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US Congressman taking an oath on the Quran

A.Rahman

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US Congressman taking an oath on the Quran

The newly elected first Muslim congressman Keith Ellison must not be allowed to take an oath on the Quran, says Dennis Prager, a radio talk show host in Southern California. Why? It would destroy the foundation of American culture.

Really! If the culture is so fragile that it would disintegrate by a simple act of swearing in on the Quran, then it deserves to be analyzed carefully.

Even though the first amendment guarantees freedom of religion, and the constitution does not require people to talk an oath of allegiance on the Bible, the issue goes beyond the realm of legalities. It is a debate about the future of this country and a discussion on changing demographic, intellectual and social realities.

Changes in the demography indicate that America has become home of various religious communities that were considered insignificant a few decades ago. Muslims with over six million, Hindus with more than three million, Buddhists with about two million, Bhais with over a million and of course Jews with about seven million as well as Sikhs, Jains, Pagans, atheists and agnostics make up about 15 percent of the population. With the exception of Jews who accept the Old Testament and reject the New Testament, none view the Bible as their Holy Scripture. Muslims acknowledge the divine origin of Torah (Old Testament) and Injeel, (New Testament), but question its authenticity. Hindus have a polytheistic perspective and Buddhist don't believe in the concept of one God. Bahais view all religions equal and add that their leader was the last of the exponent of the divine message. Fifteen-percent of the population is not an insignificant number. Its religious identity cannot be ignored and certainly commentators like Dennis Prager, himself a Jew, have failed to recognize it's existence.

Socially, these communities have their own religious institutions and many of them are actively involved in the political arena as well. To expect them to show allegiance to a Book that they don't accept as a guiding principle in their every day life is meaningless. Those who demand such an act either do not understand the significance of an oath or do not take the act seriously. They are either reacting on the basis of their chauvinistic tendencies or religious bigotry.

However, it is at the intellectual level that debate about using a book other than the Bible assumes much significance, because it is this discussion that is going to have its impact on the future of the country.

There are four different dimensions of the debate on the issue. Some tend to believe that the country is founded on Judeo-Christian traditions and the inclusion of any other religious tradition would corrupt the ideological foundations of the state. Then there are those that believe Judeo-Christian traditions are incomplete without the inclusion of Islam. Hence they argue that America should recognize it as a country guided by Judeo-Christian-Islamic values. The third group argues that in a secular polity, no religious book should be required for an oath of allegiance and the fourth group believes that everyone should be given the freedom to choose whatever book, he or she chooses to take an oath of any office.

Those who believe in the supremacy of the Judeo-Christian traditions of the country comprise three perspectives. The first one include a great majority of Americans who sincerely believe that the country is essentially Christian and the constitutional freedoms primarily refer to guarantees given to various Christian denominations. They don't view other religions worthy of impacting the social and cultural life of Americans. They believe that others can enjoy freedom of religion as long as they accept the supremacy of the Bible. The proponents of the second perspective argue that Judeo-Christian traditions of America are crucial to maintain the current political system and practices. Most of them realize that there is nothing Judeo-Christian in their theology. Jews, for instance do not recognize the New Testament and consider Jesus as a false Messiah. However, they accept the supremacy of Judeo-Christian tradition for political purposes. They view Muslims as the most vocal opponents of their political policies and practices. In their view, Israel occupies a central status in the so called divine politics and America is seen as a country doing the divine work by ensuring that Israel fulfills the divine prophecy in years to come.

They tend to believe that the acceptance of anything else other than the Bible would erode the political support for the state of Israel as other perspectives will gain legitimacy, thus, neutralizing or softening the stand of Americans on its continued one sided support for the state of Israel. It is this paranoia that has driven commentators like Dennis Prager to express their opinion on the issue of taking oath on the Quran.

The third perspective within the Judeo-Christian traditions sincerely believes that the Quran has no place within the socio-political structure of the country. They believe that through their tireless tirade against Islam, they would intimidate Muslims to renounce Islam or at least change those portions of the Quran they don't approve. They view the Quran as a book contrary to their conservatism or liberalism promoting hatred and violence. They don't want to see the Quran finding its place in the corridors of power.

When Dennis Prager wrote his piece, he apparently had in mind the support that he would gather from the three proponents of the Judeo-Christian traditions.

And sure he did. The initial response to what he wrote came from right wing conservatives, political Zionists and extremist right wing groups. Prager knows that he would not be able to stop Ellison from taking an oath on the Quran, but he would spark a debate about the Quran raising doubts in the mind of average Americans about its relevance to America.

How should Muslims respond to the debate? From a Quranic perspective, the Muslims can take either of the two following positions. Either they line up with those who believe that no book other than the constitution should be used for an oath of allegiance or all books should be permitted for that purpose. Some Muslims will argue that the sovereignty belongs to God and by showing allegiance to the constitution they would be transferring the powers to the people who are considered the ultimate power in determining the legislative directions of the country.

However, the outcome of the debate would also be determined on the basis of Muslim's outreach in explaining to others including their opponents what the Quran is and what is its relevance to America. If they fail in this attempt, they would not become marginalized, but would become irrelevant to America as well.

Muslims have to realize that some amongst us have distorted the message of the Quran for their own political gains, some have misused it for their personal interests, and some have ignored the call of the Quran for justice and peace.

Through their behavior and constant references of the Quran they have created negative feelings about the Quran among many non-Muslims. It is this outreach that will help most Americans overcome their fears about the Quran.
 
Yes, Keith Ellison should not be allowed to take oath on Koran in the House of Representatives, but for different reasons. US is a "secular" country :rolleyes: ; there should not be any oath based on any religion. There should be no Bible or Torah or Koran in Congress. The office of Chaplain in the Congress should be abolished :P . All sessions must NOT (that is right Must NOT) start with any kind of prayer, even a non-denominational prayer; how's that for the real secularism? :lol:

Ofcourse this can never happen because US is ruled by the right wing Christians
 
Hail Democracy! Hail Secularism! Hail freedom !
Ohh ... I looked confused here. Did'nt I?
Kashif
 
How about that fac tthat the Bible has always been the book people swore on, evne non-Christians. Goerge washington and Thomas Jefferson the fahte rof our country and the author of our constatution were both Masonic deists and they swore thier oaths on the bible. he wa snot elected to practic ehis faith but to govern and legislate on behalf of everyone. His turning the swearing into a media event in order to cry foul is shameful.
 
How about that fac tthat the Bible has always been the book people swore on, evne non-Christians. Goerge washington and Thomas Jefferson the fahte rof our country and the author of our constatution were both Masonic deists and they swore thier oaths on the bible. he wa snot elected to practic ehis faith but to govern and legislate on behalf of everyone. His turning the swearing into a media event in order to cry foul is shameful.

How about the fact that christains & jews swear on their bible but a muslim cant.
 
Sure they can, doens't the Koran call for Muslims to obey the alws and traditions of the land they live in?
 
Sure they can, doens't the Koran call for Muslims to obey the alws and traditions of the land they live in?

Of course they are following the law of the land; which is

Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status.

Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.
 
and he remains free to practice his faith outside of office. George Washington and Thomas Jefferosn were both deist masons not Christians and yet they took the oath on the bible. Rightly of wrongly the Bible is now the book associated with that tradtition. By refusing to swear on the bible he is interjecting religion into the proces sof govemrent which is forbidden and delcaring himself to be above Goerge washington and the other founders. That type of huaghty I am better than you attitude has no plac ein one seek to govern by the just consent of the governed. If he wont follow our oldest traditions that affirm the link with the very ideals espoused by our fore fathers why should we trust him to govern in thier spirit?

I already hope he fails getting re-elected just for trying to force his perosnal rleigious views into the public debate. He wasn't elected to be a muslim or beucase he was a muslim, he was elected to govern in acocrdance with our traditions and laws.
 
How about that fac tthat the Bible has always been the book people swore on, evne non-Christians. Goerge washington and Thomas Jefferson the fahte rof our country and the author of our constatution were both Masonic deists and they swore thier oaths on the bible. he wa snot elected to practic ehis faith but to govern and legislate on behalf of everyone. His turning the swearing into a media event in order to cry foul is shameful.
So basically everyone has been really stupid till date.

A non-Christian swearing on the bible means nothing. It's not really a "swear".

He's not forcing his personal views, he's being asked to take an oath and is doing it as honestly as possible. I too wish this guy's not re-elected btw. You should read the issues this guy stands for. Extreme Left-wing. And he campaigned on them. Minnesota's traditionally a liberal vote bank isn't it?

Heck such extreme left-wing support is completely non-Islamic. The only thing good about that is, you KNOW he doesn't bring religion into governance.
 
Wouldn't it make more sense for him to swear an oath on something he believes in? If he is not a Christian then the bible (in the form sworn upon) is just a bundle of papers.

When I took my oath for the forces. I was not required to swear upon a bible as it was recognised that it would have no value for me. If the British army (with all it's traditions) can change why can't the U.S. government?

And is it not trying to force religion (albeit in a different form), into the issue when insisting they swear upon a religious book?
 
How about that fac tthat the Bible has always been the book people swore on, evne non-Christians. Goerge washington and Thomas Jefferson the fahte rof our country and the author of our constatution were both Masonic deists and they swore thier oaths on the bible. he wa snot elected to practic ehis faith but to govern and legislate on behalf of everyone. His turning the swearing into a media event in order to cry foul is shameful.

1. The founding fathers used bible as a symbol of inviolability and not as an adaptation of a religion. It can not or should not become a tradition, because at the time there was no alternative symbol of honesty and purity was available in the area, and the constitution is very clear about the separation of church and state.
2. Obligation to take oath on only the Bible will doubtlessly undermine the American constitution which separates church from the state. Which in by itself will be a huge setback to the principals of the American founding fathers like George Washington and Thomas Jefferson.

he wa snot elected to practic ehis faith but to govern and legislate on behalf of everyone. His turning the swearing into a media event in order to cry foul is shameful.

People elect their representatives to guard their interests under the American constitution and not follow some traditions. If traditions would have been of paramount interest, today we would still have blacks serving as slaves. So if there is anyone who is turning the swearing into a media circus its those who insist on following the traditions.
 
Key,Tomcat

Swearing on the bible is a living link to our founders an unbroken chain strecthing back to the very founding of our country. The oath is not to the book but to the state and the constatution. He is not even required to say the word God but can isntead merely affirm. Allowing him to decide which book means he places more importance on the ideals of the book ad his personal desires than ideals of the state and the desires of its people.

If he wont swea ron the bible, how can we trust him to vote for American values in all situations? (His leftist platform aside) What if an issue comes before him wher ethe American way and Sharia are opposed and he has to decide (gay marriage, western versions of womans rights etc)? This type of litmus testing is an important part of the American politcal landscape. America want sits legislators free from the self delcared hand of God for the most part.
 
Swearing on the bible is a living link to our founders an unbroken chain strecthing back to the very founding of our country.
That my friend is racist. Your founding fathers were white, being American is not about being white. Should we exclude all the non-whites from their citizenship?

The oath is not to the book but to the state and the constatution. He is not even required to say the word God but can isntead merely affirm. Allowing him to decide which book means he places more importance on the ideals of the book ad his personal desires than ideals of the state and the desires of its people.
Actually it affirms, honesty. The book is more meaningful for him. Swearing on the Bible and swearing on DC comics is the same for him. Meaningless.
If he wont swea ron the bible, how can we trust him to vote for American values in all situations?
Are you saying that he is also swearing to uphold Christian values of America? American values and Christian values are different things.

(His leftist platform aside) What if an issue comes before him wher ethe American way and Sharia are opposed and he has to decide (gay marriage, western versions of womans rights etc)?
He will have to go against the Shariah then.

He already support Gay rights and given the chance he'd probably support Gay marriages. Already his governance is non-Islamic.

This type of litmus testing is an important part of the American politcal landscape. America want sits legislators free from the self delcared hand of God for the most part.
This is racism... One that extends to putting Muslims in encampments like you guys did in World War 2. Lol you guys are screwing up a good secular thing. Christian fundos at their best.
 
Wouldn't it make more sense for him to swear an oath on something he believes in? If he is not a Christian then the bible (in the form sworn upon) is just a bundle of papers.

When I took my oath for the forces. I was not required to swear upon a bible as it was recognised that it would have no value for me. If the British army (with all it's traditions) can change why can't the U.S. government?

And is it not trying to force religion (albeit in a different form), into the issue when insisting they swear upon a religious book?
I'd swear on the Superman #1 that I own if I ever won the elections. Trust me they'd have no issues then.
 
Key,Tomcat

Swearing on the bible is a living link to our founders an unbroken chain strecthing back to the very founding of our country. The oath is not to the book but to the state and the constatution. He is not even required to say the word God but can isntead merely affirm. Allowing him to decide which book means he places more importance on the ideals of the book ad his personal desires than ideals of the state and the desires of its people.

If he wont swea ron the bible, how can we trust him to vote for American values in all situations? (His leftist platform aside) What if an issue comes before him wher ethe American way and Sharia are opposed and he has to decide (gay marriage, western versions of womans rights etc)? This type of litmus testing is an important part of the American politcal landscape. America want sits legislators free from the self delcared hand of God for the most part.


Zraver whilst I understand what you are saying. I would argue that an Oath, only has the value that the person taking it, places upon it. Therefore I would like a politician (bunch of liars that they are) to swear upon something he feels is important. Since he has sworn an oath to the flag (and whatever else is in the oath required.) I would suggest that he values those principles enough to take an oath upon a book which is central to his beliefs.
 
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