Classical music thread

[RAMPAGE]

Giunse alfin il momento from Mozart's Le Nozze Di Figaro. Perhaps one of the most romantic arias ever composed. This happens to be the best recording in existence. Definitely my desert island aria.

For you, @Joe Shearer. My favourite recording of the piece. Simply breathtaking.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Beautifully chosen, Janaab. The 622 blew me away. I have to go out and buy some bread, and intend to put it on again immediately afterwards.

 

[RAMPAGE]

Beautifully chosen, Janaab. The 622 blew me away. I have to go out and buy some bread, and intend to put it on again immediately afterwards.

Do you have a favourite recording?

 

[Joe Shearer]

Do you have a favourite recording?

I don't know who it was playing, or even the orchestra. It was on tape, and it might still play - unlikely, it's years old. In any case, it's in Dera Bassi; insh'allah, I will have my books and my music around me in 2018. It was truly magical, especially the adagio. I've never heard the like.

 

[RAMPAGE]

I don't know who it was playing, or even the orchestra. It was on tape, and it might still play - unlikely, it's years old. In any case, it's in Dera Bassi; insh'allah, I will have my books and my music around me in 2018. It was truly magical, especially the adagio. I've never heard the like.

You take the Lord's name in vain, Joe.

Spoiler

I am as Godless as they come.

Do you like his Oboe concerto?

 

[Joe Shearer]

You take the Lord's name in vain, Joe.

Spoiler

I am as Godless as they come.

Do you like his Oboe concerto?

Yes, not quite as much, but emphatically, yes. I started liking his concertos after listening to Dennis Brain on trumpet.

 

[RAMPAGE]

Yes, not quite as much, but emphatically, yes. I started liking his concertos after listening to Dennis Brain on trumpet.

Ooh, I have to check that out. Yes, it is definitely not as good as the clarinet concerto, but it beautifully echoes that wonderful leapfrogging, capriciousness one sees in Mozart's music, or for that matter, his personality. It's just so full of life.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Ooh, I have to check that out. Yes, it is definitely not as good as the clarinet concerto, but it beautifully echoes that wonderful leapfrogging, capriciousness one sees in Mozart's music, or for that matter, his personality. It's just so full of life.

After reading what you wrote about Mozart, I sat thinking for a long while.

Mozart is a composer you can listen to in happy times, in melancholy times, both. But not in the depths of despair. He needs sunshine. It is at that point that the essential difference between him and Beethoven shines through. Just to strengthen this conviction, I put on Fidelio, and felt vindicated immediately. Beethoven is good for sunshine and for the depths of despair alike; he is not bound to fair weather alone. There is not a single Mozart piece that helps you when in the depths of despair; but Beethoven has not only his only opera, but the elemental and forceful 9th as well. You mentioned the 'leapfrogging, capriciousness' that one sees in Mozart's music; you do realise that it is firmly hemmed in by the very careful development and forward movement from Handel's similar but far less creative oeuvre, to an extent that Beethoven was not.

After reading what you wrote about Mozart, I sat thinking for a long while.

Mozart is a composer you can listen to in happy times, in melancholy times, both. But not in the depths of despair. He needs sunshine. It is at that point that the essential difference between him and Beethoven shines through. Just to strengthen this conviction, I put on Fidelio, and felt vindicated immediately. Beethoven is good for sunshine and for the depths of despair alike; he is not bound to fair weather alone. There is not a single Mozart piece that helps you when in the depths of despair; but Beethoven has not only his only opera, but the elemental and forceful 9th as well. You mentioned the 'leapfrogging, capriciousness' that one sees in Mozart's music; you do realise that it is firmly hemmed in by the very careful development and forward movement from Handel's similar but far less creative oeuvre, to an extent that Beethoven was not.

As it happens, on the very page that I found this copy of Fidelio, there is a concrete example of Beethoven's powerful invocatory releases: the 1953 version of Fidelio, that was played soon after the war, conducted by Furtwaengler, in Vienna. It is interesting to read Furtwaengler on the subject of Fidelio after the dreadful events of the Second World War had occurred, and after Europe had been bathed in blood and in wickedness. It was at that point of release from the rigours of intellectual imprisonment that Beethoven made the most sense. It is for that reason, those reasons that Furtwaengler talked about so feelingly, that makes me listen to Beethoven again and again, as I reflect on the wilful and deadly destruction of a state that is taking place all around.

 

[Nilgiri]

OMG, wish I watched it live:

There is not a single Mozart piece that helps you when in the depths of despair

I find if you enjoy the somber Mozart pieces for what they are....that sort of helps because parts remind you of the beauty in despair itself. You are very right that Beethoven was much better at actually ramping from despair to hope, he was a gifted dynamist...probably the best. Mozart was the consummate melodicist in comparison. Thats why I remember Mozarts sublime melodies, whereas for Beethoven its really the whole work and structure of the tempos, simple but effective cycles and crescendos that stand out (but really are somewhat of an esoteric force when you are actually listening). Can't really describe what Beethoven is tbh.

 

[RAMPAGE]

After reading what you wrote about Mozart, I sat thinking for a long while.

Mozart is a composer you can listen to in happy times, in melancholy times, both. But not in the depths of despair. He needs sunshine. It is at that point that the essential difference between him and Beethoven shines through. Just to strengthen this conviction, I put on Fidelio, and felt vindicated immediately. Beethoven is good for sunshine and for the depths of despair alike; he is not bound to fair weather alone. There is not a single Mozart piece that helps you when in the depths of despair; but Beethoven has not only his only opera, but the elemental and forceful 9th as well. You mentioned the 'leapfrogging, capriciousness' that one sees in Mozart's music; you do realise that it is firmly hemmed in by the very careful development and forward movement from Handel's similar but far less creative oeuvre, to an extent that Beethoven was not.



As it happens, on the very page that I found this copy of Fidelio, there is a concrete example of Beethoven's powerful invocatory releases: the 1953 version of Fidelio, that was played soon after the war, conducted by Furtwaengler, in Vienna. It is interesting to read Furtwaengler on the subject of Fidelio after the dreadful events of the Second World War had occurred, and after Europe had been bathed in blood and in wickedness. It was at that point of release from the rigours of intellectual imprisonment that Beethoven made the most sense. It is for that reason, those reasons that Furtwaengler talked about so feelingly, that makes me listen to Beethoven again and again, as I reflect on the wilful and deadly destruction of a state that is taking place all around.

I have missed you, Joe. You have no idea how this resonates with me. Thank you for taking the time to write this.

By the way, who's your favourite Beethoven interpreter? @Nilgiri

Can't really describe what Beethoven is tbh.

I'd say his music is the purest expression of human emotion. Can't do any better than that.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I have missed you, Joe. You have no idea how this resonates with me. Thank you for taking the time to write this.

By the way, who's your favourite Beethoven interpreter? @Nilgiri

I'd say his music is the purest expression of human emotion. Can't do any better than that.

@Nilgiri
@RAMPAGE

You have no idea how detoxifying this thread is turning out to be. Thank you both.

@RAMPAGE

Are you talking musician or composer? In either case, I shall wait to read what @Nilgiri has to say. His intervention was unexpected and deeply heartening.

OMG, wish I watched it live:

I find if you enjoy the somber Mozart pieces for what they are....that sort of helps because parts remind you of the beauty in despair itself. You are very right that Beethoven was much better at actually ramping from despair to hope, he was a gifted dynamist...probably the best. Mozart was the consummate melodicist in comparison. Thats why I remember Mozarts sublime melodies, whereas for Beethoven its really the whole work and structure of the tempos, simple but effective cycles and crescendos that stand out (but really are somewhat of an esoteric force when you are actually listening). Can't really describe what Beethoven is tbh.

Webbie does not want me to thank people. Otherwise, your mail would have been strewn with thanks all over.

@Nilgiri, that little throw-away line above was great.

 

[RAMPAGE]

@Nilgiri
@RAMPAGE

You have no idea how detoxifying this thread is turning out to be. Thank you both.

@RAMPAGE

Are you talking musician or composer? In either case, I shall wait to read what @Nilgiri has to say. His intervention was unexpected and deeply heartening.



Webbie does not want me to thank people. Otherwise, your mail would have been strewn with thanks all over.

@Nilgiri, that little throw-away line above was great.

Musician. I think Barenboim may be the best interpreter of Beethoven I've come across. Also, I just love his politics. I have a dream of doing something akin to his West-Eastern Divan Orchestra for India and Pakistan. I would love to see a similar orchestra situated in Hunza. Imagine that.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Musician. I think Barenboim may be the best interpreter of Beethoven I've come across. Also, I just love his politics. I have a dream of doing something akin to his West-Eastern Divan Orchestra for India and Pakistan. I would love to see a similar orchestra situated in Hunza. Imagine that.

Oistrakh and Barenboim, and I agree with your view of his (Barenboim's) politics. Aapro Zubin should have been a suitable ambassador, but he is too deeply committed to Israel to get any support in Pakistan.

I also like Perlman.

What do you think of Heifetz? Did you know about that wisecrack when he made his debut at Carnegie Hall? Mischa Elman was in the audience, during this sensational occasion. After the playing, he asked his neighbour, a pianist, "Don't you think it's hot in here?" Pat came the reply,"Not for pianists!" And of course, Kreisler saying after hearing him play for the first time, "We might as well take our fiddles and break them across our knees." He never made it look an effort.

To be honest, I can't say between these people who is better or worse; my ears aren't sufficiently finely tuned. I just know that I love their playing.

 

[RAMPAGE]

Oistrakh and Barenboim, and I agree with your view of his (Barenboim's) politics. Aapro Zubin should have been a suitable ambassador, but he is too deeply committed to Israel to get any support in Pakistan.

I also like Perlman.

What do you think of Heifetz? Did you know about that wisecrack when he made his debut at Carnegie Hall? Mischa Elman was in the audience, during this sensational occasion. After the playing, he asked his neighbour, a pianist, "Don't you think it's hot in here?" Pat came the reply,"Not for pianists!" And of course, Kreisler saying after hearing him play for the first time, "We might as well take our fiddles and break them across our knees." He never made it look an effort.

To be honest, I can't say between these people who is better or worse; my ears aren't sufficiently finely tuned. I just know that I love their playing.

But we have talked about Heifetz, Joe. I've told you he's my favourite violinist. Heifetz's Tchaikovsky violin concerto, Brahm's violin concerto, Bach's 2nd partita, Bach's concerto for two violins, Bach's violin concerti in E major and A minor, Beethoven's Romance in F major, Mozart's 5th violin concerto and Mozart's Sinfonia Concertante are best interpretations ever. However, only Perlman can do justice to Beethoven's violin concerto. I'm talking about the recording he made with Karajan's Berliner with Barenboim conducting.

And yes, I've heard it all. Have you seen the beautiful 12-year-old composer, violinist, pianist Alma Deutscher? Just listen to the Largo. It's simply incredulous.

@Joe Shearer

Oh, and as far as ears go, I had a certain admirer of Vivaldi tell me that I have delicious eardrums.

 

[Joe Shearer]

But we have talked about Heifetz, Joe. I've told you he's my favourite violinist. Heifetz's Tchaikovsky violin concerto, Brahm's violin concerto, Bach's 2nd partita, Bach's concerto for two violins, Bach's violin concerti in E major and A minor, Beethoven's Romance in F major, Mozart's 5th violin concerto and Mozart's Sinfonia Concertante are best interpretations ever. However, only Perlman can do justice to Beethoven's violin concerto. I'm talking about the recording he made with Karajan's Berliner with Barenboim conducting.

And yes, I've heard it all. Have you seen the beautiful 12-year-old composer, violinist, pianist Alma Deutscher? Just listen to the Largo. It's simply incredulous.

@Joe Shearer

Oh, and as far as ears go, I had a certain admirer of Vivaldi tell me that I have delicious eardrums.

I remember now; too late, and with egg all over my face. It was your repeated praise of Heifetz that made me go back, dig out recordings and listen to them over and over again. <sigh!> the travails of age!

Delicious, eh? Hope they are not ticklish!