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Can Modi's India Be Trusted With Nukes?

You don't seem to get the point. All this is over. Live firing has been done. You find it difficult because of your core assumption that this was a prototype nuclear device. How can you ask for those criteria to be fulfilled when the missile was not even designed to carry such a device?

When a missile is put under the field command of a service, it is no longer subject to the identical protocols that centralised weapons might require.

You will say and I will believe it? The missile is fully capable to carry a tactical nuclear warhead. It does not necesarily mean that it will carry a nuclear warhead.

The main argument is , it is clearly a deliberate launch.

A missile does not automatically get launched unless until the circuit is activated, and for that at command level as well they need two to three person to clear the launch , and when telemetry is set.
 
There is no separate test required of a strategic warhead, other than a live test with an explosion of the device.

All other tests have been completed. Weight of the warhead has been tested; the weight of a strategic warhead will not exceed a conventional warhead. So what exactly is this dummy warhead supposed to establish?
was a ballsy message, is was it was.

or was it ?

One must question the wisdom of such a move, but it may have been a (evil) masterstroke.. given the Ukraine situation etc (behti ganga.. as the saying goes)

We should also not rule out entirely.. and seriously question this alleged "incompetence"/ mistakenly fired, or rogue missile or whatever else they're saying.

Let us also not rule out the possibility of a false flag, those have been known to be a thing.

The Chinese operate similar stuff too.

 
You will say and I will believe it? The missile is fully capable to carry a tactical nuclear warhead. It does not necesarily mean that it will carry a nuclear warhead.

The main argument is , it is clearly a deliberate launch.

A missile does not automatically get launched unless until the circuit is activated, and for that at command level as well they need two to three person to clear the launch , and when telemetry is set.
It is not clear to anyone but those who wish to see it so.
 

India's March 9 "accidental firing" of Brahmos nuclear-capable supersonic cruise missile into Pakistan has raised serious questions about the safety of the Indian nuclear arsenal. Do the people in charge of India's nukes have basic competence to handle such weapons? Was this really an "unauthorized" or "accidental" firing? Why was there a long delay by New Delhi in acknowledging the incident? Could Pakistan be blamed if it assumed that extremist right-wing Hindu elements had taken control of the missile system in India and fired it deliberately into Pakistani territory? Has the Indian government risked the lives of 1.6 billion people of South Asia?






Top Indian defense analysts Sushant Singh and Bharat Karnad have strongly criticized the Indian government for the incident and its response. Singh has accused the Indian government of risking the lives of 1.6 billion people. Karnad has called the incident "quite shocking and simply cannot be credibly explained away by referring to a 'technical glitch'". Both have praised Pakistan's "mature" response to the incident.

In an OpEd in the Deccan Herald, Mr. Singh says "we (India) have come out looking like either bumbling idiots or out of control, while the Pakistanis have come out as being both capable and mature". In an interview with Rediff, Professor Karnad said, "This is quite shocking and simply cannot be credibly explained away by referring to a ‘technical glitch’". Here are more detailed excerpts of remarks by Singh and Karnad:

Excerpts From "A Broken Arrow" by Sushant Singh published in the Deccan Herald:

"Unfortunately not. India and Pakistan are nuclear weapon states that came close to climbing the escalation ladder in the aftermath of the Balakot airstrikes just three years ago. My column in this paper on February 27 (“Three years ago, we were on the brink of war”) had warned of the risks highlighted in February-March 2019, which have been overlooked since. The accidental firing of an Indian missile has brought the spotlight on those risks again. It would be irresponsible to ignore them now".

"The lives of 1.6 billion people of India and Pakistan cannot be dependent on such lucky breaks. It is for these reasons – the destructive capacity of nuclear weapons, the minimal time available to take a decision, and Pakistan’s strategic mindset – accidents are unacceptable. Questions raised in western capitals about the safety and security of our nuclear weapon systems and processes were regularly dismissed by New Delhi by citing its impeccable track-record and supposedly fool-proof systems. It allowed India, despite the concerted efforts of certain American experts, to de-hyphenate itself from Pakistan’s poor track record of proliferation, its weak security systems always seen to be at risk of being infiltrated by religious religious extremists in uniform. On issues of nuclear safety, Pakistan has always attempted to bracket India with itself, but has often failed. But now, we have come out looking like either bumbling idiots or out of control, while the Pakistanis have come out as being both capable and mature. India can dismiss all Pakistani allegations but there will be renewed questions from the US non-proliferation lobby that are going to be tougher for New Delhi to respond to".

"India, as the bigger country, has the cushion of geography, while Pakistan, driven by the insecurity of a small territory, has a nuclear security doctrine of ‘first use’. To avoid the destruction of its arsenal and delivery systems by a pre-emptive Indian strike, it deems it necessary to strike India first in the event of hostilities threatening to break out. This makes the situation more dangerous in the subcontinent"

"An environment of relative calm between India and Pakistan, with a ceasefire on the LoC in Kashmir, definitely helped the Pakistani military keep its cool in the face of an Indian missile. Would it have reacted so maturely in the midst of military or political tensions? Or can Pakistan be blamed if they assume that certain rogue elements had taken control of the missile system in India and fired on it? Crucially, if the missile had a self-destruct feature, why wasn’t it activated? Should we expect every junior Pakistani military officer to display the same sagacity and courage as the Soviet naval officer Vasili Arkhipov, the Brigade Chief of Staff on submarine B-59, who refused to fire a nuclear missile and prevented a nuclear disaster in 1962? Or of the Soviet military duty officer Stanislav Petrov who, on seeing an early-warning system showing an incoming US strike, with about half-a-dozen missiles, in the early hours of September 26, 1983, made the call – in the face of incomplete information and doubt -- that it was a system malfunction, instead of reporting it to his superiors as enemy missile launches?"

Excerpts From Bharat Karnad's Interview with Rashme Sehgal:

RS: What does this say about their safety mechanisms and the technical prowess in the way these dangerous weapons are being maintained in India?

BK: That’s precisely the worry attending on this misfiring.

Indeed, the Pakistani government was quick to capitalise on this incident of the Brahmos missile going astray.

Prime Minister Imran Khan’s National Secrity Adviser Dr Moeed Yusuf publicly expressed concern and asked the international community to note the fairly casual manner in which missiles are operated.by the Indian armed forces.

He went on, understandably, to extend that concern to India’s handling of nuclear weapons and their delivery systems.

Such criticism is bound to have an effect on international opinion and hurt India’s self-confessed status as a ‘responsible State’.

RS: The defence ministry seems to have landed with egg on its face.

BK: A whole barnyard full of eggs, in fact. This is quite shocking and simply cannot be credibly explained away by referring to a ‘technical glitch’.

The triggering mechanism is a hardy piece of work including a firing sequence and a final authorisation.

How this process was obviated is a mystery.

RS: Pakistan’s foreign office summoned India’s charge d’affaires in Islamabad to lodge a warning that this unprovoked violation of its airspace could have endangered passenger flights and civilian lives.

BK: Well, yeah, anything could have happened, including the missile, even with a dummy warhead, kinetically taking out a passenger aircraft.

In your view, could this have been a BrahMos cruise missile possessing nuclear capability?

The Brahmos missile has interchangeable warheads and can carry both conventional and nuclear weapons.

But most forward-deployed Indian cruise missiles are conventionally armed.

RS: If it was a nuclear missile — albeit unarmed — is there a possibility in the future that the command and control system could fail again in the future which could have dangerous consequences for both nations?

BK: Unless the government clarifies the nature of the ‘technical glitch’ everything is in the realm of speculation. That could include a faulty command and control system.

RS: According to reports, Pakistani officials claim it was fired from Sirsa. How far is that assessment correct?

BK: No reason to doubt the Pakistani claim because the Pakistani air defence complex at Sargodha, District Miani, is very advanced and capable of detecting cruise and ballistic missile firings and minutely tracking their trajectory.

Related Links:

Haq's Musings

South Asia Investor Review

The West Must Accept Pakistan as a Legitimate Nuclear State

Balakot and Kashmir: Fact Checkers Expose Indian Lies

Is Pakistan Ready for War with India?

Pakistan-Made Airplanes Lead Nation's Defense Exports

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India's Israel Envy: What If Modi Attacks Pakistan?

Project Azm: Pakistan to Develop 5th Generation Fighter Jet

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Who Won the 1965 War? India or Pakistan?


Pakistani Military's Performance in 1971 War

Riaz Haq's Youtube Channel

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Heading ko thora spicy banayen Riz Bhai. kuch halki he yeh. Somehing like "After launching a missile to its neighbor can India be trusted with nukes?"
Aur zor India par den modi par naheen. heading men mera matlab. :-)
 
was a ballsy message, is was it was.

or was it ?

One must question the wisdom of such a move, but it may have been a (evil) masterstroke.. given the Ukraine situation etc (behti ganga.. as the saying goes)

We should also not rule out entirely.. and seriously question this alleged "incompetence"/ mistakenly fired, or rogue missile or whatever else they're saying.

Let us also not rule out the possibility of a false flag, those have been known to be a thing.

The Chinese operate similar stuff too.

True, very true.

That is why I say that this, and the other two threads, are a total waste of time.

India has as a norm been very transparent about its actions, and about its errors.

Until an enquiry is conducted and its results released, these discussions are merely diversions for the idle-minded.
 
True, very true.

That is why I say that this, and the other two threads, are a total waste of time.

India has as a norm been very transparent about its actions, and about its errors.

Until an enquiry is conducted and its results released, these discussions are merely diversions for the idle-minded.
fat chance of any of it being made public.

look, not an admission of guilt (such a thing would be way beyond my proverbial "pay grade" anyway)

just that it all seems a bit fantastical

but facts, they say, are stranger than fiction.
 
fat chance of any of it being made public.

look, not an admission of guilt (such a thing would be way beyond my proverbial "pay grade" anyway)

just that it all seems a bit fantastical

but facts, they say, are stranger than fiction.
ANYTHING would be better than this storm of speculation. I thought by reasonably explaining everything, it would calm down the hysterical kids, then too late it became clear it wasn't just the kids, some older folk got into it too.

Stupid mistake.

You will say and I will believe it? The missile is fully capable to carry a tactical nuclear warhead. It does not necesarily mean that it will carry a nuclear warhead.

The main argument is , it is clearly a deliberate launch.

A missile does not automatically get launched unless until the circuit is activated, and for that at command level as well they need two to three person to clear the launch , and when telemetry is set.
All right, genius, whatever floats your boat.
 
So who fired the missile? Software?
No, some technician during a routine inspection who did what he was never trained to do; an operator who was distracted and did the wrong thing; a combination of both of these.

We will not find out by your asking who fired it, or by my trying to answer it. We don't even know all the decision paths.

How do you think any amount of speculation will allow this to be figured out?
 
No, some technician during a routine inspection who did what he was never trained to do; an operator who was distracted and did the wrong thing; a combination of both of these.

We will not find out by your asking who fired it, or by my trying to answer it. We don't even know all the decision paths.

How do you think any amount of speculation will allow this to be figured out?

clear case of sabotage
 
#India reviewing procedures after missile "accidentally" fired into #Pakistan. Pak NSA Yusuf called for an investigation into the "real circumstances surrounding" the incident "to ascertain if this was an inadvertent launch or something more intentional" https://www.reuters.com/world/india...-accidentally-fired-into-pakistan-2022-03-15/

India is conducting a review of its standing operating procedures for operations, maintenance and inspection of weapons systems after accidentally launching a missile into Pakistan last week, its defence minister said on Tuesday.

"We attach the highest priority to the safety and security of our weapon systems. If any shortcoming is found, it would be immediately rectified," Rajnath Singh told parliament.

India accidentally released a missile, which landed in Pakistan, around 7pm last Wednesday during routine maintenance and inspection, he said.

"While this incident is regretted, we are relieved that nobody was hurt due to the accident," Singh said.


An Indian media report said that an unarmed, practice-version of the BrahMos supersonic missile was accidentally fired into Pakistan during an inspection at a secret satellite base of the Indian Air Force.

Quoting sources in the Indian defence ministry, the report claimed that the missile followed the trajectory that it would have in case of a conflict, but “certain factors” played a role in ensuring that any pre-fed target was out of danger.

The report said that since it was “a practice missile”, it had no warheads. The report also claimed that India informed Pakistan about this “accidental firing” soon after it happened. Pakistan, however, said that India failed to immediately inform Islamabad about the accidental launch, and waited until after the Inter-Services Public Relations announced the incident and sought clarification from New Delhi.

India subsequently acknowledged the incident on Friday, chalking it up to a "technical malfunction", and said that a "high-level court of enquiry" was ordered on the event.

The Foreign Office rejected the "simplistic explanation" offered by India and proposed a joint probe into the incident to establish the facts.

Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi also took the issue up on Monday with his German counterpart and United Nations Secretary General Antonio Guterres.

National Security Adviser Moeed Yusuf had also questioned Delhi's ability to handle sensitive technology in the wake of the incident and urged the world to consider whether India was able to ensure the safety and security of its nuclear weapon systems.

Yusuf called for an investigation into the "real circumstances surrounding" the March 9 incident "to ascertain if this was an inadvertent launch or something more intentional", saying that "it is hard to believe anything this Indian government says."
 
#India reviewing procedures after missile "accidentally" fired into #Pakistan. Pak NSA Yusuf called for an investigation into the "real circumstances surrounding" the incident "to ascertain if this was an inadvertent launch or something more intentional" https://www.reuters.com/world/india...-accidentally-fired-into-pakistan-2022-03-15/

India is conducting a review of its standing operating procedures for operations, maintenance and inspection of weapons systems after accidentally launching a missile into Pakistan last week, its defence minister said on Tuesday.

"We attach the highest priority to the safety and security of our weapon systems. If any shortcoming is found, it would be immediately rectified," Rajnath Singh told parliament.

India accidentally released a missile, which landed in Pakistan, around 7pm last Wednesday during routine maintenance and inspection, he said.

"While this incident is regretted, we are relieved that nobody was hurt due to the accident," Singh said.


An Indian media report said that an unarmed, practice-version of the BrahMos supersonic missile was accidentally fired into Pakistan during an inspection at a secret satellite base of the Indian Air Force.

Quoting sources in the Indian defence ministry, the report claimed that the missile followed the trajectory that it would have in case of a conflict, but “certain factors” played a role in ensuring that any pre-fed target was out of danger.

The report said that since it was “a practice missile”, it had no warheads. The report also claimed that India informed Pakistan about this “accidental firing” soon after it happened. Pakistan, however, said that India failed to immediately inform Islamabad about the accidental launch, and waited until after the Inter-Services Public Relations announced the incident and sought clarification from New Delhi.

India subsequently acknowledged the incident on Friday, chalking it up to a "technical malfunction", and said that a "high-level court of enquiry" was ordered on the event.

The Foreign Office rejected the "simplistic explanation" offered by India and proposed a joint probe into the incident to establish the facts.

Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi also took the issue up on Monday with his German counterpart and United Nations Secretary General Antonio Guterres.

National Security Adviser Moeed Yusuf had also questioned Delhi's ability to handle sensitive technology in the wake of the incident and urged the world to consider whether India was able to ensure the safety and security of its nuclear weapon systems.

Yusuf called for an investigation into the "real circumstances surrounding" the March 9 incident "to ascertain if this was an inadvertent launch or something more intentional", saying that "it is hard to believe anything this Indian government says."
it seems NSA i the only guy who gives a crap...
 
Indian submarines did not intrude.

You need to do your homework.

There is a right of free passage in any country's EEZ.
You intruded several times. Why only our EEZ? Why not China EEZ? Indians are clever by nature. You destroyed us in 71 because of your clever mind but now, we understand your mindset. Old tactics will not work for India anymore.
 

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