Saudi Arabia, Qatar may be playing dangerous game over Syria rebels

Discussion in 'Middle East & Africa' started by kalu_miah, Oct 27, 2013.

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  1. Doritos11
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    Doritos11 SENIOR MEMBER

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    It’s their trademark and al qaeda groups have done it before in Istanbul, why not now ?

    Full of non Syrians such forums and chatrooms, also it means nothing, it’s just a forum not the ones fighting.

    Theres a difference between a beard and a 6 months beard never shaved left for ideology, go through an airport the way jihadists look..

    They have attacked Amman and Istanbul earlier with bombs, they have done it in Riyadh, this is the ideology they follow this isn’t among a few. There is no such thing as nationality for them, USA/Israel are their enemy and so is everyone that deals with them ( Turkey, Jordan all of GCC ), Iraq/Iran are Rafidi majoos for them. Who isn’t their enemy and who have they not attacked earlier ? There is a vid I posted earlier about Saudis joining the ranks of ISIS that have been imprisoned in Saudi Arabia earlier, they were clearly against the Saudi regime from what they said.

    Yes they have been using that since the beginning, but in the beginning the FSA was the real player and effective, however now this is pretty much becoming reality, anti Assad people have the same opinions.

    When these people came to Iraq during the 2003 invasion of Iraq to fight the Americans they were first welcomed and seen as heroes due to their help in the resistance, but they came for their own interests and made use of the instability, the same in Syria. The Anbaris sided with the Americans against them.

    These do recognize borders from what I have seen, they will stand down, the jihadists know no such thing.

    That’s what Turkey/Saudi Arabia/Qatar were hoping for, a US attack to remove Bashar and deal with the jihadists. But they won’t.
  2. al-Hasani
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    al-Hasani ELITE MEMBER

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    Just like the Child-Murderer and his regime were behind hundreds of suicide bombings/car bombings inside Iraq and to a lesser degree in Lebanon. Just like they were behind car bombings inside Syria during the civil war and claimed that it was the work of Al-Qaeda or the Syrian opposition at the beginning of the conflict where ISIS or Al-Nusra did not even exist.

    Back to my point. There is no proof of this. You say it is the work of them but you have no proof. At the other hand the world know that the Child-Murderer was behind attacks on Turkish soil that killed civilian Turks not once but a few times.

    Eh, no. Those are by far mostly Syrians. The people who upload videos of crimes inside Syria are local Syrians and they upload it on that forum and others.

    Eh, and how many of them are there in Syria? Not more than 2000. Just watch the videos. Besides it does not matter what kind of beard they have, LOL. Does not make their cause less or more righteous for that matter. As I said they could all be bald and shaven for all I care.

    The attack in Istanbul is a few years old. Done by a tiny minority of those people I told you about that deem every republic, monarchy as traitors of Islam, their people etc. They are a tiny minority.

    In Amman that was the work of Iraqis allied to Al-Zarqawi.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Amman_bombings

    Riyadh was the same people I am talking about. Al-Qaeda who are against monarchies, republics and every Muslim leader since they deem them traitors.

    In short who cares about those minority groups? Until now they have not been behind anything outside their borders while the Syrian conflict has lasted.

    But ok, what is your solution then? Keep shaking hands with the Child-Murderer and keep letting him kill thousands of Syrians who mostly happen to be Syrian Sunni Arabs? What a coincidence. Let him bomb ancient Arab treasures and World Unesco Heritage Sites such as the old town of Aleppo, Umayyad Mosque, the Mosque of Khalid ibn Walid (ra) and other such things.

    I agree with you that ISIS and partially Al-Nusra (more moderate) are dangerous to a certain extent. But so are the Shia Militias, Al-Assad and many others. I still struggle to see how their minority presence can close the revolution and just keep Al-Assad in power. I really don't understand that logic.

    I look at facts and what I see until now is FSA still being the by far biggest Syrian opposition group not the opinions of forum members with all due respect.

    They are "Jihadists" as well. Just from another sect. They only "recognize borders" because they know that there are only 4 majority Shia countries in the world 2 of them nearly 50/50 (Iraq and Bahrain) so of course they can dream about their Shia Islamic rule. Unlike the other side who potentially could unite the Sunni world although that is also a far-fetched dream. At least not under their guidance by any means.

    So that is why another solution has to be found but that solution will not be a solution that includes Al-Assad and him killing more Syrians. Forget about that. This is not a conflict one can backtrack from. Too much blood and money has been spilt. No matter what happens then all those countries might see ISIS/Nusra and those small groups as enemies (they probably already do) but that will not mean that they will abandon the cause of the Syrians and just say : "Well you know what let us just allow Al-Assad to rule for a few more decades while he kills and oppresses people. We just forget everything about his crimes and the involvement of his allies."

    I say forget about that.
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2013
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  3. Doritos11
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    Doritos11 SENIOR MEMBER

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    Syrian intelligence operatus was involved in Iraqi insurgency, I know about their part. The suicide bombs in civillian areas is the work of Jihadists, independent Salafi Ibn Taymiyya following Jihadists, they might have been funded by Qatar & independent rich sheikhs in the GCC, can’t prove it but using my brains like you do knowing Iran supports the Houthis.

    There are many video’s of jihadists taping their testimony before doing their suicide bombing, it’s solid evidence. Shias don’t use suicide bombings, this isn’t their way neither beheadings, it ofcourse happens from them on a smaller scale. It’s jihadists, if you doubt that then doubt Iran’s support for Houthis.

    Unproven, many are foreigners and they don’t have nationalities they don’t recognize it.

    Worrying about UNESCO heritage sights, ISIS/Nusra will destroy all non Sunni heritage sights in Syria if they can.

    Then your disagreeing with Kalu Miah as well, SAA defectors to FSA are not in line with the jihadists, whom are have joined the jihadists, who aren’t have either left the whole war or defected back to SAA, the ones still in FSA are if I guess in Southern Syria near the Jordanian border and some near the Turkish border. Other then that these guys are finished, jihadists took the lead of the opposition.

    The Shia jihadists are a danger as well, they will not be accepted like the Sunni jihadists but if people start supporting the jihadists then why would the Shia not intervene as they can’t accept waiting for bombs.

    Now some on PDF are clearly showing how much fucks they actually give about Syria, support jihadists and burn Syria all to stop "The Iranian empire" which doesn’t even exist.
    Removing Assad isn’t impossible, supporting the jihadists to do so is being desperate, supporting jihadists also will not remove Assad. Shia fighters will flow into Syria, Lebanese, Iraqi, Iranian will be forced to go countering it. So it won’t help. US won’t go in, unless you guys want to go in little changes.

    Any help to the opposition is out of option now for the west, they won’t support al qaeda and they know the FSA is finished, Qatar and Saudi Arabia do it until the neighbors Turkey and Jordan see the effects of it. Many here support them jihadists, they actually fkd this revolution up, if not for them the west would have no problem helping the FSA with anything.
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  4. Doritos11
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    Doritos11 SENIOR MEMBER

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    @al-Hasani

    About the jihadists, they don’t number a few thousands, they are majority of the opposition. There are more organizations then just ISIS and Nusra.

    Sources say the number of "Islamic" jihadists in Syria are over 60.000. They outnumber the collapsed FSA.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahfad_al-Rasul_Brigade
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Islamic_Front
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Liberation_Front
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Nusra_Front
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaish_al-Muhajireen_wal-Ansar
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2013
  5. ResurgentIran
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    ResurgentIran SENIOR MEMBER

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    Honestly the main "hope" that is left, is that Jordan and Turkey realises the grave national security threat AQ/Nusrah/ISIS pose, and close their borders (at least make greater effort to guard it).
    I just dont see Saudi Arabia coming to its senses. What we all need to realise with Saudi Arabia, is that they are so apoplectic about Assad government staying in power, that they are willing to enflame the entire region with sectarian extremism.
    Quite frankly it does not behave like a rational state actor here.
  6. al-Hasani
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    al-Hasani ELITE MEMBER

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    LOL. A Syria or region with or without Al Qaeda, Al-Nusra and ISIS (and all the Shia terrorist groups and militias that your Mullah's support btw) will not change the fact that the Child-Murderer that you have as a avatar has no legitimacy, nor his ideology, nor his little sect he belongs to. Long gone are the days where his little family firm can oppress and dictate everything that happens inside Syria and make alliances with countries that most Syrian Sunni Arabs who nearly form 80% of the population dislike.

    It is funny that this comes from an Iranian knowing that his regime are supporting terrorism across the world. Iranian agents/terrorist have been caught across the world in recent times. In Nigeria, Kenya, several Arab countries etc. All backed by your Mullah's and working for them.

    The few hundred Saudi Arabians who go to fight inside Syria are not sent their by the Saudi government but they go there by their free wills. Traveling to countries like Syria and Iraq is not even allowed in the first place for any Saudi Arabian citizen. Same with Afghanistan. So what are you talking about? The Saudi Arabian Grand Mufti has said that "jihad" inside Syria is not allowed. The Saudi Arabian-Iraqi border has been closed for ages for example. The Saudi Arabian government has partially built a huge fence along the Saudi Arabian-Iraqi border. Not the Iraqi state.

    Al-Qaeda and all those groups biggest enemy is the Al-Saud family and Saudi Arabian government whom they deem as traitors for having good relations with non-Muslims and especially USA and because KSA is the most important Muslim land - obviously Makkah and Madinah. Read about their manifesto or recordings. Or just use Google. Meanwhile certain Al-Qaeda members and their families enjoy refugee in Iran. Hmm.

    You can even find videos of a few Saudis inside Syria who tell about their hatred for the House of Saud.

    The only difference is that we defeated all those people ages ago after they made several terror attacks. Now most have escaped to Yemen or Iraq. We are talking about individuals that do not number more than 300 people AT MOST. Besides Saudi Arabian intelligence service is very good.

    The only non-rational actors are your country and Russia who somehow think that the Child-Murderer still has legitimacy after killing THOUSANDS of Syrian children and that the majority of the Syrian people will accept his rule or his neighbors, the Arab world or Sunni world.

    You are just prolonging a lost cause. You even admitted that Syria will never be the same again. You are right. No room for Al-Assad and his likes in the new Syria.
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2013
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  7. al-Hasani
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    al-Hasani ELITE MEMBER

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    That is not correct Doritos. I don't know all those groups but according to Wikipedia and the links you posted then if you click at many of the groups then their opponents are the Child-Murderer army and militias AND ISIS. Wikipedia says so. Under "allies and oppponents". For example the first group in the links you posted.

    Besides a so-called number of 60.000 "hardcore jihadists" those that I described that hate each and every Muslim country and government is simply not correct. They don't number more than 5.000 AT MOST. FSA and groups allied to it (not hardcore "jihadists") still outnumber any other Syrian opposition groups by large. FSA alone still has close to 100.000 members. Many of whom are former Al-Assad soldiers. I highly doubt that more than 2% of them joined all those hardcore "Jihadist" groups.

    Also we can argue the same about Al-Assad and his people. Most are nearly also foreigners now. Dozens of Shia militias (many foreign) with thousand of members. HizbAlShaitan even had to help them etc.

    We hear about Russian/Christian extremist volunteers etc. We saw the pictures of that Ruskie that was caught and brought to justice not long ago in the "Syrian cvil war" thread.
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  8. ResurgentIran
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    ResurgentIran SENIOR MEMBER

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    Your mindset will only keep this conflict going, and more Syrian people will die.
    You dont make peace with your friends. You make peace with your enemies. That is what conflict resolution is about.
  9. al-Hasani
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    al-Hasani ELITE MEMBER

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    There is no negotiation with Child-Murderers, dictators, tyrants and such people. You don't negotiate with people like that. The Child-Murderer has the same mindset. His propaganda machine has been calling FSA for Al-Qaeda since it was founded 2.5 years ago and still does to this day. He is not willing to negotiate either.

    The only solution is him stepping down and then we can talk about a peace process. That is only logical when he has lost all his legitimacy.
    But not before the culprits are brought to justice.
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  10. Doritos11
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    Doritos11 SENIOR MEMBER

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    Yes, but now that has become reality. You need to watch many videos, the SNC/FSA organization has little influence, their HQ is still in Turkey/Doha. Read through this topic from page 1. I will respond to the other part later.
  11. ResurgentIran
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    ResurgentIran SENIOR MEMBER

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    Your notion that there must be only one winner, is too ideological and very bad for Syrians. It means conflict will go on til one of the sides are completely defeated.
    And as this is an impossibility, the war will rage on for eternity. In 20 years you can come back and say the usual stuff that "you dont negotiate with people like that..."
    As I said, you negotiate and make peace with your enemies. Otherwise what is the meaning of negotiations?

    But thanks for proving the irrationality. You are saying that to even ENTER peace-talks and negotiaions you first demand not only pre-conditions but pre-results (Assad stepping down). In other words, unless you give me everything I want beforehand, I wont even begin to talk and negotiate.
    This is so illogical. May House of Saud and all advocaters of this foolish and outright insane policy snap out of their irrational mindset, so less Syrians will die.
  12. al-Hasani
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    al-Hasani ELITE MEMBER

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    How has this become the reality when most of the Syrian opposition is still the biggest and number 100.000 people? Aside from all the groups allied with SNC/FSA or groups of a similar mindset?
    Which hardcore jihadist groups aside from Al Nusra and ISIS are present in Syria. 1, 2? There was that Chechen brigade led by that Chechen.

    Since when did Qatar support the SNC? Saudi Arabia and Turkey has been the biggest backers. Qatar were the ones supporting Al-Nusra that even made them this strong and started the Al-Nusra/FSA divide.

    Yes, I agree with FSA losing some of its influence but you can say the same about SA. Why are there so many Shia militias then? And why are they the most successful ones? Where did HizbAlShaitan come from?
    I thought that Shias (Twelvers) thought about Alawis as Pagans. At least the Iranian Mullahs did until recently that is (Syrian civil war).
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  13. al-Hasani
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    al-Hasani ELITE MEMBER

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    I am not talking about winners here. Al-Assad staying in power as you and your friends wish for is a no-win situation for any group in Syria. At the other hand if the majority of Syrians who don't support him, want reforms, new ruler, justice, more rights etc. had more to say a solution could be quickly found.

    For me the Alawis can do what they want. All I ask for is the ones guilty of killing children, fellow Muslims and Arabs to be brought to justice. You can do the same with the Syrian opposition for all I care.

    I have always supported FSA and made this clear on this forum since January where I joined. I still believe that they have a rightful cause and just because some elements (on both sides try to meddle) it does not make their cause less righteous, just, understandable etc.

    Al-Assad stepping down is just one thing. You really think that all his worshippers, Nusayris, hardcore fellow Ba'athists that have not known a Syria without Ba'athism will suddenly give up/leave their ideology just because their figurehead dies? Do you think that Al-Nusra will stop fighting or FSA if their heads will get killed? Yes, you should be able to know the answer.

    Even the UN have called Al-Assad nothing more than a mass-criminal and war criminal that must be brought to justice. UN. Not Saudi Arabia, not Qatar, not Turkey not Jordan. But the leader of UN. A South Korean with no ties to the Middle East let alone a Muslim. Or most of the world powers who also have the exact same opinion.

    LOL. House of Saud are doing the righteous thing. They support the Syrian people and their fight against a Child-Murdering mass-murderer, dictator, tyrant and minority sect member inside Syria all while your country and its Mullah's are supporting a lost cause believing that he has any legitimacy left contrary to the world community. And the House of Saud are the evil ones. OK.
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  14. Doritos11
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    Doritos11 SENIOR MEMBER

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    Don’t look at the wikipedia pages, look at recent Syria video’s. All I see is Islamic flags, the 3 start FSA flag is barely being used anymore, take a look yourself, how often do you hear them speak about the FSA in Arabic Syria, you hear Jaish al Islami and such.
    The Iraq-Syria borders were/are controlled by Jihadists not FSA, they are leading the fight, FSA is not 100.000 anymore, that’s history.

    This cannot be proven by 1 article or vid as people would write it off as Assad propaganda, though it’s quite known now.
  15. Doritos11
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    Doritos11 SENIOR MEMBER

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    They aren’t, they are doing something for selfish means forgetting the effects it will have on neighbors. Jihadists hijacked their plan and it’s a mess now, Qatar & Saudi Arabia are fueling it, even if you win defeating Assad you still lose as the ones that defeated him will come after you, Jordan & Turkey. All the conventional firepower will be close to useless.