decease. No more emergency services to respond and help the remaining population. No more government left to organize the response. The aftermath would be far more worse that the initial nuclear strikes.

India can do the same to Pakistan.

Would this destroy Pakistan or India completely – No it won’t. Both will have to rebuild. Pakistan being a smaller country having lesser population and needs would have to make comparatively lesser efforts than India. India on the other hand would have to undertake a massive effort in order to reach the stage and re-acquire and rebuild the same infrastructure.

This is for those, who seek advantages in a foolhardy theory that India would be able to absorb a Pakistani nuclear strike and would only be badly wounded, whereas, Pakistan would be totally destroyed. Has anyone of you visited Hiroshima and Nagasaki recently – they are bustling cities, even after being bombed.

Was it General Zia who told Rajiv Gandhi during his cricket diplomacy visit in India that, whereas there are 57 Muslims countries, one less would be 56 – there is only one Hindu India, one less would be nothing left. Irrespective of the religiosity factor, who would suffer more in the aftermath is indeed a moot point.

India and Indians should understand one thing very clearly. If pushed to a stage, Pakistan would respond with a massive nuclear strike against India irrespective of what happens the day after. Let the sufferers decide who suffered more.
 
A rather odd statement. A military force is prepared to respond to multiple threats against a country. Preparatory measures against threats are undertaken to respond against capabilities and not intent. Intention without capability is daydreaming which could be countered with counter-dreaming. Insurgencies are threats which can be diluted, controlled or eliminated and are generally temporary in nature. Threats from hostile neighbours are existential. Even if peace prevails between two countries, the need for a military force do not diminish for the defence of a country.

Therefore, stating that because there are additional training courses against terrorism are being imparted to cadets or other echelons of the army, it does not mean that the army has shifted its essence from defence against external threats. One needs to understand that external threats would always be existential with varying degrees of relevance, the insurgencies etc are temporary threats for which the military should be ready for respond and such a readiness or preparation may not be taken as a shift in threat parameters and its assessment.

Nassr, our military has had a very narrow focus on training. First it was mostly against our archenemy India in terms of conventional warfare now that is shifting the upper echelons are allowing for the cadets not to see India as the main threat meaning the defence posture is shifting.

Secondly, our army is not a traditional one. The civilian government has a tenous hold on the military as of yet so it is not the government that tells the army the defence policy rather the other way round.
 
........and India is 'NOT' developing the so called 'battlefield nukes' ? - Hypocrisy at best.

Hey Dude, the tech for them alraedy exists. Just that the Indian Nuclear Doctrine does not consider them to be of any appreciable value. Because TacNukes are just "the ultimate Hara-Kiri or Suicide Weapon". Which is precisely the point that the report by the International Institute for Strategic Studies in London says.

You did'nt get it yet? :D
 
Nassr, our military has had a very narrow focus on training. First it was mostly against our archenemy India in terms of conventional warfare now that is shifting the upper echelons are allowing for the cadets not to see India as the main threat meaning the defence posture is shifting.

Secondly, our army is not a traditional one. The civilian government has a tenous hold on the military as of yet so it is not the government that tells the army the defence policy rather the other way round.

Hey @jaibi amigo; what you speak of reminds me of the saying about the Prussian Republic, i.e. the Army that has a Country not the Country that has an Army! That is also the story of Pakistan. Which is why time and again, the Army has led its Country in to sheer stupid misadventures. And who picked up the tab for all that? The hapless Awaam !!!Did they ever count for anything?

Now @Nassr is fervently and feverishly hoping that one country will come out better in this exchange of Armageddon!!!
I can only laugh at it all!!!!!!
Small is no advantage. If anything at all, its a terrible disadvantage. Simply because, one has little place to manuever; to the extent of even finding no place to hide!! Or no place to find any alternative area to shelter, cultivate or just exist!!!

Even hopefulness has its limits of absurdity after all.............

Unfortunately, Nuclear Annihilation is the only language India understands.

Sad, really.

LOLLLL, and what language do you guys understand??
Amusing really, ain't it! :D
 
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Unfortunately, Nuclear Annihilation is the only language India understands.

Sad, really.

What is even worse, is that you don't even understand that and continue to lower your nuclear thresh hold. Thinking you can shield your terrorist activities and military adventures under a nuclear umbrella.
 
Nassr, our military has had a very narrow focus on training. First it was mostly against our archenemy India in terms of conventional warfare now that is shifting the upper echelons are allowing for the cadets not to see India as the main threat meaning the defence posture is shifting.

Secondly, our army is not a traditional one. The civilian government has a tenous hold on the military as of yet so it is not the government that tells the army the defence policy rather the other way round.

Since long, the military threat assessment intrinsically include the internal as well as external threats. At times when it is assessed that one of the types related to internal threats needs a military response, and if it is considered necessary, appropriate training is imparted. Fighting an insurgency needs a dynamic form of response. The insurgent keeps on changing its tactics and at times they achieve the surprise and thus the soldiers suffer casualties. This does not mean that they are not trained. They learn and adjust and try and remain ahead of the insurgent through a variety of means.

Saying that the army's focus on the type of training is narrow or traditional, is an incorrect assumption. And the defence posture is also not shifting - it is merely adjusting to include new forms of threat and needed response.

You may not agree with me but I know what I am talking about - in most western and democratic countries of the world, it is the armed forces who write the defence policies or suggest related postures, forward these to their governments, who approve these and issue them under their signatures.
 
What is even worse, is that you don't even understand that and continue to lower your nuclear thresh hold. Thinking you can shield your terrorist activities and military adventures under a nuclear umbrella.

Please read this and understand what are Pakistan's nuclear thresholds - I wonder if you would understand what is written.

Exploring Pakistan’s Nuclear Thresholds – Analysis

Exploring Pakistan's Nuclear Thresholds - Analysis Eurasia Review
By Khan A. Sufyan

Recent testing of short range ballistic and cruise missiles by Pakistan has initiated a debate in India regarding possible use of battlefield tactical nuclear weapons by Pakistan and the strategic instability it has caused. Pakistan’s declared nuclear format clearly indicates deterrence against conventional as well as nuclear threat. To provide credibility to such deterrence a full spectrum response capability is essential which also devolves around the principle difference between the use of tactical nuclear weapons and tactical use of nuclear weapons.

Contrarily, the Indians state that their nuclear capability principally acts as deterrence against the use of nuclear weapons by any adversary. This clearly indicates that against Pakistan they intend to fight a conventional war using their superior conventional forces. An attempt to acquire anti-ballistic missile defence capability is also indicative of such intent.

Various Indian Defence Ministers and Chiefs of Army Staffs, on different occasions have stated that all wars fought between India and Pakistan were limited in nature and that limited wars are possible in future also, under a nuclear overhang. It has been further qualified that the limited war would be fought for attainment of shallow objectives, while remaining short of Pakistan’s nuclear thresholds.

Accurate identification of an adversary’s nuclear thresholds is indeed a difficult proposition. Though the nuclear policies and various strategies guiding nuclear responses have relatively been well profiled by various nuclear weapon states, the thresholds however, have never been made public in the manner. More often than not, this ambiguity is deliberately left in order to cause uncertainty in adversary’s decision making calculus. This may force imposition of restrictions as to how deep or shallow the objectives of attacking forces may have to be.

In India – Pakistan nuclear environment as well, such circumspection has apparently added to the deterrence value and may dictate the duration, thrusts and locations in the application of forces. An examination of Pakistan’s possible nuclear thresholds will be in order to see if the Indian doctrine of conventional war under nuclear overhang is at all valid.

A Pre-emptive Response Threshold (PRT) may be evoked against Indian actions that may be premeditated, pre-emptive, incautious and accidental or events spiraling out of control. These strikes may invariably be launched on Indian territory and may take the form of nuclear strike on Indian armed forces, cities and economic and communication centers. The response may even be undertaken due to preparatory engagement of targets inside Pakistani territory, threatening strategic and forward assembly of Indian troops, on escalation of nuclear alert status or even an accidental or rogue firing of Indian nuclear missiles.

An Early Response Threshold (ERT) may result in a nuclear retaliation during the early stages of Indian offensive after the international border has been crossed. Early nuclear response may be resorted to when sensitive locations (important towns/cities etc close to the international border) of psycho-social and communication/economic importance are threatened or captured. It could also be the combined resultant affect of an existential extreme political and economic situation, exacerbation of which is blamed on India and may be undertaken by a government under intense public pressure.

In a Delayed Response Threshold (DRT) the nuclear strikes may be undertaken only after saturation of the conventional response. Evoking of such a response may vary according to the peculiar geographical lay of international border or contiguity of various sensitive locations to the international border and may even take the form of certain imaginary lines drawn on the map.

Finally, the Accumulative Response Threshold (ART) may be evoked if India initiates a graduated application of force. In such a scenario, a naval coercion gradually escalated to blockade coupled with graduated conventional selective air and ground strikes on economic targets, communication infrastructure, politically sensitive locations and military targets are undertaken. The accumulative destructive effect of such conventional strikes may evoke either an early or a delayed nuclear response depending on the summative effect of destruction that has taken place.

These thresholds highlight the fact that even limited wars which Indian defence intelligentsia believes in, are fraught with the threat of nuclear response even before the attacking forces attempt to cross the international border. The decision to initiate war therefore, even limited, must carefully factor in the nuclear response during the early stages of mobilization.

The Indian stated position that their nuclear warfare preparations are against China which would automatically take care of Pakistan’s nuclear threat, has indirectly infused a sense of inconsequentiality of Pakistan’s nuclear capability and has forced Pakistan to improve her nuclear response. This has led to stability – instability paradox for which only the Indians are responsible and not Pakistan.

With China factored in by the Indians, the bilateral India-Pakistan discussions on any nuclear restraint regime may not be helpful towards amenable regional environment. Therefore, inclusion of China in a regional strategic stability can produce the desired results.
 
you are calling Indians thieves. if you want to dish this cr@p out be prepared to take some truth, instead of threatening me.
to me, your so called prophet is not worth a quote from me. and before you come to me, tell your people who insult our national icons like Modi and Gandhi who we hold in higher esteem.

Don't put words In my mouth. I am way past the stage of wasting my time calling anyone anything. You qouted an inflammatory remark against a man totally out of context. Your coloured glasses are deceiving you again. Also understand the difference between religious and national icons.This is my grief not some useless mud slinging. ALSO please talk to me about what I have said not what someone else is saying. Iam not responsible for all the wierdos that hide behind the screen. However come out with bhllcrap against the Prophet especially out of context and I will ensure that you are banned .
Araz
 
Can you debunk the arguments presented by wikislam ?Because thats an eye opener.

If you put up a claim in an appropriate thread I will try my best to answer it but honestly I don't have the time to chase everything that is written on the net.
Araz
 
Hey Dude, the tech for them alraedy exists. Just that the Indian Nuclear Doctrine does not consider them to be of any appreciable value. Because TacNukes are just "the ultimate Hara-Kiri or Suicide Weapon". Which is precisely the point that the report by the International Institute for Strategic Studies in London says.

You did'nt get it yet? :D

You are such big nerds who have not gotten out of your slavish fascination of whatever the Gora tells you. At times think yourself without referring to Goras and the links they post.

Pehlay Musalmanon ke ghulam rahay, phir Goray ke Ghulam rahay, abhi dimagh bhi ghulamana hai.

Apni auqaat se nikal nahin sakay abhi tak - we still rule you and you are still obsessed with us and can not do a damn about it. Remain in your pants before we send you back to Rig Vedic era. Idiots.
 
That will happen the same day you give Kashmiris the right to their land and self determination.

May be Pakistan can set an example by giving Balochistan the right to their land and self determination. :)

withdraw from kashmir? what are you smoking?
you want us to give india azad kashmir?

Azad Kashmir is already in Indian side, you should consider giving azadi to the "Pakistan occupied Kashmir" also.

100s of thousands soldiers yes, and turning the indian army to dust within seconds

And Non-Resident-Pakistanis will watch their country suffering the same fate in retaliation.

Pakistan can attack India with nukes multiple times and cause a end to it the next day.

And all along I was thinking phensedyl is smuggled only into Bangladesh. :D

The funniest thing about it will be that the Indian parliament will take 1 month looking for a reaction...

Indian Parliament has already taken the decision long back, and we are constantly improving our 2nd strike capabilities from land, sea, & air. Hence, CALM DOWN!!
 
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