Initiative to buy 16 warplanes for Tk 25,000 crore

[VikingRaider]

Why would BD not want to be-friend India?

Because India's attitude isn't friendly. It has tendency to annex others land. Like they annexed a sovereign country named Hyderabad state with brute force .

Sikkim was another sovereign country and protectorate state of India ,and India was supposed to protect them . They devoured it instead.

However India may not try annex Bangladesh , as it's deadly , but will be hugely beneficial ,if it can annex Rangpur.

There are lots of Lendup Dorje is hiding inside Bangladesh ;pretending to be friend , but actually enemy.

So the bottom line is , who has India as friend , they don't need any other enemy to get annihilated.

That's why Bangladesh will not be friend of India.

@marga

 

[Homo Sapiens]

Yes , and I also didn't mean entire Bangladesh actually. Because India doesn't need entire Bangladesh,it will not be beneficial for them .

India only need only Rangpur division of Bangladesh that is 6250 sq miles only.

But this small part will solve their chicken neck problem.

So yes ,in order to protect Rangpur , we need huge preparation.

Exactly. That's why only Rangpur. I I can remember correctly ,here already an assames user claimed that we took Rampur division unfairly.

It look like troll cliam from him , but Rangpur Division is too much important for India , more than oil and gas , as you won't be interested to sell seven sisters for oil and gas!

Also India isn't powerful as USA that it will seek for oil.

It will seek for it's own land only that is too much vulnerable!

@Indos

India will not try to capture Rangpur division which has 20 million Bangladeshi, 85 percent Muslim. It will create another Kashmir for them. Unlike Crimea, India has no historic, ethnic or religious claim over Rangpur division. If they want to give the excuse of broadening Chicken neck corridor, they will be condemned as aggrisor by the entire world and will never be accepted either by UN or by any country. Remember that, even all powerful global zionist lobby still could not manage Golan heights international recognition(except Trump's America) for Israel which it captured from Syria in 1967 war.

So, even if militarily India can capture the Rangpur division, it will create a huge problem for them

1.Kashmir like insurgency among 20 million mainly Muslim population.
2. Intensely hostile Bangladesh.
3.China helping Bangladesh to recover it's territory as removal of chicken neck corridor will be a problem for China.
4. Global condemnation and non-recognition.

So, I don't think it is a realistic possibility.

I am not worried about India capturing any part of Bangladesh. But their bullying and control freak attitude. I think most realistic danger Bangladesh facing from India is, hindutva goons will take away citizenship of millions of Muslims in Eastern part of India and may try to create another Rohingya crisis. We need powerful deterrence force as a strong arm of our diplomacy to engage with the world. It is not solely for India or Myanmar.

 

[Indos]

Actually we don't have any dispute with Myanmar other than Rohingyas. The land boundary and maritime boundary with Myanmar is fully settled and both country accept that. Now come to St. Martin's Island which you are referring. Actually Myanmar never officially claimed that island or even demanded by any of their govt. officials ever. That island was always part of Bangladesh and internationally recognized territory of Bangladesh which Myanmar also accepted in multiple agreements and treaties. The entire 'problem' arised 2 years ago, when Bangladesh Ministry of Foreign Affairs(MOFA) discovered some of the Myanmar official website maps which included St. Martin's island. Now, the island is so small that it can not be seen in naked eyes on Myanmar map. Can only be seen by zooming. Bangladesh immediately protested and demanded to edit the map, which Myanmar obliged and claimed that it was a mistake. Perhaps they were not serious enough to edit all the map. Few months later, Bangladesh MOFA again discovered some of their govt. website still has that wrong map. Bangladesh again protested and Myanmar again rectified those map and claimed mistake.

This happened two times. Now it may be a genuinely a mistake, given that St. Martin's island is just 8 nautical miles away from Myanmar coast and so small that do not make any presence in a normal one page map. May be the cartographer team made a genuine mistake or many suspect it is related to Rohingya issue, like their helicopter violation of Bangladesh's air space, they wanted another diplomatic incidence to suppress the Rohingya issue. Whatever, our MOFA since then did not discover any of their map with St. Martin's Island so far. you can read my this post to know more about the background of that Island and why Myanmar can never have any legitimate claim over that island.

Why are Bangladesh and Myanmar enemies?

I don't understand. Just tell the truth or perhaps there is some reason you cannot. Maybe you guys are facing many more problems there than I can imagine. Don't even know what this South Asian style is. I am 4th generation in Canada, ancestors from England, Scotland and one from Germany...

defence.pk

Myanmar is a country which is fighting with itself for the last 70 years. So how they can be a credible threat against us? It is a country smaller than Bangladesh in every way except landmass. As I have mentioned, we have no territorial dispute with them and their objective regarding Bangladesh already achieved by expelling Rohingyas. Myanmar don't want anything from Bangladesh other than getting rid of their Rohingyas and seal the border and concentrate on East Asia. Bangladesh and Myanmar belongs to two different geo-political and cultural zone and had minimal interaction historically.

Believe it or not, only because of Rohingya crisis, Bangladeshis are forced to take interest on Myanmar affairs, otherwise it never loomed on our national conscience. I am sure this is also the case with Burmese. They are more interested to concentrate on Thailand and all those countries in the East rather than looking west towards Bangladesh and India. That's why I called, Bangladesh and Myanmar belongs to two different civilization.

For all of these reasons, neither Myanmar is a capable threat to us nor we are a threat to them. Provided that, Rohingya crisis find some acceptable solution we want same cordial yet a distant relationship with Myanmar like we have with Thailand or Vietnam.

Now come to India. It is a country loom large on our national affairs. And we share so may things that there is always a chance to pop-up dispute. Just consider that we share 53 common river with them. We have over 4000 km border to manage. And India is a much powerful country and has a regional and global power ambition, unlike Myanmar. They want to be a hegemonic power and want to control it's neighborhood. This type of attitude is bound to create problems with countries like Bangladesh who are unwilling to live any other country's shadow. Moreover Hindutva fascist are now seated in power in India. they have an inborn hatred against Sub-continental Muslims. So their ideological hatred also include Bangladesh. So we can never be assured of their plot against us. Even if they don't invade us they will try to bully us in many ways. Which we need to resist. A strong defence force of ours can be a potent arm of our diplomacy to resist their pressure. I hope i cleared my position to you.

Yup you are worried with India, but to withstand India you need to be a powerful economic nation. Present power is not enough to do that. It is also a recipe I suggest for Indonesia for its EEZ dispute with China. Many Indonesian PDF members feel happy with the possibility we are going to have 20 billion credit line to buy weapons without thinking those money can be better spend on something more productive.

Pretty much the possibility of Indian to attack Bangladesh and China to attack Indonesia and grab our EEZ is small while US is still very powerful. We still have around 25 years preparation before we are going to see different geopolitical landscape where both India and China become very powerful and US and The West are not the hegemony power anymore.

Better spend on defense responsibly and give much more attention on economy, education, and industry. Actually 4 billion USD for Bangladesh defense budget is already quite enough, adding it with another billion USD will be excessive.

So due to the small budget we have, we should be clever in spending it. For Indonesia case I suggest give some 6 % defense budge for R&D in defense program like Singapore which put 4 % for R&D. All of defense spending must relate to our defense industry advancement. I believe current 9 billion USD defense budget is enough, but I dont want my country get 20 billion USD loan from bank to buy weapon from the West until 2024 like many of Indonesian fanboys would like to think.

We should focus on economy, education, industry, R&D for the next 10 years and increase defense budget responsibly which is inline with our GDP growth during that period. If we have high GDP, it will not be difficult to have huge defense budget isnt it ???

If we do it cleverly so we have chance to withstand those India and China 20-25 years from now where balance of power already favor to them compared to more predicted landscape where US and its ally are the most powerful group on earth. Actually when the times comes, there could be more peaceful than current geopilitics landscape, but we should prepare for the worst.....

 

[VikingRaider]

India will not try to capture Rangpur division which has 20 million Bangladeshi, 95 percent Muslim. It will create another Kashmir for them. Unlike Crimea, India has no historic, ethnic or religious claim over Rangpur division. If they want to give the excuse of broadening Chicken neck corridor, they will be condemned as aggrisor by the entire world and will never be accepted either by UN or by any country. Remember that, even all powerful global zionist lobby still could not manage Golan heights international recognition(except Trump's America) for Israel which it captured from Syria.

So, even if militarily India can capture the Rangpur division, it will create a huge problem for them

1.Kashmir like insurgency among 20 million mainly Muslim population
2. Intensely hostile Bangladesh
3.China helping Bangladesh to recover it's territory as they don't want India to solve it's chicken neck problem.
4. Global condemnation and non recognition

So, I don't thing it is a realistic possibility.

I am not worried about India capturing any part of Bangladesh. But their bullying and control freak attitude. I think most realistic danger Bangladesh facing from India is, hindutva goons will take away citizenship of millions of Muslims in Eastern part of India and may try to create another Rohingya crisis. We need powerful deterrence force as a strong arm of our diplomacy to engage with the world. It is not solely for India or Myanmar.

Well I agree with these points.
India may not be able to annex even Rangpur ( or may not even try ) ,but either they will try their best to do it , or try to make politically destabilise Bangladesh again.

India will not give up , because look if war break out China will wring the chicken neck, so either India would stop backing USA and remain neutral , or lose NE.

But will India remain neutral ? I don't think so , as their goal is to establish Akhanda Bharat ( although their delusional dream will never come true).

And they ( India) will try their best to create the worst kind of anarchy inside Bangladesh and will try to make Bangladesh a failed state that is very easy to control politically. So chicken neck can be solved by making Bangladesh such failed and client state .

So we have to remain prepared for them, so that they can't make us failed state.

Anyway I was actually trying to make them understand that why India is our major threat and not Myanmar, and the main reason is their chicken neck.

They will try their best to make us failed state.

If you can control a failed state and make them dependent on them,why they even need to annex any part of land ,when they can use it without annexing?

Actually that's my main focus. @Homo Sapiens , @Indos

 

[Homo Sapiens]

And they ( India) will try their best to create the worst kind of anarchy inside Bangladesh and will try to make Bangladesh a failed state that is very easy to control politically. So chicken neck can be solved by making Bangladesh such failed and client state .

It is us who are giving a chance to India to take us for granted. And it is due to lack of democracy in Bangladesh. If we had the option to vote out the current India loving govt. then the govt. itself never dared to live like Husband-Wife with India (Momen's theory) and like a devoted wife give everything husband wish for. But Bangladeshi people for now choose economic growth and political stability over dignity it seems. I do not give them blame though, our next 20-30 years is the most crucial period to uplift Bangladesh from the poverty and make a place for itself in the global stage. We can not take risk of political instability or incapable leadership in this period.

 

[VikingRaider]

It is us who are giving a chance to India to meddle in our affairs. And it is due to lack of democracy in Bangladesh. If we had the option to vote out the current India loving govt.

But @Homo Sapiens bhai, so called India hating govt also didn't take any action against India instead of lip servicing and washing people's brain using religion Islam as drug, only for their own benefit. It's called hypocrisy and hypocrites are worse than anyone.

Besides , was any election actually fair in Bangladesh ? I don't think so.

From 1991 we are observing the family dynasty in the name of democracy.

What's the point of such democracy if it doesn't speak or work for people?

Besides , people even can't imagine that jamatis can be India friendly as they openly speak against India.

But look , Al Qaeda was actually created by CIA , and also many believe that Isis is Zionist creation.

So indeed India can use Jamati islami too against Bangladesh to destabilise it politically.

And upore upore Bharat biddesh dekhiye BNP Jamat ze Bharat toshon kore na er guaranty nai kintu.

Just mukhe bharot biddesh dekhiye and dari ar tupir arale ei kaj korle loker chokhe dhula deyata sohoj.
But I will let this matter go for now.

But Bangladeshi people for now choose economic growth and political stability over dignity it seems. I do not give them blame though, our next 20-30 years is the most crucial period to uplift Bangladesh from the poverty and make a place for itself in the global stage. We can not take risk of political instability or incapable leadership in this period.

Yes agree we have to choose economic growth and focus on defence , no disagreement .

And then if we want democracy , that should be western democracy , not the family dynasty in the name of democracy.

The right to choose hypocrites jamatis and looters ( like khamba Tareq's amma ) can't be the sight of dignity.

If we can never establish western democracy , then one party state like China , is much better and also good sign of dignity, although there is no reason that we will tolerate BAL forever.

We can evolve our politicians and can make patriotic political parties .

Although it looks too far.

 

[SpaceMan18]

With the upgrade, BAF can use AMRAM C 7 and AIM 9 X. Not to mention electronic walfare capabilities like jammer. This will be enough to handle Myanmar Su 30 and JF17 block 2

Indonesia - AIM-120C-7 Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAMs) | Defense Security Cooperation Agency

www.dsca.mil

https://www.dsca.mil/press-media/major-arms-sales/indonesia-aim-9x-2-sidewinder-tmissiles

Yea I agree with all your points , but Bangladesh doesn't trust America with it's strings and sanctions so F-16s are off the table for us.

Back in the 90s we wanted F-16s but the U.S refused , and now they want to sell it all of a sudden

But @Homo Sapiens bhai, so called India hating govt also didn't take any action against India instead of lip servicing and washing people's brain using religion Islam as drug, only for their own benefit. It's called hypocrisy and hypocrites are worse than anyone.

Besides , was any election actually fair in Bangladesh ? I don't think so.

From 1991 we are observing the family dynasty in the name of democracy.

What's the point of such democracy if it doesn't speak or work for people?

Besides , people even can't imagine that jamatis can be India friendly as they openly speak against India.

But look , Al Qaeda was actually created by CIA , and also many believe that Isis is Zionist creation.

So indeed India can use Jamati islami too.

And upore upore Bharat biddesh dekhiye BNP Jamat ze Bharat toshon kore na er guaranty nai kintu.

Just dari ar tupir arale ei kaj korle loker chokhe dhula deyata sohoj.
However since no concrete evidences are available ,so I will let this matter go.


Yes agree we have to choose economic growth and focus on defence , no disagreement .

And then if we want democracy , that should be western democracy , not the family dynasty in the name of democracy.

The right to choose hypocrites jamatis and looters ( like khamba Tareq's amma ) can't be the sight of dignity.

If we can never establish western democracy , then one party state like China , is much better and also good sign of dignity, although there is no reason that we will tolerate BAL forever.

We can evolve our politicians and can make patriotic political parties .

Although it looks too far.

Western democracy is kinda fake at certain times , in the U.S we have 2 party monopolies and they are both pretty similar despite one being " liberal "

 

[UKBengali]

This comes to just under 3 billion US dollars.

Not affordable to buy 16 brand new Euro-fighters with this kind of money when you add in infrastructure, weapons, training and maintenance.

 

[Basel]

It will be a disgrace to waste 3 billion on 16 fighter jets given the current state of BAF. BAF needs at least 4 squadrons of 4.5 gen fighters (+AEW&C) for bare minimum deterrence against India + Myanmar..
3 billion could fetch us 48 J-10Cs or 32 Gripens.
I doubt BAF will get any more fighters in the next 10 years if the govt is tied up with repayments for 16 Eurofighters.

If they want to go the expensive route, better hard negotiate to get 3 squadrons of EFTs at significant discount.

@UKBengali @Avicenna @Bilal9

Gripens with Global eye AWACS will be good Force in the region.

 

[Indos]

Yea I agree with all your points , but Bangladesh doesn't trust America with it's strings and sanctions so F-16s are off the table for us.

Back in the 90s we wanted F-16s but the U.S refused , and now they want to sell it all of a sudden

You are not likely a country that will get US embargoes. Indonesia get embargoed because our army killed many East Timor protesters at one occasion, not to mentioned East Timor was a Christian region that is invaded by Indonesian since 1976. That was also the time where US doesnt have any equals as USSR has already collapsed.

Pakistan get embargoed due to nuclear test. While you guys as long as dont act aggressively to other neigbouring countries will be just fine

 

[Basel]

It will be EFTs which will bleed BAF for decades.


BAF has no interest in Gripens at the moment but let us hope future leadership grows a spine and keeps expanding the fleet. Gripen with ToT is the best option for replacing the entire existing fleet and expanding further.

Gripens suits more as it's designed for smaller force facing big force, it can be maintained by 6 persons on road run ways also it is very highly networked bird with Global Eye AEWC & Sord Fish MPAs it can be force to recon with, also UAVs a UCAVs can be added in that mix.

Go for the Typhoon guys, 16 is a great start and it's an incredible plane.
The UK has strong links to Bangladesh, and BAE will be more than willing.

Why go for EFT when Gripens can do job with better numbers and maintenance.

Sure, even Indian army can hold BAF with S-400 deployment.
I wish BD could go for gripen. Reliable plane, but not with AAMRAM. It can have meteor to keep Myanmar SU-30s at bay. But meteor are very expensive.
Plus single engine fighter are cheap to procure, cheap to maintain, and cheap to operate.. Can gripen fire, AAMRAM @Indos ? Also, you cna buy AWACS from Sweden when you have bought Gripen.

BD should not have problem in getting Gripens with Meteor, IRIS-T or ASRAAM missiles.

BD can go for complete package deal with Sweden for Jets, MPAs, AWACS, AShM and possibly stealth ships and submarines.

 

[waz]

Brother stick to the topic. It's a third history, a third strategic talk and a third about the actual jets.

This comes to just under 3 billion US dollars.

Not affordable to buy 16 brand new Euro-fighters with this kind of money when you add in infrastructure, weapons, training and maintenance.

The Qatar deal is 24 planes at $6.6 billion dollars, with everything.

BAE Systems finalises deal to sell Typhoon jets to Qatar

British defence contractor BAE Systems <BAES.L> said that a 5 billion pound contract to sell 24 Typhoon fighter jets to Qatar became effective on Tuesday after conditions were met, giving it its first payment from the deal.

www.reuters.com

So yes it's a little over with 16 planes but 12 are possible.

 

[alphapak]

No Air force has 100% availability rate of their fighter jets, I wonder how BAF
will fare if they get 16 Eurofighters?

Will the BAF get 16 used Eurofighters? or a mix of of used and new like Greece is getting
from France?

 

[Leishangthem]

Why Indian will not invade and attack Bangladesh

Bangladesh is highly dense region with 90 % Muslim and dont have much oil and gas. I dont think Indian is interested to grab your nation as I have stated in my previous post. More on that, India has already had enough land, even they still spare much of it for their tiger reservation, pretty much North East is still much less populated as well.

Annexing Bangladesh can weaken their economy and they will get sanction from UN and embargo from Muslim nations, remember much of Indian oil and gas comes from Middle East. It is also not easy to wage war with nation who has 160 million people either.

Some perceived threat might comes from emotion than logic

Did sikkim had oil and gas resources? so why did India annexed it? it's for strategic advantage,and India would gladly topple BD than let it be a strategic Achilles heel during war scenario,given a choice . Even if India don't topple bd altogether, strategically speaking ,it can try to capture areas near the "chicken neck " to widen the cross-section link with NE india as much as it can.
North East having less population but still has 45 million,though the majority are located in assam and tripura with BD immigrants forming large populace therein. That doesn't mean mainland Indians can flock to NE states like nagaland/arunachal.mizoram/manipur,these are highly ethnically conscious region that are being part of the union on the basis of the protection of their lands and rights from any outsiders ,including other NE states,the moment flood gates open it will likely be all out protest . So ,NE having less population means moot,it requires permit(ILP) for non state natives to enter and non indigenous can't procure land in many of the states.

 

[Homo Sapiens]

This comes to just under 3 billion US dollars.

Not affordable to buy 16 brand new Euro-fighters with this kind of money when you add in infrastructure, weapons, training and maintenance.

25200 crore Taka actually touch 3 billion Dollar in current exchange rate.(1 USD=84.67 BDT)

Each plane costing 187 million Dollar. I think it is possible to buy 16 brand new Eurofighter with $3 billion.

Qatar is buying 24 brand new Eurofighter Typhoon at 6.6 billion Dollar with everything included (infrastructure, weapons, training, maintenance etc.) But $6.6 billion is listed price. Actual price would be less than that which is not disclosed. We will buy G to G basis. So, price of 16 Eurofighter Typhoon may tagged at 4.4 billion Dollar but actually Bangladesh have to pay $3 billion I guess. Otherwise why this exact figure of 25,200 crore? Why not round 20 or 30 thousand crore?
@waz