U.S. wants the Taliban to accept at least two military bases, Bagram and Shorabak. Taliban say NO

[gambit]

the saudis would have handed him over to you in a jiff. should have taken the offer!

Then why not just hand Osama bin Laden over to US? We have no faith in the Saudis.

But why avoid the other question, namely, why not evict Osama bin Laden and Al-Qaeda out of Afghanistan? Do it the middle of the night. Then we will take it from there.

Bottom line is that Mullah Omar fokked up BIG TIME. You want your country free of outsiders? Then do not host someone who has a beef with someone else. That is common sense, right? Or do YOU believe that Mullah Omar was completely ignorant of what Osama bin Laden and Al-Qaeda are and do?

When Afghanistan was invaded by the Soviets, Afghanistan pretty much earned global sympathy. But when Afghanistan was invaded by US, who came to Afghanistan's aid? Nobody. Sure, you can count on individuals, but against the Soviets, you were looking at states while against US, you were looking at empty spaces. What does that tell you? Could it be that it was US -- the invaders -- was perceived as the righteous victim? And here today in this little corner of the Internet, we get a few Pakistanis who were borned after 2001 defending the Taliban.

No, the Saudis would not have handed Osama bin Laden to US. The Saudis would either kill him or hide him.

Many people believe that 9/11 was an inside job.

And many believe in and worships imaginary supernatural beings.

 

[Path-Finder]

Then why not just hand Osama bin Laden over to US? We have no faith in the Saudis.

But why avoid the other question, namely, why not evict Osama bin Laden and Al-Qaeda out of Afghanistan? Do it the middle of the night. Then we will take it from there.

Bottom line is that Mullah Omar fokked up BIG TIME. You want your country free of outsiders? Then do not host someone who has a beef with someone else. That is common sense, right? Or do YOU believe that Mullah Omar was completely ignorant of what Osama bin Laden and Al-Qaeda are and do?

When Afghanistan was invaded by the Soviets, Afghanistan pretty much earned global sympathy. But when Afghanistan was invaded by US, who came to Afghanistan's aid? Nobody. Sure, you can count on individuals, but against the Soviets, you were looking at states while against US, you were looking at empty spaces. What does that tell you? Could it be that it was US -- the invaders -- was perceived as the righteous victim? And here today in this little corner of the Internet, we get a few Pakistanis who were borned after 2001 defending the Taliban.

No, the Saudis would not have handed Osama bin Laden to US. The Saudis would either kill him or hide him.


And many believe in and worships imaginary supernatural beings.

There are A LOT of ASSUMPTIONS this that the other. Lets face the facts that stand before us. No one knows what Mullah Omar wanted he is dead and gone. But the fact is 17 years of might and arrogance brings us back full circle to where things began. In a far worse state. The invaders want a little shack in a country it doesn't share a border with and after annoying the entire region.

The moral equivalent to the founding fathers are the ones who you fight today. Maybe from your little corner you can tell us were the founding fathers of your country terrorists too?

 

[UnitedPak]

Bottom line is that Mullah Omar fokked up BIG TIME. You want your country free of outsiders? Then do not host someone who has a beef with someone else. That is common sense, right? Or do YOU believe that Mullah Omar was completely ignorant of what Osama bin Laden and Al-Qaeda are and do?

You missed the part where US intelligence invited Osama to Afghanistan and made him the most powerful person there with considerable resources (Saudi funds in a dirt poor country) and thousands of men (entire AQ army with CIA training, at the time) at his disposal. The arrogance on display here is frankly unbelievable. You expect foreign governments to declare war on American instruction without question and without regard for their own interests. CIA has always had a presence in Afghanistan and considerable links with Al Qaeda and the Mujaheddin. This was never about punishing Osama.

 

[truthseeker2010]

Name a country which shares border with and from where USA can keep an eye on... IRAN, CHINA and RUSSIA...

You have your answer... they are not going to leave this place...

If you look the other way, what better place to settle the odds?

 

[gambit]

There are A LOT of ASSUMPTIONS this that the other.

Hmmm...And YOU made none? Odd.

...17 years of might and arrogance brings us back full circle to where things began. In a far worse state. The invaders want a little shack in a country it doesn't share a border with and after annoying the entire region.

That 17 yrs is the price Afghanistan paid for the Taliban, under Mullah Omar, for making US begged for 10 yrs.

People here mocked US for begging the Taliban today. That is hilarious.

We begged Taliban arses for 10 yrs. Then we kicked Taliban arses in a matter of days. Care to guess which action is more important?

The region is annoyed? Tough shit. After 10 yrs of begging, we earned the right to squat, drop a load, point to that load and say 'Tough shit', and shove everyone's faces in that shit. Which part of 10 yrs of begging do you not understand? You think your Pakistan would feel righteous after 10 yrs of begging after an important issue and got nothing in return?

The moral equivalent to the founding fathers are the ones who you fight today. Maybe from your little corner you can tell us were the founding fathers of your country terrorists too?

There is no moral equivalent here. Who we hosted in the White House back in 1983 have nothing to do with the Taliban of Sept 11, 2001.

For starter, the Taliban did not exist, as a movement and eventually a political/military force, when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan. This alone disqualified your feeble attempt at making a moral comparison.

Next, the American Founding Fathers fought for independence, whereas, Afghanistan was already an established country when the Taliban took over. There are plenty of sources that shows Afghanistan before the Taliban.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/...-enjoy-outdoor-picnics-colourful-markets.html

The American Founding Fathers did not want to regress the colonies but to improve the territory under a new country.

So forget about that silly comparison.

 

[MultaniGuy]

Hmmm...And YOU made none? Odd.


That 17 yrs is the price Afghanistan paid for the Taliban, under Mullah Omar, for making US begged for 10 yrs.

People here mocked US for begging the Taliban today. That is hilarious.

We begged Taliban arses for 10 yrs. Then we kicked Taliban arses in a matter of days. Care to guess which action is more important?

The region is annoyed? Tough shit. After 10 yrs of begging, we earned the right to squat, drop a load, point to that load and say 'Tough shit', and shove everyone's faces in that shit. Which part of 10 yrs of begging do you not understand? You think your Pakistan would feel righteous after 10 yrs of begging after an important issue and got nothing in return?


There is no moral equivalent here. Who we hosted in the White House back in 1983 have nothing to do with the Taliban of Sept 11, 2001.

For starter, the Taliban did not exist, as a movement and eventually a political/military force, when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan. This alone disqualified your feeble attempt at making a moral comparison.

Next, the American Founding Fathers fought for independence, whereas, Afghanistan was already an established country when the Taliban took over. There are plenty of sources that shows Afghanistan before the Taliban.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/...-enjoy-outdoor-picnics-colourful-markets.html

The American Founding Fathers did not want to regress the colonies but to improve the territory under a new country.

So forget about that silly comparison.

LOL kicking the Afghan Taliban's asses? Looked like the Afghan Taliban kicked your a/s/s!

Why is USA negotiating with the Afghan Taliban? Is that just for games? Why is USA admitting that there can be no military solution to Afghanistan? LOL.

Keep fighting there and get killed and maimed there!

 

[gambit]

You missed the part where US intelligence invited Osama to Afghanistan and made him the most powerful person there ...

Really...???

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/...s-his-army-on-the-road-to-peace-28791041.html

'Personally neither I nor my brothers saw evidence of American help. When my mujahedin were victorious and the Russians were driven out, differences started (between the guerrilla movements) so I returned to road construction in Taif and Abha. I brought back the equipment I had used to build tunnels and roads for the mujahedin in Afghanistan. Yes, I helped some of my comrades to come here to Sudan after the war.'

From the mouth of Osama bin Laden himself, buddy. And Robert Fisk is no friend of US.

 

[Path-Finder]

Hmmm...And YOU made none? Odd.


That 17 yrs is the price Afghanistan paid for the Taliban, under Mullah Omar, for making US begged for 10 yrs.

People here mocked US for begging the Taliban today. That is hilarious.

We begged Taliban arses for 10 yrs. Then we kicked Taliban arses in a matter of days. Care to guess which action is more important?

The region is annoyed? Tough shit. After 10 yrs of begging, we earned the right to squat, drop a load, point to that load and say 'Tough shit', and shove everyone's faces in that shit. Which part of 10 yrs of begging do you not understand? You think your Pakistan would feel righteous after 10 yrs of begging after an important issue and got nothing in return?


There is no moral equivalent here. Who we hosted in the White House back in 1983 have nothing to do with the Taliban of Sept 11, 2001.

For starter, the Taliban did not exist, as a movement and eventually a political/military force, when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan. This alone disqualified your feeble attempt at making a moral comparison.

Next, the American Founding Fathers fought for independence, whereas, Afghanistan was already an established country when the Taliban took over. There are plenty of sources that shows Afghanistan before the Taliban.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/...-enjoy-outdoor-picnics-colourful-markets.html

The American Founding Fathers did not want to regress the colonies but to improve the territory under a new country.

So forget about that silly comparison.

if only TALKING CLAPTRAP HELPED I did make a historic mistake, the likes of the founding fathers would have been called Brownists in that period, so....anyway! (As a side note I guess the taliban are like the natives indigenous Indian tribes that had to be cleansed for Murica to be made? Or am I wrong?)

Ahh Hmmn. Here is the issue. You ain't getting an easy pass. Don't like it? Tough. should have thought about it before wading in all macho and arrogant. Winston Churchill once remarked that the yanks do the right thing after exhausting every wrong thing. I guess now talking to the taliban seems to what should have happened the first time around but, how will military industrial complex make money.

lets actually forget afghanistan for a sec and cast our minds back to vietnam. A war that could have been won but chose to leave that country in the far east. A reasoning we hear is IF only we had another decade or so!

Situation here aint the same

The region that surrounds will decide what happens in afghanistan. You can holler all you like but no one wants you in that region especially now! But it appears it's better that you stay there because strangely no one wants you to leave. except the taliban ofcourse.

 

[gambit]

if only TALKING CLAPTRAP HELPED

With the Taliban, apparently not. We learned after 10 yrs of trying.

(As a side note I guess the taliban are like the natives indigenous Indian tribes that had to be cleansed for Murica to be made? Or am I wrong?)

You are wrong. The Taliban is nothing like the Amerinds. What the early Americans did to the Amerinds were wrong and modern day Americans conceded so. But what we are doing to the Taliban is not wrong and never will be. Which part of 10 yrs of BEGGING to them that escaped you? Your avoidance of that says more about you than anything you can spout about US, namely, cowardice.

should have thought about it before wading in all macho and arrogant.

Wading? We fokking stomped into Afghanistan, pal. We scattered the Taliban to the winds. We stepped into shit and everything else and paid no mind to it. After 10 yrs of begging, you bet we marched into Afghanistan macho and arrogant. We fokking earned it, buddy.

I guess now talking to the taliban seems to what should have happened the first time around but,...

Talking? Why not said that to the Taliban? Never mind, that was a rhetorical question anyway. I do not expect you to hold any fellow Muslim accountable for his actions.

It is very simple, buddy. If you do not want your country to be involved in war, then do not host one of the belligerents.

I will grant YOU the generosity that you do not need to be in the military or a veteran (like me) to grasp that simply logic. In other words, it is so common sense that even a civilian could understand.

...how will military industrial complex make money.

Spare me the stale and discredited canard.

lets actually forget afghanistan for a sec and cast our minds back to vietnam.

You are in no position to debate the Vietnam War with me. If you are smart, you should take that warning seriously. But judging from your posts so far in this thread, smart ain't seems to be a descriptor for you.

The region that surrounds will decide what happens in afghanistan.

That is hilarious. After 17 yrs of American presence in Afghanistan, NO ONE came to the Taliban's aid. The best your Pakistan can do and have done is repeatedly backstabbed US in politics. Other than that, no one entered the fray.

No, it is WE who will decide what happens in Afghanistan. I say the US should leave Afghanistan and let the country and the Taliban be the Muslims' problem. Sure, for a short time, the Muslims will cheer and jeered that the US was 'defeated' in Afghanistan. Another 'empire' lost. But after a few yrs, the Taliban with its nature will create troubles for ALL of you, with your Pakistan with the biggest headache. We proved our point, that if you fokk with US, we will beat you and drink from your skulls.

 

[Path-Finder]

With the Taliban, apparently not. We learned after 10 yrs of trying.


You are wrong. The Taliban is nothing like the Amerinds. What the early Americans did to the Amerinds were wrong and modern day Americans conceded so. But what we are doing to the Taliban is not wrong and never will be. Which part of 10 yrs of BEGGING to them that escaped you? Your avoidance of that says more about you than anything you can spout about US, namely, cowardice.


Wading? We fokking stomped into Afghanistan, pal. We scattered the Taliban to the winds. We stepped into shit and everything else and paid no mind to it. After 10 yrs of begging, you bet we marched into Afghanistan macho and arrogant. We fokking earned it, buddy.


Talking? Why not said that to the Taliban? Never mind, that was a rhetorical question anyway. I do not expect you to hold any fellow Muslim accountable for his actions.

It is very simple, buddy. If you do not want your country to be involved in war, then do not host one of the belligerents.

I will grant YOU the generosity that you do not need to be in the military or a veteran (like me) to grasp that simply logic. In other words, it is so common sense that even a civilian could understand.


Spare me the stale and discredited canard.


You are in no position to debate the Vietnam War with me. If you are smart, you should take that warning seriously. But judging from your posts so far in this thread, smart ain't seems to be a descriptor for you.


That is hilarious. After 17 yrs of American presence in Afghanistan, NO ONE came to the Taliban's aid. The best your Pakistan can do and have done is repeatedly backstabbed US in politics. Other than that, no one entered the fray.

No, it is WE who will decide what happens in Afghanistan. I say the US should leave Afghanistan and let the country and the Taliban be the Muslims' problem. Sure, for a short time, the Muslims will cheer and jeered that the US was 'defeated' in Afghanistan. Another 'empire' lost. But after a few yrs, the Taliban with its nature will create troubles for ALL of you, with your Pakistan with the biggest headache. We proved our point, that if you fokk with US, we will beat you and drink from your skulls.

Again the only thing I take away from you posts is sheer arrogance and that gung ho bull crap that we see in a lot of typical yankee outbursts. Talking nonsense is not going to help your cause on the ground chap.

I guess every yank is accountable for his action is he? what a feking joke Problem is when you have to write an essay full of nonsense showing how macho you are it loses substance.

For the 3rd lets come back down to earth and look at the situation at hand. 17 years have passed. Gone full circle and we stand at where it began at a far worse state. taliban are in areas where they were not pre 2k1! Its your gov that wants to talk to them and have two pigeon posts in that country.

what say you now?

 

[gambit]

Problem is when you have to write an essay full of nonsense showing how macho you are it loses substance.

Substance? From you?

I bet you did not even KNOW that we were trying to negotiate with the Taliban for 10 yrs prior to Sept 11, 2001. Your continual avoidance of that fact is evident enough of that. So if you are so ignorant of the history of the subject, what make you think you had any 'substance' in the first place? I bet you are one of those who believed that we invaded Afghanistan 'for oil'.

Let us see...

When the Soviets invaded Afghanistan, the world sympathized and a coalition of Westerners and muslims entered the country and fought the Soviets. But when the US invaded Afghanistan, no one stepped forward. Why not? Did Putin hosts the Taliban the way Raygun hosted the Afghan leaders? For 17 yrs and all we have is a few Pakistanis on a weee little corner of the Internet cheering for Afghanistan.

And YOU criticizes me on 'substance'?

 

[Path-Finder]

Substance? From you?

I bet you did not even KNOW that we were trying to negotiate with the Taliban for 10 yrs prior to Sept 11, 2001. Your continual avoidance of that fact is evident enough of that. So if you are so ignorant of the history of the subject, what make you think you had any 'substance' in the first place? I bet you are one of those who believed that we invaded Afghanistan 'for oil'.

Let us see...

When the Soviets invaded Afghanistan, the world sympathized and a coalition of Westerners and muslims entered the country and fought the Soviets. But when the US invaded Afghanistan, no one stepped forward. Why not? Did Putin hosts the Taliban the way Raygun hosted the Afghan leaders? For 17 yrs and all we have is a few Pakistanis on a weee little corner of the Internet cheering for Afghanistan.

And YOU criticizes me on 'substance'?

Again you have posted another load non-sense instead of hallmark 'balony' long essay, so at least we have made progress. Again I come back to the same point we are not in 2k1 we are in 2k18. Now since you have substance and we do not do enlighten us on this. What the feck have you done in 17 years that you can sell us holier than thou substance? As I mentioned Vietnam (which seems to have lit a flair) we seem to heading down something along that dual carriageway.

As for invading afghanistan for oil, I remember this very well in the late 90's the taliban were in your neck of the woods for talks! Here is the thing they didn't get the invitation to sell afghani sheep to your markets. Or start playing bilateral buzkashi with you. strangely when you search for taliban in the US, the results are omitted. So you can tell us with substance what were they doing there?

were negotiations pre 2k1 same as they are in 2k18?

 

[kingQamaR]

With the Taliban, apparently not. We learned after 10 yrs of trying.


You are wrong. The Taliban is nothing like the Amerinds. What the early Americans did to the Amerinds were wrong and modern day Americans conceded so. But what we are doing to the Taliban is not wrong and never will be. Which part of 10 yrs of BEGGING to them that escaped you? Your avoidance of that says more about you than anything you can spout about US, namely, cowardice.


Wading? We fokking stomped into Afghanistan, pal. We scattered the Taliban to the winds. We stepped into shit and everything else and paid no mind to it. After 10 yrs of begging, you bet we marched into Afghanistan macho and arrogant. We fokking earned it, buddy.


Talking? Why not said that to the Taliban? Never mind, that was a rhetorical question anyway. I do not expect you to hold any fellow Muslim accountable for his actions.

It is very simple, buddy. If you do not want your country to be involved in war, then do not host one of the belligerents.

I will grant YOU the generosity that you do not need to be in the military or a veteran (like me) to grasp that simply logic. In other words, it is so common sense that even a civilian could understand.


Spare me the stale and discredited canard.


You are in no position to debate the Vietnam War with me. If you are smart, you should take that warning seriously. But judging from your posts so far in this thread, smart ain't seems to be a descriptor for you.


That is hilarious. After 17 yrs of American presence in Afghanistan, NO ONE came to the Taliban's aid. The best your Pakistan can do and have done is repeatedly backstabbed US in politics. Other than that, no one entered the fray.

No, it is WE who will decide what happens in Afghanistan. I say the US should leave Afghanistan and let the country and the Taliban be the Muslims' problem. Sure, for a short time, the Muslims will cheer and jeered that the US was 'defeated' in Afghanistan. Another 'empire' lost. But after a few yrs, the Taliban with its nature will create troubles for ALL of you, with your Pakistan with the biggest headache. We proved our point, that if you fokk with US, we will beat you and drink from your skulls.

Problem you have now is holding onto Afghanistan

Substance? From you?

I bet you did not even KNOW that we were trying to negotiate with the Taliban for 10 yrs prior to Sept 11, 2001. Your continual avoidance of that fact is evident enough of that. So if you are so ignorant of the history of the subject, what make you think you had any 'substance' in the first place? I bet you are one of those who believed that we invaded Afghanistan 'for oil'.

Let us see...

When the Soviets invaded Afghanistan, the world sympathized and a coalition of Westerners and muslims entered the country and fought the Soviets. But when the US invaded Afghanistan, no one stepped forward. Why not? Did Putin hosts the Taliban the way Raygun hosted the Afghan leaders? For 17 yrs and all we have is a few Pakistanis on a weee little corner of the Internet cheering for Afghanistan.

And YOU criticizes me on 'substance'?

It must be really hurting for you and Your American patriots, from reading your silly posts here. waking up every morning dreading those mortal words. From your chief Mr President from the whitehouse speech to the nation youve been fearing. Afghanistan war is lost fellow Americans. We are now evacuating our American forces. The tide has changed against you in the afghan war. You no longer seek victory listen too your officials you dumb ***. The strategy is to make peace deal with the Taliban now. Yes you did enter Afghanistan 2001 with no resistance as all expected. And that was your fatal error mistake going there. Now your there what have you’ve actually achieved. Trillion dollars later I see you people crying for Pakistan to extract you from your defeat. No that’s not going to happen after your petty sanctions against us you did. You should have given us our f16s squadron would have been far cheaper to pay us off then. Enjoy your war in Afghanistan son it’s getting interesting lol

 

[gambit]

Afghanistan war is lost fellow Americans.

News for you...The average American DO NOT care if we 'lost' in Afghanistan. We know the country is lost to a bunch of backward minded savages taking Afghanistan and the people to nowhere. You think the average Americans at the bar or coffee house are going to break down in tears if US military withdraw tomorrow and leave Afghanistan to the Taliban? No, we will toss our hands and say 'We tried', and let the world be known that if you fokk with US, or host someone who will wage war against US, you will get the same treatment.

So what did you -- meaning those who criticize US -- gain from the Taliban 'winning' against US in Afghanistan? Nothing but a future migraine that is going to far worse than what we went through the last 17 yrs. Enjoy.

 

[Khanate]

News for you...The average American DO NOT care if we 'lost' in Afghanistan. We know the country is lost to a bunch of backward minded savages taking Afghanistan and the people to nowhere. You think the average Americans at the bar or coffee house are going to break down in tears if US military withdraw tomorrow and leave Afghanistan to the Taliban? No, we will toss our hands and say 'We tried', and let the world be known that if you fokk with US, or host someone who will wage war against US, you will get the same treatment.

You are right.

No one gives Afghanistan a second thought anywhere in the world.

So what did you -- meaning those who criticize US -- gain from the Taliban 'winning' against US in Afghanistan?

Pakistan has cooperated with US on Afghanistan in the past. The issue this time around is Washington's Afghanistan policy which gives India a foothold. Here is why that is a problem:

A cursory look at India's policies towards Afghanistan during the Cold War and its objectives now show an extraordinary continuity in strategy and tactics. Briefly, from the end of the Raj in the late 1940s to the breakup of the Soviet Union in 1989, New Delhi was hand in glove with Moscow to orchestrate Kabul's 'Pakhtoonistan' bogey, encourage Afghanistan's 'irredentist' claims on Pakistan territory and foment ethnic tendencies in its north-western province to threaten the territorial solidarity of an American ally. Those were pre-terrorism days, and Kabul had no complaints of the 'safe haven' kind we hear from it today. Yet New Delhi, egged on by Moscow, relentlessly pursued policies which sought to use Afghanistan as a tool to destabilise Pakistan and keep the two countries involved in a state of perpetual confrontation.

India's sole interest in Afghanistan is to ensure a country trapped in the quicksand of war, with pliable governments repeating anti-Pakistan rhetoric and exporting political instability and millions of refugees to its eastern neighbour, besides providing safe havens to terrorists who kill 132 Pakistani children.

Source: American blood (Dawn)​

Nothing but a future migraine that is going to far worse than what we went through the last 17 yrs. Enjoy.

Speaking from 17 yrs of experience.