tipu sultan ancestors were pakistani

[Nilgiri]

They could be excused, except that these damn jokers are effing serious in their delusions being forced on everyone else!

Hey thats what a political boundary is for...enforced by steel and lead...they are the manifestation of the limit of the tribe's final (hard) reach on whatever self delusions and fantasies it perpetuates for whatever purpose basically. It's a final check valve that exists so this world does have enough variance to let different civilisational/political combinations arise and blossom, atrophy and then blossom again (in whatever way).

Tribe internal affairs, I leave to the tribe to sort out .... I empathise, even sympathise with lot of good (as I perceive) parts of various tribes...but ultimately each tribe (that I am not present or have connection to for my individual identity and sustenance) has to sort out its narratives (esp raison d'etre) and related issues itself.

No one outside it has any larger moral mandate to intervene for domestic stuff (which in relevant time frame is sustained by quite indomitable forces of free thought and free conscience in the end)...the total summation of some issue by all the relevant forces concerning it within a tribe...is reflective of its constituents in the end. That is all....because history tells us such intervention requires much more destruction and scarring over time....I'd rather have peace and let people believe what they want to.

This is why I am against any kind of globalism BTW....because it strips away the right for each society/polity to choose its own destiny and what to believe in etc.. Everyone can make their arguments best they can, in the end each tribe chooses which are best for it.... by how much responsibility it decides to shoulder on itself on various priorities and ideals of those arguments. Initiation of violence on another for what they think and say...means you have lost the argument...then I suppose its time to let fate choose who "wins".

 

[Hamza913]

you have greats from the land which is now Pakistan but alas they are misfit in your relegious paradigm

We have plenty of Muslim heroes from Pakistan.

Abdali Afghanistan

He was Pashtun, and Pakistan has the world's largest number of Pashtuns.

Ghauri Afghanistan

His family are disputed as either being Pashtun or assimilating into the Pashtun ethnicity. Either way, still related to Pashtuns.

Tipu Sultan Karnatka

His family originally came from the Punjab, as has been discussed. And as said before, Pakistan was made as a nation for the Muslims of British India, so obviously we'll appreciate the history of Muslims from what was British India.

Nadir Shah Iran

Lmao nobody views him as their hero.

Anyway, I thought you said Pakistan only came into being in 1947? If that's the case, what's the problem with us taking heroes from other places on the basis of them being Muslim just like us since as per you we have no history?

 

[Joe Shearer]

Then don't bother barking in the first place.

I said my say. You planning to do anything about it, or just passing the time of day?

Do you?

Yes. At least more than what you put down. Sindhu, and Hindu, were the names of the river. When it came to the country, it was Hind. The Greeks pronounced it 'ind, and that's how the name became Indika.

 

[Hamza913]

Sindhu, and Hindu, were the names of the river. When it came to the country, it was Hind.

And Hind itself came from the river, Hindu. So much for knowing more than me.

 

[Pakistani E]

I think people are running scared of this thread. Too many Serbians (not you, but how are they to know?).

To be honest, I didn't really address the OP myself, but went in to defensive mode against some of the troll posts.

Not much worthwhile being discussed here. Just the same old stuff, recycled. I'll show myself out, it's late.

 

[Crixus]

Now that’s what I am pointing in whole thread I can admire Rajaraja chola but cant say he has geography roots from my area , I can admire Ahom kings of Assam but can’t say they have roots from my area you can admire any rulers but pulling them geographical to your location is weird way of claiming your right ..... hope you get what I am saying you can admire Ayubi but can’t say he has roots in Pakistan ......

Tell me one thing. You guys consider yourself part of a Hindu civilization, do you guys not claim and/or are proud of its achievements/rulers/empires?

Why should Muslims not do the same? Or have you, like some other Indians, set up your own standards of measuring certain things?

 

[Hamza913]

when the foundation of a country is based on specific type of hate

Not hate, just the facts. Muslims and Hindus from what used to be British India have rarely ever gotten along and are to this day very different to one another.

Pakistan is just the by-product of this.

 

[VCheng]

Hey thats what a political boundary is for...enforced by steel and lead...they are the manifestation of the limit of the tribe's final (hard) reach on whatever self delusions and fantasies it perpetuates for whatever purpose basically. It's a final check valve that exists so this world does have enough variance to let different civilisational/political combinations arise and blossom, atrophy and then blossom again (in whatever way).

Tribe internal affairs, I leave to the tribe to sort out .... I empathise, even sympathise with lot of good (as I perceive) parts of various tribes...but ultimately each tribe (that I am not present or have connection to for my individual identity and sustenance) has to sort out its narratives (esp raison d'etre) and related issues itself.

No one outside it has any larger moral mandate to intervene for domestic stuff (which in relevant time frame is sustained by quite indomitable forces of free thought and free conscience in the end)...the total summation of some issue by all the relevant forces concerning it within a tribe...is reflective of its constituents in the end. That is all....because history tells us such intervention requires much more destruction and scarring over time....I'd rather have peace and let people believe what they want to.

This is why I am against any kind of globalism BTW....because it strips away the right for each society/polity to choose its own destiny and what to believe in etc.. Everyone can make their arguments best they can, in the end each tribe chooses which are best for it.... by how much responsibility it decides to shoulder on itself on various priorities and ideals of those arguments. Initiation of violence on another for what they think and say...means you have lost the argument...then I suppose its time to let fate choose who "wins".

That would work only as long as political boundaries can be enforced, but remember that they are always drawn and redrawn according to the dictates of international geopolitics. If Churchill's sneeze matters, then what faith to put in such boundaries?

 

[Hamza913]

. hope you get what I am saying you can admire Ayubi but can’t say he has roots in Pakistan

Nobody ever does such a thing. We know Ghauri came from Ghor, we know Ghaznavi came from Ghazni, we know Qasim came from Arabia, etc.

We never even said Tipu came from the Punjab. We simply pointed out that his family has roots there, just like others such as Abu Fazl had their roots in Sindh (and Yemen, if you believe his claim of Arab origin).

 

[VCheng]

Yes. At least more than what you put down. Sindhu, and Hindu, were the names of the river. When it came to the country, it was Hind. The Greeks pronounced it 'ind, and that's how the name became Indika.

Let us get one definition clearly put across. India is the land mass in South Asia between the Indus on the west, and the Irrawaddy to the east, and the Himalayas to the north, as its own sub-continent.

There, I said it.

 

[Nilgiri]

but remember that they are always drawn and redrawn according to the dictates of international geopolitics.

These are (mostly) initiations of force/violence I would argue...and then that goes to another realm with escalation ladders and all the fun, exciting, "dynamic" stuff ppl in this forum revel in cheering on (nothing gets the emotional blood pumping quite so much among the riffraff in general...like "Dulce et Decorum est pro patria Mori")....compared to my bigger (boring to most riffraff) interest governing statics/core psyche/existence etc.

Thus I'm just mostly talking when things are relatively stable rather than in flux as far as these boundaries go.

 

[VCheng]

These are (mostly) initiations of force/violence I would argue...and then that goes to another realm with escalation ladders and all the fun, exciting, "dynamic" stuff ppl in this forum revel in cheering on (nothing gets the emotional blood pumping quite so much among the riffraff in general...like "Dulce et Decorum est pro patria Mori")....compared to my bigger (boring to most riffraff) interest governing statics/core psyche/existence etc.

Thus I'm just mostly talking when things are relatively stable rather than in flux as far as these boundaries go.

As you say, stability of such borders is only relative.

 

[Crixus]

1971 proved that even Muslims of South Asia can’t live together don’t you think the premise of 47 division proved null in 71 just in less then 25 years

Not hate, just the facts. Muslims and Hindus from what used to be British India have rarely ever gotten along and are to this day very different to one another.

Pakistan is just the by-product of this.

 

[VCheng]

1971 proved that even Muslims of South Asia can’t live together don’t you think the premise of 47 division proved null in 71 just in less then 25 years

Let us keep in mind the fact there there are more Muslims in India and Bangladesh than there are in Pakistan.

 

[Dalai Lama]

Stop being so insecure about your history + identity and focus on building your country. The cities of Mysore & Bangalore are thriving and part of the reason is that we aren't seeking some false sense of glory from our past.

This is ridiculous. Punjabis aren't some martial race either, 70+ years after independence and you're still buying into & prepetuating that colonial British crap.