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Pakistan's acquisition of the U-214

Well that is some good information but its not till sep 27th which is far!!! second can some one shed some light on this submarine

The Type 214 is the export version of the latest in German submarine technology. It utilizes hydrogen fuel cell propulsion while submerged which gives it a submerged without snorkeling endurance of three weeks! It is ultra quiet and will greatly increase Pakistan's naval offensive potential.

Information link: Type 214 Submarine.

 
As far as I have heard the submarine deal did come up for discussion. Though it is surprising that COAS discussed it.

He is overall military head so i think it is important for him to discuss the submarine issues...shows that the guy really cares for other branches too and that is the way to do it since we need more sinews in our naval arm no doubt about it.
 
will some one tell me, for which purpose, our chief if there , any detail please.
 
The Type 214 is the export version of the latest in German submarine technology. It utilizes hydrogen fuel cell propulsion while submerged which gives it a submerged without snorkeling endurance of three weeks! It is ultra quiet and will greatly increase Pakistan's naval offensive potential.

Information link: Type 214 Submarine.
Thanks for the Information dude
 
There are soon elections of the CDU, SPD and I am sure they'll bring arguments for and against Pakistan to win those election though the domestic politics counts much much more then. Nothing is sure but Germans are well-known for being kind and hard-working so they will certainly sell those submarines to Pakistan as they got a pro-Pakistan stance.
Germany won't sell these sub's because they are kind, but because it is one of the biggest arms selling countries. And the sale of subs won't be an issue during the elections, there are way bigger points at the moment. The only one who bring up this issue are the opposition and the media sometimes, but it is likely that the companies friendly CDU will win, so the sale won't be a big problem.
What could be a problem is providing ToT, Germany don't offer it so freely as France and India still thinks about U214 but selling with ToT would imo kill a possible deal with India.
 
Well don't worry guys, French are waiting in line with their Scorpene. They already offered Pak without any strings attached. And Germans knows very well and big rivals of each other. German won't let French take over this deal. French always try to let down German in every field. Matter of national pride amongst two nation.
If I'm not wrong France offered new Marlin class and not Scorpene and you I don't think you have an Idea about Germany and France relation. The companies are selling arms in the same field, what makes them to competitors in economic reasons, but the countries are not rivals! In fact they are the biggest partners on highest level in Europe and are working together in many fields. So national pride to beat the other has nothing to do with this!
 
i do not totlally agree with you mr. sancho

u want to know the difference...for u i will tell by an example

u see coconut what is the differnce between the outer shell and the inner shell

french are easy to crack not the germans...for you i remind of the nazi days
 
They may not be the best partners, but they (among a few others) certainly make the best hardware.
 
Germany or any other european country are only and only interested in Big $. those who are under impression that Germany is our strategic partner or a good friend then they are just day dreaming..
 
Germany or any other european country are only and only interested in Big $. those who are under impression that Germany is our strategic partner or a good friend then they are just day dreaming..

Hi,

You are less informed as to how much the germans had helped the egyptians and pakistanis over the years---only if the egyptians had taken better counter measure and acted pro-actively in protecting the lives of german scientists from the mossad death squads, the story of german / egyptian / pakistani co-operation would have been at a different pleateau.


It is an absolutely bad practise to say that everybody loves $'s---it makes the relationship cheap---$'s is an evil neccessity---even with our bowl in hand---people take our money and put sanctions on the product---keep our money and keep our product.
 
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Hi,

You are less informed as to how much the germans had helped the egyptians and pakistanis over the years---only if the egyptians had taken better counter measure and acted pro-actively in protecting the lives of german scientists from the mossad death squads, the story of german / egyptian / pakistani co-operation would have been at a different pleateau.


It is an absolutely bad practise to say that everybody loves $'s---it makes the relationship cheap---$'s is an evil neccessity---even with our bowl in hand---people take our money and put sanctions on the product---keep our money and keep our product.

hey if this is true then good for PAKISTAN!
 
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan—The stench of a multimillion dollar scam can be smelled in the Pakistani capital. This time it has to do with the estimated $1.5 to 2 billion deal that the Pakistan Navy has almost finalized with Germany. But it seems there are strong lobbies in Islamabad that want to oblige France and buy French vessels because Paris is willing to pay heavy bribes. To ensure the deal is sealed with France instead of Germany, a junior bureaucrat has been appointed as Pakistan’s ambassador in Paris bypassing the Pakistani foreign office. Reports accuse President Asif Ali Zardari of orchestrating this appointment.


No one would be more disturbed at these developments than the government of Angela Merkel in Germany. Berlin went out on a limp to approve the Pakistani request for the submarines in the face of strong opposition to selling weapons to Pakistan.


India, whose 90% of weapons continue to be aimed at Pakistan while feigning peace and making excuses about threats from China, has launched a quiet diplomatic effort to convince Germany not to sell the vessels to Pakistan.

The deal with Germany is ready to be inked and the Germans await Pakistan to make a formal order for the submarines. But this order is not coming despite the visit by Pakistani Army Chief Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani to Berlin on 18 June. The Defense minister has also visited Germany earlier to discuss the deal.

Seven months ago, the CEO of the company that building the submarines for Pakistan visited Karachi and told The News International that the deal between Germany and Pakistan was “95% done”.

So why is the Pakistani side reluctant now?

On Friday, security analysis service BRASSTACKS issued an alert that said:


“All is set for the new [German] submarines. Almost all hurdles have been removed. But we fail to understand why there is no pressure from the Naval Headquarters (NHQ) on DP MoD [Director of Purchases at the Ministry of Defense] to finalize the contract. Already the Indians are exploiting the situation and pressurizing the Germans to stop the sale. It is not less than a miracle that the Germans are adamant on going ahead with the sale despite the pressures. Pakistan Navy is set to lose this deal due to a lack of will, lack of decision making, and due to other vested interests.”



One reason could be France. The French are lobbying to get Pakistan to cancel the German deal and buy French submarines.


Coincidentally, in 1995, the Pakistan People’s Party was in power when the government bought three French Agosta 90-B submarines. President Zardari was an investment minister then. The incumbent French President Nicolas Sarkozy was also in power at the time as a minister and key aide to then French President Edouard Balladur. Ironically, both were powerful men who operated behind the scenes. And now both of them stand accused of receiving lavish kickbacks from the Agosta deal.


The French media has accused President Zardari of being part of a list of powerful people in both Paris and Islamabad who received kickbacks. The French judges have also accused others besides Mr. Zardari especially within the military of receiving parts of the bribe. On the French side, the bribe money from the deal helped finance the reelection campaign of Mr. Balladur in which Mr. Sarkozy played a key role.

A French judge has even accused some powerful Pakistanis including Mr. Zardari of having something to do with the murder of 11 French engineers in Karachi in May 2002 as a retaliation to the decision of France’s new government to case bribe payments from the 1995 deal.

As recently as Friday, 26 June 2009, The Independent of London published a report titled Bribes and Bombs that mentioned the names of both President Zardari and President Sarkozy as prime suspects among others in receiving bribes for the French submarines. The opening paragraphs of the report said this:

“A political scandal is gathering pace over claims that 11 French submarine engineers were murdered in a bomb attack in Karachi seven years ago to punish France for the non-payment of arms contract "commissions" to senior Pakistani officials. Lawyers for the French victims' families believe the attack, allegedly carried out by Islamist terrorists, was in fact part of a web of financial chicanery and political maneuvering which may yet severely embarrass senior figures, including the French President Nicolas Sarkozy and his Pakistani counterpart Asif Ali Zardari.”

Interestingly, when Mr. Zardari decided to pay a visit to Paris in May, Mr. Sarkozy wasn’t exactly a happy man. The French media highlighted a letter that the families of the 11 engineers sent to the French president showing displeasure at meeting Mr. Zardari. The German news agency, DPA, reported that Mr. Zardari’s decision to visit Paris “has placed the French president in a delicate position.”



The Independent newspaper report published the following list of the key figures in the French submarine bribes scandal. This list is based on the French investigation into the murder of the 11 engineers.

The key figures: 15 years ago and now

Edouard Balladur, 80

THEN Centre-right prime minister in cohabitation with the Socialist president, François Mitterrand. Ran for presidency in 1995 but was knocked out by Chirac in first round.

ROLE It is alleged in documents seized by French police that his campaign – quite possibly without his knowledge – benefited from illegal kickbacks.

NOW Retired.

Jacques Chirac, 76

THEN Mayor of Paris and leader of the centre-right RPR party. Ran for the presidency in 1995 for the third time and won.

ROLE As president, he ordered the cancellation of the Pakistani "commissions", allegedly in pique against M Balladur.

NOW Retired.

Charles Millon, 63

THEN Chirac's defence minister in 1995.

ROLE Admits he cancelled Pakistani commissions on Chirac's orders.

NOW Faded from mainstream politics.

Asif Ali Zardari, 53

THEN Minister in government of his wife, Benazir Bhutto, who was murdered in 2007 after she returned to Pakistan.

ROLE Alleged to have "distributed" part of the commissions paid by France, which were legal under French law.

NOW President of Pakistan.



What compounds suspicions is the decision by the Pakistani government to appoint a civil servant from the District Management Group [a classification within the Pakistani bureaucracy] as the Ambassador of Pakistan to France. This is an unusual appointment. For the first time, the Pakistan Foreign Office and the veteran diplomats there have been bypassed for this critical station. Again, Mr. Zardari’s name has come up as the man behind the move and his spokesman had to step in to deny it.



So is the delay in the issuing of the order for the German submarines that were almost finalized in December 2008 has something to do with President Zardari’s meeting with President Sarkozy of France in May 2009? Is the appointment of a junior civil servant as the envoy to Paris related to this? And has all of this something to do with the reluctance of the Ministry of Defense in issuing a purchase order for the German submarines?

The delay could also be an attempt at hurting the fast developing military ties between Pakistan and Germany.

Pakistan and Germany have deepened military and security ties over the past years.

Germany has become the fourth country after the United States, Japan and Russia to begin a strategic dialogue with Pakistan.

There are regular political-military talks with Pakistan army officials on security and military issues which include counter- terrorism and training of Pakistani officers in Germany.

Pakistani officers have received military training and education trained in Germany in recent years as part of military education and training programs

Pakistan needs the German Class-214 submarines. India’s military buildup is coupled with renewed aggressiveness toward Pakistan. The Indians are expected to use the naval buildup to bully Pakistan. It is imperative that Islamabad build up its naval defense to maintain peace through deterrence.

© 2007-2009. All rights reserved. AhmedQuraishi.com & PakNationalistsVerbatim copying and distribution of this entire article is permitted in any medium without royalty provided this notice is preserved.
Are French Bribes Stopping Zardari Govt. From Buying German Submarines? - International Analyst Network
 
So Mr AQ is stating that the Germans don't pay bribes ? Actually I see a few Euros in AQ's pocket from the pakistani rep of HDW slowly making its way to his Dubai account.
 
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