Raymond Davis Case: LHC rules murder trial valid, rejects immunity from prosecution

[silent hawk]

From what i have read there are at least four possible outcomes:-

It may be determined that he is a diplomat in which case he enjoys diplomatic imunity and should be repatriated.

It may be determined that he is a counslar in which case he may be tried for what is charged.

It may be determined that he is a spy in which case not only can he be tried for the current charges but also for spying.

His status may remain undetermined for a reasonable time. In thi case as per norms of international relations the benifit of doubt will go to Mr Raymond Davis and once again we will be required to repatriate him.

To me the forth possibility is the worst of all

 

[LaBong]

Dont apply your own logic everywhere, we are WOT front state and need keep a close eye on whose working on wrong grounds...

Infact USA themselves said he is security worker in lahore consulate which tell us no immunity whatsoever......

Pakistan Fo is not giving him immunity cant you and americans read under the lines

That's not my logic but as stated by Vienna convention of which Pakistan is a signatory. The only thing Pakistan can do is to declare Davis as persona non grata. You can however use your leverage of being WOT state and force US to revoke his diplomatic immunity which will make Davis prosecutable under Pakistan judiciary.

Look I have no concern of Davis's fate, I'm only stating the rules.

 

[Leviza]

That's not my logic but as stated by Vienna convention of which Pakistan is a signatory. The only thing Pakistan can do is to declare Davis as persona non grata. You can however use your leverage of being WOT state and force US to revoke his diplomatic immunity which will make Davis prosecutable under Pakistan judiciary.

Look I have no concern of Davis's fate, I'm only stating the rules.

thing is USA said he is a security worker in lahore consulate (b4 changing it to lie that he is a admin staff in ISB embassy)
so they want to lie and this is only taken care of by court.... i hope if you dont want to party with him then you will say something on this lie as well.

 

[muse]

Jana had posted the piece below on another thread - I think it might be helpful to all to review the ideas in the post:

Take this as definitive from a former Ambassador Craig Murray.

"There are five circumstances in which Raymond Davis, the American killer caught in Pakistan, might have diplomatic immunity. They are these:

1) He was notified in writing to the government of Pakistan as a member of diplomatic staff of a US diplomatic mission in Pakistan, and the government of Pakistan had accepted him as such in writing.

2) He was part of an official delegation engaged in diplomatic negotiations notified to the government of Pakistan and accepted by them.

3) He was a member of staff of an international organisation recognised by Pakistan and was resident in Pakistan as a member of diplomatic staff working for that organisation, or was in Pakistan undertaking work for that organisation with the knowledge and approval of the Pakistani authorities.

4) He was an accredited diplomat elsewhere and was in direct tranist through Pakistan to his diplomatic posting.

5) He was an accredited courier carrying US diplomatic dispatches in transit through Pakistan.

2) to 5) plainly do not apply. The Obama administration is going for 1). My information, from senior Pakistani ex-military sources that I trust, is firmly that the necessary diplomatic exchange of notes does not exist that would make Davis an accredited US diplomat in Pakistan, but that the State Department is putting huge pressure on the government of Pakistan to overlook that fact.

This passes a commonsense test – if the documents did exist, Lady Clinton would have waved them at us by now.

Craig Murray » Blog Archive » Raymond Davis Does Not Have Diplomatic Immunity

 

[LaBong]

thing is USA said he is a security worker in lahore consulate (b4 changing it to lie that he is a admin staff in ISB embassy)
so they want to lie and this is only taken care of by court.... i hope if you dont want to party with him then you will say something on this lie as well.

You can't do anything even if they lied unless MEA of Pakistan invalidates his immunity or US revokes his immunity. This is how diplomatic immunity has been (mis)used since ancient time, any abuse of which generally leads to cut off of diplomatic relation and even war.

 

[MastanKhan]

So what? That isn't Davis' responsibility, that is the responsibility of the Pakistani F.O., which has NOT denied that Davis has immunity from Pakistani jurisdiction, at least as long as the criminal investigation continues. Thus the F.O. has failed in its duty. Davis should never have been arrested by Pakistani authorities in the first place. Why does this not constitute grounds for releasing Davis immediately?

Hi,

We can also look at it this way----the american president has authorized american operators for pre-emptive strikes / assasinations---does it mean that the country in which the assasination takes place---has to abide by the u s law---now the americans may claim that as they are christians---thus closer to god---and by that virtue---their law supercedes any other law of the universe---and every other nation has to abide by that law and respect its enforcement and take it to be the word of god.

And why do you have to do that---because it is the law---. Pakistan is fortunate that Tunisia, Egypt, Bahrain and Libya happened when they did----otherwise there would be other WORRIES for pakistan---.

Any grass eaters left in pakistan!!!!!



And worst of all----for some strange reason I feel like I am under the shadow of this giant PURPLE DINOSAUR----oh it is not that---actually----it is one of those LIGHT BULB SHINNING moments by our webmaster----the god Webmaster has spoken----the senior members will be related to Barney the dinosaur---so they will be represented by color purple---that is the verdict---that is the law----the senior member must abide by the law---obey the webmaster---.

Webby----if you read this----you have just become like america---enforcing your color scheme / law----take it or leave it preposition.

 

[TOPGUN]

Forget all of the above the sucker is a spy and he got caught killed two men ... and needs to be hanged simply.

 

[jnd3x0]

isi must keep him , till he spill out all he knows... then simply hang him . end of the deal .

 

[Solomon2]

We can also look at it this way----the american president has authorized american operators for pre-emptive strikes / assasinations---does it mean that the country in which the assasination takes place---has to abide by the u s law---

No, you can't look at it that way because when Pakistan signed the Vienna Conventions their content became part of Pakistani law, over-riding everything else.

Any grass eaters left in pakistan!!!!!

Dunno about that, but plenty of Kool-Aid drinkers, it seems.

 

[Awesome]

The FO has to give their decision either way. The LHC has made it clear that by default, he stands with no immunity. According to that on March 8, formal case proceedings will finally kick off.

 

[Awesome]

No, you can't look at it that way because when Pakistan signed the Vienna Conventions their content became part of Pakistani law, over-riding everything else.

Dunno about that, but plenty of Kool-Aid drinkers, it seems.

Nobody has denied the validity of the Vienna Conventions or diplomatic immunity. But the determination of that immunity solely rests upon the foreign affairs Ministry and you have to agree to whatever they say as hard truth.

When you signed the Vienna Conventions that became YOUR overriding law too.

 

[Ghareeb_Da_Baal]

news Update from Jang:

 

[Solomon2]

the determination of that immunity solely rests upon the foreign affairs Ministry -

Certainly not:

Article 10
1.The Ministry for Foreign Affairs of the receiving State, or such other ministry as may be agreed, shall be notified of:
(a) The appointment of members of the mission, their arrival and their final departure or the termination of their functions with the mission;..

Article 17
The precedence of the members of the diplomatic staff of the mission shall be notified by the head of the mission to the Ministry for Foreign Affairs...

Article 39
1.Every person entitled to privileges and immunities shall enjoy them from the moment he enters the territory of the receiving State on proceeding to take up his post or, if already in its territory, from the moment when his appointment is notified to the Ministry for Foreign Affairs or such other ministry as may be agreed.

So the role of the F.O. is notification only, not determination.

 

[Mabs]

The Ex-Foreign Minister of Pakistan is on record saying that Mr.Davis does not enjoy the kind of blanket immunity that the Americans are pushing for. Also the FO spokesperson has been changed since the Davis saga began, because reportedly he wanted to make it clear that Davis had no immunity. We may declare the reason behind the FO spokesperson transfer as a rumor, but the statement of the Foreign Minister should clear up any doubts that anybody might have about the status of Raymond Davis.

 

[Mabs]

@ Solomon
Any notification needs to be authenticated by the Foreign office as to be true to be established as a fact and thus official. I do not have the exact date right now but i think it was 26th December,2009 when Davis was asked to be accepted as a diplomat, to which Pakistan FO raised some questions which were never addressed by the American Mission in Pakistan. The next list that came in from the American mission didn't have Davis's name in it. It was the American embassy which failed to answer the questions raised by the FO, and withdrew its request to accept Raymond Davis as a diplomat.