Pakistan's slice of the moon

[Indus Pakistan]

Well you’re doing the Pakistani people a disservice then by allowing such thoughts go unchecked. Nationalism is great and all, but your man

He is ballast against all the ummah leeches. Since there is wave of them every man, even if at times OTT is needed as riposte but that does not mean I have to agree with him on every score.

Out of curiosity, Do you consider Romanians and other eastern europeans "White"?

Most are white but few are brown gypsies. But leaving that there is another great example. I have been exposed to loads of Poles. Men and women. More women but that is another story. They are mostly as blonde, as white, as tall as is possible. They have huge fertile land in centre of Europe. Yet despite being next door to Germany they have achieved nothing. Millions of them are rolling about and they are no differant from third world migrants other that UK has given them legal privilages because they are white. On the other hand Italians are darker Europeans yet their contribution is far greater. Many parts of Eastern Europe are a dump and only thing floating them is proximity to Western Europe or being doled out by EU.

 

[BringHarmony]

And I want to add I am not one bit impressed with this moon shot. This is just India trying to polish it's international image and at the same time giving bigger chests for all the poor masses inside India. A useless goodwill effort. Other than that it has no other import.

Okay. Lets take few nations around India that do not have a space program:
1. Nepal
2. Bangladesh
3. Sri Lanka
4. Bhutan
5. Pakistan

All of them should be far far ahead of India in taking care of their poors, right?

The upshot is : Is there a causal relationship between spending on technology and science and NOT being able to reduce poverty?

 

[Indus Pakistan]

The upshot is : Is there a causal relationship between spending on technology and science and NOT being able to reduce poverty?

Your question is too cut and dry. This is not about spending money on STEM but about dances intended to show "look how big my penis is".

And by the way Sri Lanka has lowest poverty rate in SA.

 

[BringHarmony]

Your question is too cut and dry. This is not about spending money on STEM but about dances intended to show "look how big my penis is".

And whats so wrong with that? Don't Chinese do it all the time? Don't Americans do it all the time? Mind you, dollar by dollar China is not even half way as much productive as USA in terms of GDP per capita.

And by the way Sri Lanka has lowest poverty rate in SA.

Is it low-enough? I still see hell lot of Sri-Lankans coming in Canada to escape poverty.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

India
Country Indicators
Poverty headcount ratio at $1.90 a day (2011 PPP) (% of population)
31.1% 2009 21.2% 2011
Population, total (millions)
1,324.2 2016 1,339.2 2017
GNI per capita, Atlas method (current US$)
$1,830 2017 $2,020 2018
GDP growth (annual %)
7.2% 2017 7% 2018

Pakistan
Country Indicators
Poverty headcount ratio at $1.90 a day (2011 PPP) (% of population)
6.1% 2013 3.9% 2015
Shared Prosperity: Annualized growth in per capita real survey mean consumption or income (%), circa 2010 - 2015
2.7% bottom 40% 4.3% total
Population, total (millions)
193.2 2016 197.0 2017
GNI per capita, Atlas method (current US$)
$1,500 2017 $1,580 2018
GDP growth (annual %)
5.7% 2017 5.4% 2018

Is it low-enough?

That is subjective. But if India is referance then "yes". By the way there are lot of Germans rolling about in USA, lots of Latvians, Poles in UK. What do I surmise?

Don't Chinese do it all the time?

Are you really comparing Chinese poverty to India now. Talk of Pak4Ever being over the top.

Source : http://povertydata.worldbank.org/poverty/country/PAK

 

[BringHarmony]

Are you really comparing Chinese poverty to India now. Talk of Pak4Ever being over the top.

Source : http://povertydata.worldbank.org/poverty/country/PAK

I was not talking about poverty. I was talking about technological achievements. Read their global times paper sometimes. They yell that they are world leaders in AI. Most of the real research on modern deep learning AI actually happened in University of Toronto.
If it is okay for China to yell about its any of so called "Achievements". If it is okay for US to yell about it, why should any other nation not do the same?

 

[Indus Pakistan]

If it is okay for China to yell about its any of so called "Achievements". If it is okay for US to yell about it, why should any other nation not do the same?

Okay.

 

[911]

He spent most of the time ridiculing Hinduism and yet couldn't explain why Pakistan's space program crumbled. No blame on Islamists as expected since he has to save his life. But he missed the main reason behind its failure: No more American support. Pakistani space station was not fully indigenous to begin with. It was propped up by the Americans.

And I want to add I am not one bit impressed with this moon shot. This is just India trying to polish it's international image and at the same time giving bigger chests for all the poor masses inside India. A useless goodwill effort. Other than that it has no other import.

You can't possibly equate the poverty in magnitude or intensity in India with USSR or USA. My point is the primary driver behind this moonshot was 'show'. There is no tangible benefit. It's just to say 'we are in same category with USA, Russia, China".

Decades later when asteroid mining for precious metals becomes reality, these same countries will have the most control over those resources.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Decades later when asteroid mining for precious metals becomes reality, these same countries will have the most control over those resources.

Maybe. Time will tell.

 

[Peshwa]

Your question is too cut and dry. This is not about spending money on STEM but about dances intended to show "look how big my penis is".

And by the way Sri Lanka has lowest poverty rate in SA.

I don’t understand this attitude.
Are you suggesting that a moon mission is not a massive learning experience for India/Indians? Do you not think it will inspire young Indians to take a keen interest in astronomy and related sciences due to the “pride” factor?
Don’t scores of Pakistanis take pride in the achievement of their ancestors and heroes to walk down the same path one day?
And why shouldn’t Indians or Pakistanis try to run shoulder to shoulder with those nations that have achieved a milestone?
Is it because you think a moon landing is easy?

This is a matter of pride.

But yes, I agree with you in that it should not be used as a means to look down upon other nations or its people because of it.
I feel Your suspicion of the OPs intent to post as a way to “rub” this on the nose of the Pakistanis has a lot to do with this than otherwise.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

@911 Honestly I don't think it's Islam specifically that holds Pakistan back. It is for lack of better term desi mind whether it's dressed as Islam or Hindu. The more this is purged the more progress you will see. India was fortunate in having a athiest in Nehru who was free from this desi mind and managed to lay some foundations of progress. In Pakistan we we got screwed when Jinnah died. Ever since our future has been heading back to the past.

And PH does mention this.

 

[911]

@911 Honestly I don't think it's Islam specifically that holds Pakistan back. It is for lack of better term desi mind whether it's dressed as Islam or Hindu. The more this is purged the more progress you will see. India was fortunate in having a athiest in Nehru who was free from this desi mind and managed to lay some foundations of progress. In Pakistan we we got screwed when Jinnah died. Ever since our future has been heading back to the past.

And PH does mention this.

Hinduism and Islam have some fundamental differences, but its not the topic of debate, so I will not go there. No one knows what would have happened in India. But I completely agree with you that Islam is not the reason why Pakistani Space program failed. I already mentioned the reason in my previous post.

 

[BringHarmony]

Folks I see two rather interesting "thoughts" in this thread.

1. Only "Whites" and "East Asians" can do "achievement".
I am still not clear on "Whites", "East Asians" and "achievements". From the looks of it : "White" is not sufficient condition for being doing "achievement". I wonder if it is a necessary condition, though i doubt it is. I am more and more inclined to consider it is someone's attempt to refuse to acknowledge an a work by hand-waving it as "Not Indigenous" or "Copied" without any effort to actually analyze the said achievement.

2. Science and technology expense in space research should take a backseat until poverty is "reduced"?
Humans have done "science" for very very long time. And a hell lot of it had no apparent use. Even "west" or "white" --as you folks call us-- became scientific first and prosperous later. I don't know where this defeatists mentality comes in the posters here, but no, you won't be able to move forward by literally putting the cart in front of horse. Yes, public money put into scientific research should be budgeted but simply feeding a billion mouths today will not give you an shot at feeding 10 billion mouths tomorrow. It never happens that way. People have to struggle and figure out ways to feed themselves and often research done 10-50 years back provides the gotchas on how to do that. Oh before someone asks : science is global, technology? Not THAT global. A lot of time, you have to re-invent technology to make it work for you. Why? Because no one else will do it for you, atleast not cheaply.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

You still haven’t answered my question, who gets the credit for the algorithm, google or you?

Google only provided you the environment that fosters R&D, it didn’t come up with the concept of algorithm, nor other important fundamentals that went into the concept of writing algorithms.
It is the individual that uses his capacity to innovate based on previous research done in the field to create something new.
So your concept that Indians didn’t “invent” many of the things as mentioned by @Naman Mathur because the preceding technology or the company they work for not being Indian has nothing to do with the individual achievement of those people.
We as Indians can take pride in another Indian taking the name of his nation of birth or ethnicity forward.
It’s not very different than say Amir Khan who you claim of being Pakistani even though his nationality is not...why do you as a Pakistani feel proud of his achievements then?
His success is purely a brutish creation, from the training to the funding to the marketing.

Semantics and Conjectures aside. I understand some of your points. Let's be brutally honest though; Which people's invented the Radio, Cars, Aeroplanes, Jets, Fighter Jets, Submarines, the Telephone, Mobile phones, the internet, modern communications, Tanks etc?

Excluding East Asians, if all other Non-Whites were even remotely a capable people, you wouldn't have indians, Pakistanis, Arabs, South Americans and Blacks buying advanced weapons systems from the West or Russia. They would make it themselves. Why can't they? Can any of those above mentioned people's invent something that the Whites would buy?

 

[BringHarmony]

Why can't they? Can any of those above mentioned people's invent something that the Whites would buy?

There are too many of them but I will point out one that I remember: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otis_Boykin
The guy invented artificial pacemaker. He was "Black".

PS : Invention and Product are not same. You buy products and usually not inventions.